Marijuana debate, decriminalized or no?

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Zimzum

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Hello fellow FFXI players. I wanted to bring up a topic for debate. That topic being, Marijuana, should it be decriminalized for recreational and/or medical use. I remember once this topic being brought up by Keits long ago. I want this to be an intelligent debate, with no one line comments like “420 4tw”, “I’m high now!!!”, “My bud is tha shizz...” Please do not bother to reply with stuff like that as you only make us look worse.

In today’s world, where terrorist could even be your next door neighbor, wouldn’t it be wise for law enforcement to focus there funding on find them and not wasting tax payers money on busting the non violent pot smoker? We pay over 1 billion dollars a year to prosecute and jail such people. More than 5 million people have been arrested for marijuana since the early 90’s. At the average cost of roughly $20,000 a year to jail one person, that money could be better used in education, public services, etc. And the taxation of it could possibly pay for a universal health care system for all US citizens or even to keep social security alive. Our government also spends tens of billions of dollars every year fighting a losing drug war. Drug use is on the rise even though the government just keeps throwing more and more money at it.

We allow beer and tobacco to be sold and taxed. Two items which are more harmful health wise to the user than marijuana. No one has ever died from smoking pot directly. Yet every year you hear about some college party where someone drank too much and died from alcohol poisoning. And tobacco use leads to cancer. It used to be thought that smoking a joint was just as harmful as smoking several cigarettes. I have read medical documents on this and there is no real proof or this. Most medical reports tend to lean towards it being safer. Marijuana does not have the hundreds of additives that cigarettes contain so it is hard for me to believe that it is as bad.

About me:

I’m an American. I pay my taxes. And I smoke marijuana. What I put in my body does not affect you in any way, shape, or form other than I do not pay tax on it. I smoke to relax at the end of the day or to make a... bad movie somewhat better^^. I’ve smoked it for the last ten years or so. And I’m not the person big brother wants you to believe about me. I have a job and financial stability. If I could buy the stuff legally, I would. I also play FFXI while stoned (I know people in my LS do not like marijuana) and you would not be able to tell the difference from when I’m sober. I am not one of the people who have to let everyone know how high I am, or even use it as a name like “Sirsmokesalot” and “Imdrunk”. <I do not know these people personally and I am not flaming them, just using there names as examples> IMO people see this and it reflects badly on people like me.

About my Aunt:

She was diagnosed several years ago with progressive multiple sclerosis (MS). Although there are “legal” medicines out there, they simply just don’t work for her pain. And so she resorts to smoking a joint before bed to help her with the pain in her legs. This also leaves her in a state of panic as she does not want to lose her kids to the state if she were to get caught. But what can she do. It is a tough choice for her to make, ether she can have a night of sleep or be up all night with severe pain. People like her, who are incurable, should be entitled to take what they wish without fear of big brother stepping in and playing the “holier than thou” card. There is tons of medical data out there that shows marijuana to be a safe and effective form of medicine.


Well that’s about it for now. I look forward to reading peoples replies whether negative or positive, I don’t care. Just take some time to come up with something that can be backed up.
 
I think some of the major problems the Govt. at large has with this is that there are widely varying medical results and developing a control system to insure its quality.

Cigarettes are one thing, they have terrible shit in them but theyve been around for so long that it's a mute point. But building something like this from the ground up and the regulation police would be all over it.
 
Here's a question, would it be an excuse if someone fucked up while on it? If they were stoned and for some reason or another brought bodily harm to someone else, would someone be held 100% accountable or would they have a plea? The consequences for messing up would have to be as severe as fucking up while drunk. It could NOT be an excuse. End of story.

I'm Canadian myself and I'd vote yes to a bill that outlawed tobacco. Why? Becuase we know it causes cancer and other ailments, then they go waltzing into hospitals to get treated for wounds they willing inflicted on themselves. It's disgusting and people who don't smoke are footing nearly 80% of the bill. However, you're American, so they'd be paying for it on their own, which I find totally acceptable.

How would it be controlled? Like anything there need to be regulations on it, and like anything there will be illigal imports and exports. Who would be in charge of keeping that under control? Would this be government regulated or even endorsed or would it be free business for the private sector? Would there be an age limit? Also, what rights would people who didn't want to be subject to marijuana? Take pregnant women for example. The effects of marijuana are severe on newborns and fetus', so use of it would have to be restricted to certain areas, in which case rights would be infringed upon not only on the users side but on the non users side as well.

Here's one other thing to consider. Would this be a hit to the economy or would it improve? Consider the importers who are making billions selling the stuff, if it were legal to grow it here then they'd be going out of business. PS> I'm not really serious, but it's kind of funny to think of all the miniature drug lords it would put out of business lol.

All in all I just end up asking myself, why give ourselves another gun to shoot ourselves with? We already have tobacco taking lives and the same goes for alchohol. Taking something harmful to ones health and legalizing it for the entire country would be a foolish move and only takes into consideration the opinions of a small group within the population. If they can get the votes, fine. But if I see anyone getting high on my proporty or if I enhale a single fume from someone who is high, there will be hell to pay. They can have their marijuana if they get the votes, but I have just as much right to not be subject to it as they would to use it.
 
Breathing in the smoke from burning leaves isn't very healthy for you. It might be a cure for one problem, but it's also the cause many more problems.
 
I say let it be legal. Medicinal puposes, yes. Victimless act, yes.
Everyone in this world should understand consequences of their actions. Those that don't will likely end up in prison for something worse than smoking herb.

For medical purposes, I think it's a big plus. I know a lot of older people at work that prefer marijuana to any over the counter drug to simmer down their pains...And it ain't no thang. They are perfectly "normal" and responsible people. They understand the consequence of their actions. No harm done.

As for recreational users, why not? I do think there's a difference between marijuana and other street drugs, and I'd say everything else is out of the question. But this, much like having a beer is for the person consuming. You understand what it does and that any subsequent actions are still your own regardless that you are under the influence. Whatever you do while under the influence of anything is your responsibility, period.

If someone smokes something and gets in trouble, that's their problem and they need to own up to it. If they are the type of person that knows they get a little crazy when they smoke, well, they probably shouldn't smoke. I don't see how the actions of a few assholes should ruin it for those of us that can handle ourselves appropriately.

Then again...It doesn't REALLY matter to me if it's legal or not. It doesn't matter what's legal or not. If I want to get high, I will. If someone wants to blow up a building, the fact that it's illegal will not stop them. Might as well make it legal...Safer than drinking. :)
 
Acutie put it in a concise perspective that I would have to agree with. If it works for you, you must be the responsible one when using it.

Marijuana is proven to alter one's judgments, just as is alcohol - so if you go off and get someone killed - your fault, you must serve the time.

As Acutie also stated, I do not want to inhale one vapor of it. I have a large enough problems with people that smoke cigarettes, let alone marijauna.

By the way, for all those that feel it is their God given right to be able to smoke cigarette's, it is my natural born God given right to breathe clean air, so respect non-smoker's rights to clean air.
•What I am trying to say, is get out of the doorways of non-smoking buildings.
•What I am NOT saying is you do not have a right to smoke in an environment that condones smoking. Non-smokers know smoking is allowed before entering such an environment. Thus, a non-smoker does not have to enter said establishment.

As a medically necessary case, that is where the plot thickens. Marijuana, if grown properly probably is a safe alternative pain management. I would like to see this legalized for patients who are willing to make the choice. Waivers, and legal disclaimers aside: it all goes back to choice. If someone would live with the pain rather than smoke, that is their choice. If smoking is a risk they are willing to take, to live pain free, so be it. It should not be up to our government to restrict that kind of choice from our citizens.
 
Just an FYI on this issue. Marlboro has a patent to make Marijuana cigs(Don't know why you'd need a patent must be a filter thing). It's only a matter of time until it's here and legal.
 
Acutie said:
Here's a question, would it be an excuse if someone fucked up while on it? If they were stoned and for some reason or another brought bodily harm to someone else, would someone be held 100% accountable or would they have a plea? The consequences for messing up would have to be as severe as fucking up while drunk. It could NOT be an excuse. End of story.

I'm Canadian myself and I'd vote yes to a bill that outlawed tobacco. Why? Becuase we know it causes cancer and other ailments, then they go waltzing into hospitals to get treated for wounds they willing inflicted on themselves. It's disgusting and people who don't smoke are footing nearly 80% of the bill. However, you're American, so they'd be paying for it on their own, which I find totally acceptable.

How would it be controlled? Like anything there need to be regulations on it, and like anything there will be illigal imports and exports. Who would be in charge of keeping that under control? Would this be government regulated or even endorsed or would it be free business for the private sector? Would there be an age limit? Also, what rights would people who didn't want to be subject to marijuana? Take pregnant women for example. The effects of marijuana are severe on newborns and fetus', so use of it would have to be restricted to certain areas, in which case rights would be infringed upon not only on the users side but on the non users side as well.
Here's one other thing to consider. Would this be a hit to the economy or would it improve? Consider the importers who are making billions selling the stuff, if it were legal to grow it here then they'd be going out of business. PS> I'm not really serious, but it's kind of funny to think of all the miniature drug lords it would put out of business lol.

All in all I just end up asking myself, why give ourselves another gun to shoot ourselves with? We already have tobacco taking lives and the same goes for alchohol. Taking something harmful to ones health and legalizing it for the entire country would be a foolish move and only takes into consideration the opinions of a small group within the population. If they can get the votes, fine. But if I see anyone getting high on my proporty or if I enhale a single fume from someone who is high, there will be hell to pay. They can have their marijuana if they get the votes, but I have just as much right to not be subject to it as they would to use it.
Click to expand...

Valid points, however lets say that you are not smoking the marijuana, but ingesting it in an alternate form, ie. pot brownies? I think people would be more worried about actually absorbing the THC, as opposed to how they absorb it. (btw, I do not smoke pot... anymore)
 
Euphacent said:
Breathing in the smoke from burning leaves isn't very healthy for you. It might be a cure for one problem, but it's also the cause many more problems.
Click to expand...

So is breathing indoor/outdoor air.

Personally i'm of the opinion that a rule for one should be the rule for all. If smoking cigarrettes, drinking alcohol, taking cold medicine, taking asthma medicine (and i use that term loosely as ephedrine is a key ingredient in crystal meth) is ok then so should everything else. Contrarily if those things are bad for your they should be deemed illegal.

Can't have it both ways. Unfortunately most drug law was passed under the guise of prejudice or ignorance.

Interesting fact: Did you know that cocaine was first manufactured in italy, used by sigmond frued regularly, reached epidemic usage/dependancy lvls (5% of american population), and was used to give black dock workers extra pep and increase productivity by white people, then ciminalized due to rampant racism and fear that it "drove white women to black men" and caused an outcry for larger calibur bullets to put down "cocaine crazed negroes" as one regular calibur bullet for the sidearm of the time was apperantly not enough? *<3 the history channel*

Ultimately it seems most drugs caught on and hung on for about 20 years or so and then after more research was done and the effects of a wide generational use were studied was the conclusion reached that they were of no use to society. Name a street drug and i can link it to either A.)America's short attention span. B.) Racism. C.) Ignorance.

Funny how marijuana's been around so long and it's yet to go out of style or have any detrimental effects listed with a 100% agreement between physicians.

In closing i'd add that you hear about abusive alchoholics almost every day. I'd say quite a large percentage of people either know/know of one or two personally.

Drink some beer, beat your wife and kids. Smoke some pot, raid the fridge, get yelled at cos there's no food, and go to the store.

Everything in moderation including moderation.
 
You know i doubt a system would really be that hard to set up.

You act like every single country in the world has it banned and that the USA would be the first country to make it legal...This is a false belief, as it is legal in holland to name but one country. So if one country has managed to set up a system for it being legal then i don't see why the USA can't use a similar system (assuming it was going to be legalised of course). Sure you could argue that holland and the USA are not the same...but if you look at the drinking laws they are pretty similar, so i do not see why the smoking of pot could not be similar either.

I don't really care about it being legal/illegal...so long as no one is blowing it in my face it doesn't affect me.
 
I heard it's not actually legal in Holland, just decriminalized and the authorities couldn't care less about it. Dunno if that's 100% true or not.

Regardless, I think it should be decriminalized.
 
I think the laws are ok as is. Medicinal use? I think you can already do that.

Enough of my taxes go to fixing the drugs that are already currently legal, I don't need anymore going that way even though mariuana never really hurt anybody.

Mariuana Tax? Hmmmmm maybe, that would definitely help.

This forum needs a spell chk. :?
 
What exactly is the penalty for smoking marijuana anyways? Someone I know claimed it was an 80 dollar fine. If that's all then who even cares.

Personally, I don't see the difference between smoking pot and doing any other kind of drug. It's mostly done to get high, right? Meth? LSD? Cocaine? Alcohol? To get High?

Right?

I never knew that filling ones body with poison was a good thing.

Though I suppose you could always use the argument my brother likes to use about prostitution. If it's legal you can control it better right? And hey, then the Bad Dudes™ (drug dealers, pimps, whatever) aren't getting the money and can be spent on good things, right?

Or you could just say it's medical and everything's a-okay.

But hey, what people do to themselves isn't my concern. I mean, I hate you all anyways.
 
If you ever knew someone on, or tried Meth yourself, you'd know theres a huge difference.

Stay away from people who use Meth, and never trust them. Even when you think they are off it, they really arn't.

You can never truely trust someone that has gone over the edge on Meth again. You always have to make sure you know whats going on in their life.

Kinda extreme, but I know enough people on it to know thats about the safest "policy" you can have on them.
 
Hey you might be right, I've never known anyone that's done anything "worse" than marijuana. Atleast no one's admited it. I'm not optimistic enough to believe that anyone isn't a drug addict.

The specifics may be different, but the original intent is the same isn't it? Getting high.

Hell, marijuana is arguably safer than cigarettes. Arguably.
If you do drugs, then marijuana is the best one.

Evil and lesser evil?
Sure thing. But that isn't how it is. Evil, lesser evil, no evil? Is lesser evil the right choice?
 
The difference is when you personally see what it does to you.

One makes you stare at the ceiling for a couple hours.

The other hooks into you and turns you into either a lumbering idiot, or a crazed, murdering madman that see's "bleeding walls" and people chasing them.

And there reallly is no cure for #2. Once you lose them braincells they gone forever.
 
Evil and lesser evil.

I'm not saying they're the same or the results are the same.

But the intent was the same.

Does one hallucinate while high on marijuana? I was unaware that one did, but from comments from a friend it sounds as though you do.

But hey, I've never done any sort of drug in my life so it's not like I know what I'm talking about.
Legal or not, I don't think it even really matters. People will continue to get high regardless.

As long as you're having fun, it shouldn't really matter what you do whatsoever.
 
Far as I know you don't hallucinate on mariuana.

You can however hallucinate if you over do it to the point of not eating just smoking the stuff. But the same thing happens when you overdue alcohol and such.

I think if you didn't eat for a long time you'd hallucinate also. :lol:
 
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