Meeze and the rest of the herd

[Anttaru]

wtf are you talking about? Since when did GS ignore the 200+ regular NMs out there? I dont think the GS actually make as much money using 15 guys to kill Serket for a 9mil drop as they do using

That's kinda off topic but whatever.

3 guys camping Shadows, [20M]
3 guys camping NM gobbue in zi tah, [2M]
6 guys camping LoO [200M]
1 guy camping THF Knife [50M]
2 guys camping giants [10-55M]

Regardless, if some of those guys in those small parties were normal players more gil will stay in game. And don't come to me about solo sellers, i haven't a way to cripple them. What more is there to say ?

Just a reminder, i do not support sellers. I don't care much about RMT, so for me there is no need to hate.

Using the same amount of people its obvious how much more gil they can get their hands on when not taking on HNMs that have much stiffer competition. But since there are other people helping them they can spread their recourses out a whole lot more. When you actully know what the fuck your talking about Anttaru, it becomes really obvious how full of shit you really are.

The HNM and NM that have stiff competetion put out way more in any given month, Kraken club and THF Knife is mini in comparrison.

What Resource are you reffering to ? GS are on 24 hours a day, and are everywhere already. They needn't any help to go places and do the things we do. Assuming they have no skill and knowlege of how to play, is a weakness many of you possess.


.
.
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Gil Sellers playing with ordinary players Result:

-RMT outlets are forced to raise the price of GIL, and my even be forced to create a waiting list for their consumers, all due to shortagest in income (gil staying in game) *Buyers are forced to pay more*

-Gil sellers get their cut. with no reason to flock together. ( Flock of gilsellers =100% gil sold) Enix has faild to destroy them, and we sure as hell cannot. Hate is immature in a very negative state.

SE is not God, but i know they would rather see everyone at peace while they do their thing. Costomers kicking and screaming does not support their bussiness.

Honestly, so many of you are dumb, same with the GS, if this method of approach was utalized regularly, there would be less buyers. That would make the air a little cleaner than it is now. Also SE needs to put more time and money into resolving the issue. Cause deleting a few accounts hasn't done a single thing.

 

[Anttaru]

wtf are you talking about? Since when did GS ignore the 200+ regular NMs out there? I dont think the GS actually make as much money using 15 guys to kill Serket for a 9mil drop as they do using

That's kinda off topic but whatever.

3 guys camping Shadows, [20M]
3 guys camping NM gobbue in zi tah, [2M]
6 guys camping LoO [200M]
1 guy camping THF Knife [50M]
2 guys camping giants [10-55M]

Regardless, if some of those guys in those small parties were normal players more gil will stay in game. And don't come to me about solo sellers, i haven't a way to cripple them. What more is there to say ?

Just a reminder, i do not support sellers. I don't care much about RMT, so for me there is no need to hate.

Using the same amount of people its obvious how much more gil they can get their hands on when not taking on HNMs that have much stiffer competition. But since there are other people helping them they can spread their recourses out a whole lot more. When you actully know what the fuck your talking about Anttaru, it becomes really obvious how full of shit you really are.

The HNM and NM that have stiff competetion put out way more in any given month, Kraken club and THF Knife is mini in comparrison.

What Resource are you reffering to ? GS are on 24 hours a day, and are everywhere already. They needn't any help to go places and do the things we do. Assuming they have no skill and knowlege of how to play, is a weakness many of you possess.


.
.
.
Gil Sellers playing with ordinary players Result:

-RMT outlets are forced to raise the price of GIL, and my even be forced to create a waiting list for their consumers, all due to shortagest in income (gil staying in game) *Buyers are forced to pay more*

-Gil sellers get their cut. with no reason to flock together. ( Flock of gilsellers =100% gil sold) Enix has faild to destroy them, and we sure as hell cannot. Hate is immature in a very negative state.

SE is not God, but i know they would rather see everyone at peace while they do their thing. Costomers kicking and screaming does not support their bussiness.

Honestly, so many of you are dumb, same with the GS, if this method of approach was utalized regularly, there would be less buyers. That would make the air a little cleaner than it is now. Also SE needs to put more time and money into resolving the issue. Cause deleting a few accounts hasn't done a single thing.

 

[Bigboy]

Antaru, you obviously dont have enough GS experience to actually know where they are or how they act to really speak on this. All you've shown me is how niave you are to the whole thing.

Your numbers are innacurate, and your reasoning unsound. Since everyone else seems to get it, I see no reason to discuss this with you any further. Its been fun, but this brick wall competition can pretty much die here.

 

[Mirewen]

Idk, I call one of my friends Mac... that is because hes Scottish... He calls me Mc (pronounced Mick) because I'm 1/2 Irish. Doesn't always have to mean "MacDaddy" or whatever the hell you want to call it.

 

[Anttaru]

Antaru, you obviously dont have enough GS experience to actually know where they are or how they act to really speak on this. All you've shown me is how niave you are to the whole thing.

GS experience ? This is an irrelavant issue concerning basic common sense, boy.

- Everyone knows where there are, and needn't know where every single last one of them is to know what's happening.

Your numbers are innacurate, and your reasoning unsound. Since everyone else seems to get it, I see no reason to discuss this with you any further. Its been fun, but this brick wall competition can pretty much die here.

Everyone as in who ? The haters ? or really everyone ? Oh right to you it seems so.

I said "Numbers that looks like this" Not this is the actual number. Any fool would know if 3 out of 10 were Gil sellers, 80% would stay in game, vice versa is still better than 100% RMT. It dosn't matter what the number is lol, the effect remains the same.

Reason why i even checked this thread every other day to begin with, is to see if anyone would back you up. From a different point of view it's easy to understand boath sides. You could have ended this at any time, makes no difference to me. All you did for yourself is expose your lack of, again, common sense by asking me for accurate numbers, as if that would make a difference in fair share activity.

*Dissapointed*

 

[Ugotjacked]

dude dont let these guys get you down man. Meeze, and all the other internet kids have nothing to do. The worst you can do is acknowledge them online. its like feeding a stray puppy its just gonna keep coming back. Most these people have no lives and cut on you because they are jealous of yours. Just fuck your beautiful wife and afterwards think of meeze and say to yourself "I feel bad for that guy because hes jacking off tonight"

 

[Bigboy]

/brickwall

Antaru, its a simple concept that has been repeated more than a few times this thread. When you give a group more people, reguardless of how many shares there become, it can create more profit. When people fight NMs the number of people present change to reflect the difficulty of the monster, and the value of the item. If you take 30 GS that make 100 Million gil a day, and you add 15 normal people helping them when they can, it opens up new modes of making gil more mobs can be fought at once andinformation is passed from casual player to GS they might not have had, like when Colbwa taught a group how to do sky.

Argue it till you are blue in the face, but those are the facts. GS make more money with aid, otherwise they wouldn't accept it. You speak of common sense, yet that somehow eluded you...

 

[Drewtaru]

The only way a GS can make more money, is if people serve them for free.

In terms of HNM camping (which this whole thing revolves around) the gil seller gets the same even share as they would if they were with a party of sellers. This is why it makes no difference to the seller who they play along side.

A) The worth of a high priced drop gets consumed by RMT in a single day.

B) The worth of the same high priced drop can be consumed by RMT over a period of time. (Which could take days or weeks depending on the HNM)

- "A" is how it is today. SE has failed to eliminate RMT

- "B" Is closer to the goal. Fear/Hate/Reputation. are all attributes that prevent "B" from happening, which of coarse makes gil cheap to buy.

And sure there other GS out thre playing solo, Above SE's greatest efforts, it's up to everyone who plays the game to create a shortage of RMT prouduce. And it's not going to happen.

Too many people arguing over it, too many people getting accused of arguing over it, too many people getting caught in the middle of a war they don't care about which in turn makes them suspect for feeding RMT money, and most of all, people who actually buy gil.

 

[Drewtaru]

NOTE: This is ANTTARU, i'm visiting my brother using his PC and i forgot to sign in with my account. lol

 

[Shaidalyn]

I have a serious question for you people ......... You say teaming up with a GS pt and camping an NM slows them.
Okay, so... honestly I wonder.. youre 2 normal players in a pt with 4 GS... (o noes!) and you kill...... (I've not been to the AH in weeks..) umm.. -.- you camp some NM that drops an item worth 6mil!
In all honesty.. would you each receive 1 mil? Are GS good on their word for that?
if so.. you just took 2m from RMT.. if theres 600 GS.. thats 100 PT's with 100% benefit.
if you sneak just 2 normal players in.. thats 150PT's with only what, 64% profit?
Now you think damn 150 !
100pt's of 6m/pt all GS(this is for math's sake) is 600M gone to IGE.
150pts of 6m/pt with 2 normal players each is only 576M gone to IGE.

24m may not be a lot to compare to 600m.... but hey, each person got some nice gil too..and gil is gil right?

Thats if GS honor that.. I dunno..

I'm bored.. I've not slept.. and GOD I love math...

 

[Marajade]

More like this:

group of 10 GS.

NM A takes 4 people to claim/kill, and drops 20m
NM B takes 6 people to kill, and drops 30m
NM C takes 2 people, and drops 15m

all 3 are spawning roughly the same time.

They can choose to go for 2 of the three. Obviously, they'll choose to go for the total of 50m instead of 35m or 45m

Now, add 2 real people.
Send 3 GS and 1 to real NM A
send 5 GS and 1 real to NM B
send 2 GS to NM C

They can now get to this NM that they previously would have ignored in favor of the other more profitable ones.

Say they got all claims and drops.

In senario 1, they made 50m. All 50 went to GS, thus out of economy
In scenario 2, they made 50 from NMs A and B, but 10m went to real players. BUT, since the new group could now go for NM C, they add 15m to the pot total, thus While real players took some of the money, they made 5M more than they would have had the 2 real players not been there.

 

[Anttaru]

I have a serious question for you people ......... You say teaming up with a GS pt and camping an NM slows them.
Okay, so... honestly I wonder.. youre 2 normal players in a pt with 4 GS... (o noes!) and you kill...... (I've not been to the AH in weeks..) umm.. -.- you camp some NM that drops an item worth 6mil!
In all honesty.. would you each receive 1 mil? Are GS good on their word for that?
if so.. you just took 2m from RMT.. if theres 600 GS.. thats 100 PT's with 100% benefit.
if you sneak just 2 normal players in.. thats 150PT's with only what, 64% profit?
Now you think damn 150 !
100pt's of 6m/pt all GS(this is for math's sake) is 600M gone to IGE.
150pts of 6m/pt with 2 normal players each is only 576M gone to IGE.

24m may not be a lot to compare to 600m.... but hey, each person got some nice gil too..and gil is gil right?

Thats if GS honor that.. I dunno..

I'm bored.. I've not slept.. and GOD I love math...

Finally someone with a brain.

Everyone including the GS knows, you can't screw over your own party when it comes to the drop. It will effect the relation required to continue hunting with the same set of people. No one is going to try to make a party or alliance with a fresh set of players daily for the sake of hunting, it won't happen.

2 players and 4 GS in a party is only a small example and a good one might i add, for this to effect RMT, it as to happen on a wide scale. Unfortunatly that will not happen because people are dunce and follow those who cast stones. I have seen GS up close, and they are very warry about people who hate on them. This inforces them to stick together.

 

[Bigboy]

Finally someone with a brain.

Everyone including the GS knows, you can't screw over your own party when it comes to the drop. It will effect the relation required to continue hunting with the same set of people. No one is going to try to make a party or alliance with a fresh set of players daily for the sake of hunting, it won't happen.

2 players and 4 GS in a party is only a small example and a good one might i add, for this to effect RMT, it as to happen on a wide scale. Unfortunatly that will not happen because people are dunce and follow those who cast stones. I have seen GS up close, and they are very warry about people who hate on them. This inforces them to stick together.

The numbers don't lie dude. Its plain to see how they benefit more from the help. And your logic would be questionable [if it were right] because they would have no reason to sacrifice their income for other people.

If you think about it, they have everything to gain from the arrangement, and if they didn't they wouldn't do it. If I had to give up the income to buy myself a steak and settle for a hot pocket because of someone I met online, I wouldn't do it, and I can't see anyone else doing it either. People just don't sacrifice their quality of life like that. It'd be one thing if they were millionairs and it meant not buying another BMW this week, but sacrificing money for them most likely means not eating as much as you'd like.

 

[Anttaru]

More like this:

group of 10 GS.

NM A takes 4 people to claim/kill, and drops 20m
NM B takes 6 people to kill, and drops 30m
NM C takes 2 people, and drops 15m

all 3 are spawning roughly the same time.

They can choose to go for 2 of the three. Obviously, they'll choose to go for the total of 50m instead of 35m or 45m

Now, add 2 real people.
Send 3 GS and 1 to real NM A
send 5 GS and 1 real to NM B
send 2 GS to NM C

They can now get to this NM that they previously would have ignored in favor of the other more profitable ones.

Say they got all claims and drops.

In senario 1, they made 50m. All 50 went to GS, thus out of economy
In scenario 2, they made 50 from NMs A and B, but 10m went to real players. BUT, since the new group could now go for NM C, they add 15m to the pot total, thus While real players took some of the money, they made 5M more than they would have had the 2 real players not been there.

Your first example has 12 people in it not 10, but i get the point, and it's not likely to happen.

Adding 2 regular players does not mean the GS would automatically try to expand their horizions. Remember there are odds to be considered, and the greater numbers in the party make success more likely.

Any hunter would tell you it's not common practice to split up the party into small sections to camp, especially HNM. Again, You will decrease the odds of making the catch.

In the Voodoolounge's case, it is the GS that joined them, and the greater number of the LS is regular players. Of coarse this is a Social LS and not a HNMLS but still. It's one of the few places where RMT's very own demise can manifest.

GS still obtain their cut of the shares, only not all at once, which means RMT intake comes to a slow. The total income in a month will show face, and definatly will it show face in a year. This solution will not take shape, the logic is too much for most of you to take in, and for some, the reality of it all is too shocking to "accept". Even though it's just a game.

 

[Anttaru]

The numbers don't lie dude. Its plain to see how they benefit more from the help. And your logic would be questionable [if it were right] because they would have no reason to sacrifice their income for other people.

If you think about it, they have everything to gain from the arrangement, and if they didn't they wouldn't do it. If I had to give up the income to buy myself a steak and settle for a hot pocket because of someone I met online, I wouldn't do it, and I can't see anyone else doing it either. People just don't sacrifice their quality of life like that. It'd be one thing if they were millionairs and it meant not buying another BMW this week, but sacrificing money for them most likely means not eating as much as you'd like.

Foolish ignorance. Boy, this is the last time i'm going to say this. Then please end your debate with me like you said you would.

- They do not Sacrifice income. They are individuals, they can be mixed and matched the same as normal players can. VoodooLounge has been doing this, and i seen it happen before in past a past LS. And to the regular players, the GS are a worthy asset cause they always have the TOD, just the same as any HNMLS. Of coarse they have all been outcasted, and they will remain together. they do not get the drop everyday, but when they do, it's a massive payout. They also figure their payout would be the same if the party was comprised of regular players. You think they are like the borg or something ? 1 mind 1 collective ? They have individual deadlines to make. They would step out of frame to roll with another group, i have seen it many times.

The difference between you and i boy, is i have confronted our subject, and you have not. If you did you would tell us immature stories, like how you cursed one down or took some action to make their day a living hell, which does nothing useful be fan the flame. That is me assuming.

 

[Bigboy]

The difference between you and i boy, is i have confronted our subject, and you have not. If you did you would tell us immature stories, like how you cursed one down or took some action to make their day a living hell, which does nothing useful be fan the flame. That is me assuming.

I don't know what your talking about. I've never talked trash to a GS. I have killed them for attempting to steal and MPK though. If you stopped trying to turn this into how I treat them, and looked at the actual numbers you wouldn't have much of an argument. Before you get into telling me how I play, address the actual numbers.

I don't see why I should end the debate. Other people have posted similar numbers and facts to go along with mine. Address the truth instead of made up facts about me and we might be able to come to a conclusion.

 

[Anttaru]

I don't know what your talking about. I've never talked trash to a GS. I have killed them for attempting to steal and MPK though. If you stopped trying to turn this into how I treat them, and looked at the actual numbers you wouldn't have much of an argument. Before you get into telling me how I play, address the actual numbers.

I don't see why I should end the debate. Other people have posted similar numbers and facts to go along with mine. Address the truth instead of made up facts about me and we might be able to come to a conclusion.

I said "that's me assuming" and you proved me right. There is a greater point to what i have said. It's not worth telling you at this point cause you're supose to have ended this a page ago, like you said you would. And everything i say flys over your head. This time your response is about my silly assumption about you, (which has been confirmed might i add).

You also say other people have said this and that and posted simular numbers when you yourself wanted to see actual numbers, while we were disscussing in theory too. (Just for you i'll add it was for the sake of clearity of common sense)

- You don't see what i'm saying.
- All you say is, what i say is bougus.
- Everytime i lay it out for you, you ignore it. like you just did here. Again.
- You keep refferring to "the numbers" and not saying which numbers you speak of, meanwhile i'm convinced you have no common sense.
-You already brang this brickwall thing you taught me.
-I honest to goodness pity you, and i'm having a hard time not saying anything cause i dislike ignorance.

 

[Bigboy]

If you don't want to look back at the rest of the replies to you to see the numbers I'm talking about, fine, don't but don't act like you don't know those are the ones I'm refering to. I would say this pretty much applies to you too:

- You don't see what i'm saying.
- All you say is, what i say is bougus.
- Everytime i lay it out for you, you ignore it. like you just did here. Again.
-I honest to goodness pity you, and i'm having a hard time not saying anything cause i dislike ignorance.

Show me the Money! Tell me how they don't loose money! Tell me why they would want to get help, if what you say about them is true and getting help actually reduces their income. You still haven't answered me that. How long are you gonna dodge it?

 

[Anttaru]

Show me the Money! Tell me how they don't loose money! Tell me why they would want to get help, if what you say about them is true and getting help actually reduces their income. You still haven't answered me that. How long are you gonna dodge it?

Say we have a 18 GS alliance: against kirin lets say.

Now say everything is fine and peachy and the gil sellers friends who play for fun want to hunt as well.

The alliance get filled up with say 9 GS and 9 Regular players. The seats have been taken up.

"As for the other 9 GS, who are not in the alliance" they need to go find something else to do, "Before the day is over or get nothing"

The GS who are in the alliance with the 9 real players, still recieve the same amount of gil, as they would if it were all GS in the party. And the real players recieve the shares of what would have been the GS gil.
"AT this point you must remember that RMT is infact making less money"

- The GS's in the alliance hand in their gil to RMT, with no loss. They all lost and won the claim before. to be scattered amoungst ordinary players would actually make their job more enjoyable, for them and us.
- GS do not hunt in over populated alliances, only then will they make less gil, when they miss the boat, they go off to attend plan b. The end result in this case would mean RMT recieved half of what they would have. And over time, the amounts IGE recieves through their pipeline would be fragmented and slow.

Some would say, RMT would eventaully get their gil. But the later they recieve their quota, the higher the cost of gil is to the buyer. The GS is a freelance worker, they are not "the IGE". IGE is the company who buys from the gil sellers and sells it back to the public consumer.

 

[Bigboy]

"As for the other 9 GS, who are not in the alliance" they need to go find something else to do, "Before the day is over or get nothing"

Now What about all the money these other 9 make? They may get half of what they could have at Kirin by splitting it evenly, but there are 9 more out there now to camp regular NMs, which rarely take more than 3/mob.

Now if these 9 can make more money than half of what Kirin's drops are valued at. Then They come out way on top, and the amount of gil they sell to IGE will inrease, and they can be cut a larger check for a days work.

Good examples of items with higher value than Kirin drops were already listed previously. Its unlikely GS sell their Osode and I tend to see them wear them instead for increased effectiveness. If they do, then Kirin drops would be difficult to match in a day, but since its extremely unlikely for them to get in a Kirin fight each day, the other days more than make up for it.

In reguards to GS acting as individual contractors... Most work in small groups, and actually do pool their income for a combined sale. There are lots of little cells but it is very rare to find individual GS that have no affiliation with a small business. This is pretty common knowledge, as you kind find strang examples in recent posts by Lyrli [however its spelled] and others that commonly support RMT and interact with them. They pool the gil together and sell it all at once, then the business cuts them all checks for their share.

Once you understand how that works, it would be easy to see how other members of their group would easily become resentful towards one of their coworker's online friends if it were costing them money. Because of this, it would be illogical for any GS to participate in an act that would net them less gains, because it would likely affect their co workers, who would very quickly shun him and stop allowing the friend to come along. However if they benefit, and we are not actually doing harm to RMT through all this, they would completely embrace people willing to help them, as they already do.

From the common sense standpoint you like to bring up, they must be profitting from the interaction with others.