melee / warrior class 101

Fact or Fiction: Using Provoke to pull a mob generates massive hate on you to the point where its really really hard to get it off the puller?
 
Incorrect. Provoke isn't a steady stream of Enmity. It wears off over time.

A Puller can provoke. If the distance from the mobs to camp is far enough, the tank can instantly provoke it right off. If you want to be careful, as the puller, just don't fight for a few seconds.
 
I'd rather someone pull by engaging it, wacking it once with a non ranged weapon, and get hit all the way back to camp than have them pull with a provoke. It can have a bad effect on controlling hate. It does depend on the distance of the pull though.

Edit: As a warrior boomerangs are your friend. No ammo costs and they have a decent range.
 
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Just be sure you have your (M)entor symbol up and make every single macro with /shout lines... Just so the entire zone know's what job ability you are using.

Seriously, Mysticalone. There are quite a few melee tarus that I've seen kick more ass, than their Elvaan and Galka counterparts. Besides, that little "Hee-Yah" that they make during fights, makes 'em even better.
 
Alerith said:
Fact or Fiction: Using Provoke to pull a mob generates massive hate on you to the point where its really really hard to get it off the puller?
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General rule of thumb: 15 seconds. If it's more than 15 seconds to camp, pulling with provoke is fine. If it's less, very likely the mob wont' come off you after a provoke. Provoke + Flash will do it, but why are you pulling with provoke at level 35+?
 
I never liked pulling with Provoke for the lousy range, especially with the new "claiming" rules. But I love the advice Raziella gave me on a seperate thread, and from taking Paladin from 15-33, this has become my guide.

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=24897&page=2

Raziella said:
My hate guide
After you effect a mob (heal another player or attempt to strike), you end up on it's hate list. Think of the hate a mob has for a player as a value that slowly ticks down but never gets to zero (as this would constitute no battle and thus no hate at all). Basically, whoever has the highest number among everyone on the hate list is the one who's going to get attacked.

This explains situations where the mob moves "frantically" because what is actually happening is you have 2 or more people with hate values that are ticking down VERY close to each other and constantly changing who has the highest hate level. You can see this in even a more profound way when a mandragora sleeps a party and it's constantly switching between targets even though no one is hitting it.
Click to expand...

Its more that for the tank to keep hate, needs to keep the hate value higher than everyone elses, or else the mob starts wondering. Provoke does a lot.
 
I like to have a single macro dedicated to this:
/target <bt>
/recast Provoke
/recast Boost
/recast Defender
etc.

It does a couple things. First, it targets your party's claimed mob. This can be useful if you're not pulling -- I hit this macro until I've targeted the mob, then I spam my Provoke macro until it fires from max range (which is why I don't put /p lines in the macro and make myself look silly). This helps to line up the mob and melee faster, enabling the THF to land SA earlier on.

Second, it gives you a status on your abilities whenever you call on it. You can use the CTRL-J window, but I've always liked this method instead.

As a WAR/MNK, try and arrange a pattern of Provoke - 8 secs - Boost - 15 secs - Boost - 7 secs - Provoke again. You can throw a /recast Boost in your Provoke macro and a /recast Provoke in your Boost macro just to keep you updated, but use the /wait #, /echo Use Ability! lines as well.

Good luck!
 
Pulling with provoke doesn't maintain the claim very long. Used to be an issue in Valkurm, but after the patch it shouldn't matter as much.
 
annabelle said:
I like to have a single macro dedicated to this:
/target <bt>
/recast Provoke
/recast Boost
/recast Defender
etc.

It does a couple things. First, it targets your party's claimed mob. This can be useful if you're not pulling -- I hit this macro until I've targeted the mob, then I spam my Provoke macro until it fires from max range (which is why I don't put /p lines in the macro and make myself look silly). This helps to line up the mob and melee faster, enabling the THF to land SA earlier on.

Second, it gives you a status on your abilities whenever you call on it. You can use the CTRL-J window, but I've always liked this method instead.

As a WAR/MNK, try and arrange a pattern of Provoke - 8 secs - Boost - 15 secs - Boost - 7 secs - Provoke again. You can throw a /recast Boost in your Provoke macro and a /recast Provoke in your Boost macro just to keep you updated, but use the /wait #, /echo Use Ability! lines as well.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

yeah, i have all my timers on 1 macro, recast voke ichi and ni, as well as ichi and ni recast on the ichi and ni macros. For agg/zerk i just watch the JA list

voke macro is
/target <bt>
/target <stnpc>
/ja Provoke <lastst>
/p Provoke :: <lastst>
/wait 1
/attack <t> (or just mash the attack key)

target <bt> is for if anyone else already pulled
target <stnpc> so i don't voke the incorrect mob if there is more than one, also lets me voke mobs other than the current target.
provoke <lastst> will let me voke w/e mob i just selected.
attack to engage, since sometimes its a bitch to mash.
 
annabelle said:
I like to have a single macro dedicated to this:
/target <bt>
/recast Provoke
/recast Boost
/recast Defender
etc.

It does a couple things. First, it targets your party's claimed mob. This can be useful if you're not pulling -- I hit this macro until I've targeted the mob, then I spam my Provoke macro until it fires from max range (which is why I don't put /p lines in the macro and make myself look silly). This helps to line up the mob and melee faster, enabling the THF to land SA earlier on.

Second, it gives you a status on your abilities whenever you call on it. You can use the CTRL-J window, but I've always liked this method instead.

As a WAR/MNK, try and arrange a pattern of Provoke - 8 secs - Boost - 15 secs - Boost - 7 secs - Provoke again. You can throw a /recast Boost in your Provoke macro and a /recast Provoke in your Boost macro just to keep you updated, but use the /wait #, /echo Use Ability! lines as well.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Never ever ever have provoke <bt> macro. It can fuck fuck you up when trying to voke a link and leave you with a dead mage.
 
Rambaldi said:
Parties with more than 1 tank would beg to differ. Also, some people will use certain abilities or spells and time it so Provoke is ready right after their usage. Kinda hard to know when Provoke is ready if there is no party line giving at leats the 15 second warning.

I use:

/ja "Provoke" <t>
/wait 15
/p Provoke in 15!
/wait 15
/echo Provoke Ready!
Click to expand...
If its for personal knowledge, then use /echo

And the only time when 2 tanks is beneficial is 2x NIN pre-37, or 2x War/Nin. ANd both those times, its "Voke off me when i get hit" Timeing doesnt matter, since sometimes shadows will last longer than 15 seconds.

When i see PLDs with it at 70+, i want to stab them in the face <,<
 
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