melee's and Utsusemi...

[ds083roadkill]

Plain and simple, what is so fucking hard about keeping up blink in a merit pt? is there some reason what /ma "Utsusemi: Ni" <me> /recast "Utsusemi: Ni" is such a outlandish concept? This is mainly directed as war's, too busy zergressor+ramaging to really care they a AoE toke off thier blink. seriously.

Utsu ichi is exspected too. I dont give a flying shit you lose 4 seconds of dps, do it. When your not getting haste because you havnt used ichi in the last 5-10 minutes, it's your own fucking fault.

nins can do it (well, most), it's thier job. thf's can do it just fine as well. get with it or /boot, god i have lost all patience for this.


*forgive spelling, 5 am >=( *

 

[Caerloc]

Well, i know when i had my newly casted Utsusemi: Ni pissed away by a firespit or vorpal blade or rushing drub or whatever, ichi is pretty fucking far fetched to get off as anything but a thf or a nin, atleast untill i capped my evasion merits and got a few evasion skill gears. But mnk's has it easy that way. Evasion for mnks caps at 256, wich gives 264 with merits, adding a evasion torque and a boxermantle your at 281, wich is better then alot of ninjas out there. But as war, forget about it. Your Utsusemi: Ni gets stripped your not gonna be able to put ichi up. War evasion caps at 225, under the best circumstances your gonna get 225+8+7+10+3 = 253, wich on an IT mob basically wont let you dodge once. So trying to get ichi up after eating a drub or w/e is a lost cause and in most cases the war would be stupid for even trying. Best way to help keep war shadows up is keep Utsusemi: Ni recast down, plain and simple.

This doesnt mean war's shouldnt try to get an ichi up at all. If you just lost your second shadow and Ni timer isnt up, you should be casting ichi, thats a given. But there should be some understanding if the war cant get shadows up after eating a drub or w/e.

It should also be mentioned that the more % of the fight you tank, the harder its gonna be keeping shadows up. So if a war (or a mnk, believe me ) is partying with subpar DD's and gets to tank alot, he is gonna get in trouble.

But in conclusion, saying that Nin and Thf can do it fine, everyone else keep up, just doesnt fly. Thf has A+ Evasion and Parrying and an evasion Jobtrait to boot. Nin has A in evasion and Parrying. War has C and C- respectively. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Zethren]

I think it is all about timing with Ichi. If you don't have a bard or any other type of slow on the monster, yes it can be hard. Some mobs attack so fast it may not be even worth it to try to cast it.

For many mobs though you just have to time it correctly. Casting Ichi AFTER the mob attacks most of the time will not work(as cearloc said if your evasion is crap you won't evade anything) and you'll get hit at around 50-60% causing your spell to be interrupted

Get an idea in your head(or time it via a clock or something) how long it takes the mob to attack. If you time it and cast just about before you get hit, and you get hit within ~20% your casting time you will not be interrupted. Takes some practice to get used to, but very much doable especially when you PT on the same mobs on a regular basis.

 

[Zoolander]

Post above got it right. Evasion has nothing to do with getting ichi up. If you are relying on a miss to help you get ichi up, you fail miserably. Its all about timing. If you know you are gunna take alot of hits as war or mnk or thf or w/e with /nin, start casting ichi after the second shadow is taken and be ready to cancel your current shadows at 50%ish if its Ni thats still up. Plenty of wars do it. Its not hard. I'm pretty sure everyone can count up to 3? And be smart, if you can't handle the hate, then don't take it right at the start.

 

[DarkMagnus]

Yeah what they said, wars aren't going to evade like a ninja or thf, thats why in most cannons u cycle hate.

 

[neophytal]

in cannon:
ni only (unless you are first voke).

sorry, but thats the only way to roll. you'll end up taking more damage in the long run trying to get ichi up because the mob will last longer and you'll end up using more mp.

besides, your mage setup should compliment your melee and subjobs such that you can support it.

side note: monks do get it a little better because of chakra + invigorate merit ability.

 

[Lukas]

I think road is referring more to melee who don't keep shadows up at all times. You know the type that spam ustu only when they are being hacked to bits, thus unnecessarily sponging MP. This is particularly improtant when fighting stuff with blink-able AoE (eg. Puks). Why take damage when you can easily have shadows to absorbs them?

 

[Caerloc]

Post above got it right. Evasion has nothing to do with getting ichi up. If you are relying on a miss to help you get ichi up, you fail miserably. Its all about timing. If you know you are gunna take alot of hits as war or mnk or thf or w/e with /nin, start casting ichi after the second shadow is taken and be ready to cancel your current shadows at 50%ish if its Ni thats still up. Plenty of wars do it. Its not hard. I'm pretty sure everyone can count up to 3? And be smart, if you can't handle the hate, then don't take it right at the start.

Yeah, that part was covered here.

This doesnt mean war's shouldnt try to get an ichi up at all. If you just lost your second shadow and Ni timer isnt up, you should be casting ichi, thats a given.

What i was adressing was this.

Well, i know when i had my newly casted Utsusemi: Ni pissed away by a firespit or vorpal blade or rushing drub or whatever.

Im not condoling being lazy and not counting your shadows, that should be a given. But when your shadows are stripped of you, it isnt always the smartest choice to try and slap up an ichi. Taking some damage is to be expected in a merit-PT, and aslong as your not running your mages dry so they have to rest, skipping ichi might be the better choice.

And as far as hate is concerned, im sure Neo and other black belt mnks can tell you that all we really need to do is autoengage and more often then not we end up tanking. While it doesnt take a genious to realize its not always prudent to fire of a ws if you are struggling with shadows, you cant really ask someone to disengage/turn in a merit party.

On a sidenote, personally i dont really have a problem with tanking as a mnk, i've tanked a few medium sized HNM's like Xolotl, Behemoth, Bune and so on with my MNK. Im not adressing a concern for me personally, but i can certanly understand that some jobs cant always get their ichi up after getting stripped of shadows. And im also saying comparing a WAR with a THF or NIN isnt really fair.

 

[ds083roadkill]

ya elliot said what i was meaning pretty much. when you see *noob1 absorbs the attack for 3 shadows* then proceeds to spam every ja or burn thier tp before recoating utsu.

i say nin can do it (even when not tanking) because they have been doing scine lvl 12. and thf can do it because they rarely steal hate

 

[Khali]

Casting shadows saves ppl's lives. Man.. if you can't afford ninja tools now.. I'm sorry to hear that... Last year near xmas Shihei Toolbag stacks were 200k... they are 60-70k now. ^^; Save a healer's MP by casting shadows. Yes they aren't fullproof (aga's and special mob TP skills). But it doesn't hurt to show that you care by casting shadows. If mnks are willing to go /nin and cast shadows while dealing their dmg.. i don't see why any other job can't do the same. Casting shadows will eventually lead to less downtime which means you get more out of your food which leads to more XP and limit points. Now lets get the astral candy back... I'm tired of having my sushi only last 30 minutes >.>

 

[Skaw]

side note: monks do get it a little better because of chakra + invigorate merit ability.

640~ HP Recast merited chakras, and not a single fucking mage in the game lets me use it. You might as well ignore it as a point, Neophytal.

 

[Disenchanter]

Well, i know when i had my newly casted Utsusemi: Ni pissed away by a firespit or vorpal blade or rushing drub or whatever, ichi is pretty fucking far fetched to get off as anything but a thf or a nin, atleast untill i capped my evasion merits and got a few evasion skill gears. But mnk's has it easy that way. Evasion for mnks caps at 256, wich gives 264 with merits, adding a evasion torque and a boxermantle your at 281, wich is better then alot of ninjas out there. But as war, forget about it. Your Utsusemi: Ni gets stripped your not gonna be able to put ichi up. War evasion caps at 225, under the best circumstances your gonna get 225+8+7+10+3 = 253, wich on an IT mob basically wont let you dodge once. So trying to get ichi up after eating a drub or w/e is a lost cause and in most cases the war would be stupid for even trying. Best way to help keep war shadows up is keep Utsusemi: Ni recast down, plain and simple.

This doesnt mean war's shouldnt try to get an ichi up at all. If you just lost your second shadow and Ni timer isnt up, you should be casting ichi, thats a given. But there should be some understanding if the war cant get shadows up after eating a drub or w/e.

It should also be mentioned that the more % of the fight you tank, the harder its gonna be keeping shadows up. So if a war (or a mnk, believe me ) is partying with subpar DD's and gets to tank alot, he is gonna get in trouble.

But in conclusion, saying that Nin and Thf can do it fine, everyone else keep up, just doesnt fly. Thf has A+ Evasion and Parrying and an evasion Jobtrait to boot. Nin has A in evasion and Parrying. War has C and C- respectively. You are comparing apples to oranges.

I think apples taste better.

 

[Pompidou]

640~ HP Recast merited chakras, and not a single fucking mage in the game lets me use it. You might as well ignore it as a point, Neophytal.

Yeah, I don't think enough monks regularly use chakra to allow whms to get a routine down for it. I remember when I was a newbie whm and I first partied with a paladin - it was in yuhtunga jungle - and he told me not to cure him. You can imagine my confusion. I know when I'm in a party with monks, I forget they have chakra. Most monks don't use any JAs that don't boost damage in some way. Most melees in general for that matter. I think if I partied with you, Skaw, after reading this, I'd have a good chance of remembering "he wants to actually use Chakra", but if I partied with any other monk, I'd have to revert to my auto-attack and AFK battle strategy assumption I put unknown melees under until they prove otherwise.

I actually only assume the bare basics of any job I party with. I assume the blm, if there's a 2nd will only cast nukes. I assume the rdm will only cast refresh. I assume the whm will only cure, etc. This way, I'm always pleasantly surprised.

 

[Shaunessy]

640~ HP Recast merited chakras, and not a single fucking mage in the game lets me use it. You might as well ignore it as a point, Neophytal.

At least your mages care. I can be stuck with slow until it wears even though I am saying {Slow} in party chat with auto-translate. Funny, some even don't believe me when I say that it takes almost 9 seconds for me to swing with it on. Plus there is always a BRD or 2 that will say, "But I have you hasted already^^"

 

[Excalibur]

640~ HP Recast merited chakras, and not a single fucking mage in the game lets me use it. You might as well ignore it as a point, Neophytal.

Hell yeah man. I was always so pissed cause the damn whm's were always on top of shit so I never got a chance to use my chakra, and I know it would have saved mp. Definately know what you mean.