/agree
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I gotta agree with the people here who say that PLD is the best tank, sorry Mithe. However, it doesn't make them the ONLY tank. Just like WHM is the best healer, it doesn't make them the ONLY healer. There are other jobs that can tank quite well, however PLD WAS DESIGNED to be a tank and therefore, by default, will be the best one of the group.
As for Mithe being a bad WAR/NIN... well Mithe is in my ls and I've heard nothing but good things about him really, I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just saying if it's true, it's very uncharictaristic cuz he really is good at his job.
And Mithe-y, sweetie, you gotta calm down. You're not going to get your point across by cursing at people ~_^
As for Mithe being a bad WAR/NIN... well Mithe is in my ls and I've heard nothing but good things about him really, I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just saying if it's true, it's very uncharictaristic cuz he really is good at his job.
And Mithe-y, sweetie, you gotta calm down. You're not going to get your point across by cursing at people ~_^
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Tomasello said:
There's no reason why WAR can't DD -and- tank. They can do MORE damage if they're strictly DD, but they can tank at the cost of lesser dmg. They are capable of taking the same dmg (or less in some cases) than a PLD. Their means of holding hate better are utsusemi (with /nin) and their HIGHER DAMAGE capability.
Really. Don't knock it till you've seen it. The only problem is the rarity of WAR/NIN who are geared to tank, and of the few WARs in the upper levels that I know, only one was able to tank that well. He was JP though.
PLD are not the best tanks, if you want to get into that debate... for every 1 mob you can name that "only" PLD can tank, I can name 3 more that NIN can tank 10x better. And in the endgame, NOTHING can compete with a WAR with utsu:Ni, as far as damage dealing and alternatively sponging damage at the same time.
You are missing our Point. We are saying that a War can Tank and can DD. We are also saying Nin's can Tank. You should consider reading the Thread.
What we do Say though is that IN A PICK UP PARTY A PALADIN TANK IS THE SAFEST CHOICE. Or do you not agree ?
Tomasello wrote:
Which proves my point. War/nin is a good DD but he pails in comparison to a PLD. They should stick to DD and backup tank when required.
And he is RIGHT from a Tanking Perspective a Paladin is a Better Tank than a War/Nin. This is a Proven Point.
Are you reading what you are Writing ?
What we do Say though is that IN A PICK UP PARTY A PALADIN TANK IS THE SAFEST CHOICE. Or do you not agree ?
Tomasello wrote:
Which proves my point. War/nin is a good DD but he pails in comparison to a PLD. They should stick to DD and backup tank when required.
And he is RIGHT from a Tanking Perspective a Paladin is a Better Tank than a War/Nin. This is a Proven Point.
Are you reading what you are Writing ?
Ellah said:
I agree... but a good THF in the party can change this.
If I plant 400-600 damage on that NIN or WAR... That mob isn't moving. And If the party is properly performing SC's and MB's, it does't live long enough to go anywhere. =]
On a side note... I could do the same with a PLD, and then the BLM's and RNG's can really go buckwild. But PLD's don't seem to want, or need us THF's, and think SATA is too much work to matter.
So being a THF, and having MY best intrests in mind... I gotta vote WAR/NIN, then NIN/WAR
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It's a similar reason cannon parties rock. All out damage.
I'd rather kill faster than have a shield and one less DD
PT #1: WAR BLM WHM RDM THF RNG
PT #2: PLD BLM WHM RDM THF RNG
Which ya think'll kill faster? Oh and don't forget more SC opportunity. WAR never need to sit and lose their TP.
I'd rather kill faster than have a shield and one less DD
PT #1: WAR BLM WHM RDM THF RNG
PT #2: PLD BLM WHM RDM THF RNG
Which ya think'll kill faster? Oh and don't forget more SC opportunity. WAR never need to sit and lose their TP.
Correct you are, bastage who stole my normal Internet Handle,
But I believe we have left the THF out of this Discussion because not every Party has a THF. Whereas every Party does have a Tank. So really, counting on something that's not guaranteed is not the Way of the Wise Warrior, neh, little Grasshopper who stole my normal Internet Handle.
But I believe we have left the THF out of this Discussion because not every Party has a THF. Whereas every Party does have a Tank. So really, counting on something that's not guaranteed is not the Way of the Wise Warrior, neh, little Grasshopper who stole my normal Internet Handle.
Thank you, Svina.
And by the way, everybody, as I said before, feel free to go here- http://www.qcdn.org/viewtopic.php?t=2519
There is the more detailed post, lie-free, which will explain how it really went. This entire thread by Toma is one big ass lie, as I said before, to try and cover his ass.
And by the way, everybody, as I said before, feel free to go here- http://www.qcdn.org/viewtopic.php?t=2519
There is the more detailed post, lie-free, which will explain how it really went. This entire thread by Toma is one big ass lie, as I said before, to try and cover his ass.
Svina said:
Amen to that..
As a puller, that is one more "mage" I need to wait for. And is it just me, or do PLD's never seem to use juice? I know a BRD and RDM can refresh you... but before that is avail?
Idk... Yes PLD's are hate holding machines. Yes, they are the safest tank (as long as I am not there SATAing on someone else).
But I'll take the high dmg, fast exp party.
Maybe that is why my static is:
WAR/NIN
DRK/WAR
RDM/BLM
WHM/SMN
THF/NIN-WAR (whatever I feel like)
BLM/WHM- Still looking for this one..
I guess here it really boils down to Preference. I like Safer Parties more than Cannon Parties.
Just my Preference. Some People like Cannon Parties. Not my Favorite Choice of Leveling though.
Just my Preference. Some People like Cannon Parties. Not my Favorite Choice of Leveling though.
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I think what people are trying to get across is it's all about preference.
Some people will want a PLD, some will want a WAR. But this difference of oppinion is what makes the game work, so you have the choice to do one or the other. If EVERY tank was a PLD or every one of them was a WAR, there wouldn't be many options or room for growth and change. Every party would be pretty much be the same and you'd never see how one could be better than the other. There's a reason why SE put so many Melee classes in the game, for this ever changing revolution of jobs in your pt. If they wanted you to have the same jobs in every pt, then the only jobs available would be the first 6.
Besides, 99.9% of the time it's the PLAYER behind the job that makes the job work, not the job itself.
Some people will want a PLD, some will want a WAR. But this difference of oppinion is what makes the game work, so you have the choice to do one or the other. If EVERY tank was a PLD or every one of them was a WAR, there wouldn't be many options or room for growth and change. Every party would be pretty much be the same and you'd never see how one could be better than the other. There's a reason why SE put so many Melee classes in the game, for this ever changing revolution of jobs in your pt. If they wanted you to have the same jobs in every pt, then the only jobs available would be the first 6.
Besides, 99.9% of the time it's the PLAYER behind the job that makes the job work, not the job itself.
how about a reply from the whm in mithes pty
hey syon here first off mithe is bending the truth. sry if im not using caps and such or correct grammer but i hope u get my point. i have never had a prob using etudes in a pty before so i do so if the tasnk has high hp. so i get an invite to this party i take it cause i recently deleved and wanted to get to 58 hopefully. pty lv randge was 54-58 im not used to that nut i dont turn down invite because in my opinion exp is exp if the puller is constantly pulling it wont be so bad. leader chooses to goto boyada tree.
again some of the mobs r too low at 57 but i still go with it. started off casten buffs like normal the regen of course on tank. what mithe didnt tell you was that the sam in our pty seemed like he was taking more damage then the tank at times so was hate control an issue there seems so to me.
so i wast mp on the tank and the sam curing both. and i always use cure 3. i never use cure 4 unless its absolutly necessary. i admit the first few battles was my fault for using the etudes but as u may or may not know etudes do not take that long to cast. i do 2 etudes and mithe is at half health. so i have to cure him. by the time etude is over mithe has 200 hp shall i use cure 3 no i dont want him to die as i said to mithe. so i cast cure 4. we win the first few battles so i decide to get rid of the etudes all together. i mean this guy needs more curing then im used to. plus on top of that i have to regen and cure the sam as well because at the start of the battle it seems that he is tanking by the damage he is getting. so i ask who is the tank? mithe replies he is. so next battle comes... sam again taking damage like he is the tank. so i cure both burning mp. then mithe sais to rdm (and btw thx for backing me up tom) cast slow. and the rdm does exactly that every battle after. and im not sure how or why but an argument ensues about how pld's r better and wars suck i didnt say a thing in the argument cuz hey im no expert. but in my opinion i have had an eaiser time as healer with a pld as tank. so next battle is started and the blm casts water 3 only once (he wasnt spamming it) and he gets hate immediatly. gets smacked with alot of damage. then mithe comments about his tanking comparing it to the black mage damage. then argument continues between rdm and mithe. so i see this as a pty that isnt going to work out very well if they are going to continue to argue. blm said he had to leave at that point and i ask him for a warp 2 and leave with him. rdm leaves as well. btw if i didnt mention the rdm was curing as well to help keep the tank alive even with both our cure three's he stayed at 3/4 health i'm not an expert on tanking but i dont see that as a good tank. im not speaking of all the war /nin out there but mithe was just taking too much damage. now the issue of sounding like a 9 year old. why does the post about sounding like a 9 year old come before i even get to tell my side of the story? and mithe's topic is avoid syon and tom like the plague.
why? because of one bad party experience? this is the first time i have partied with mithe and he cant say how i perform or will perform in another party with a diffrent setup or even the same setup. i consider myself a great whm that tries my damn hardest in any pty setup even ones i am not used too. i try to adapt to any situation in an exp pty. but this just wasn't working out. if theyre wasnt any arguing i even woulda stayed for more xp. i always listen to any party members info on how i can be a better whm. but if im doing exactly as the tank asks and he doesnt even explore the fact that he is wrong in any way and instead flames me and the rdm. you cant possibly tell anyone to stay away from me because of your bad experience of me.
hey syon here first off mithe is bending the truth. sry if im not using caps and such or correct grammer but i hope u get my point. i have never had a prob using etudes in a pty before so i do so if the tasnk has high hp. so i get an invite to this party i take it cause i recently deleved and wanted to get to 58 hopefully. pty lv randge was 54-58 im not used to that nut i dont turn down invite because in my opinion exp is exp if the puller is constantly pulling it wont be so bad. leader chooses to goto boyada tree.
again some of the mobs r too low at 57 but i still go with it. started off casten buffs like normal the regen of course on tank. what mithe didnt tell you was that the sam in our pty seemed like he was taking more damage then the tank at times so was hate control an issue there seems so to me.
so i wast mp on the tank and the sam curing both. and i always use cure 3. i never use cure 4 unless its absolutly necessary. i admit the first few battles was my fault for using the etudes but as u may or may not know etudes do not take that long to cast. i do 2 etudes and mithe is at half health. so i have to cure him. by the time etude is over mithe has 200 hp shall i use cure 3 no i dont want him to die as i said to mithe. so i cast cure 4. we win the first few battles so i decide to get rid of the etudes all together. i mean this guy needs more curing then im used to. plus on top of that i have to regen and cure the sam as well because at the start of the battle it seems that he is tanking by the damage he is getting. so i ask who is the tank? mithe replies he is. so next battle comes... sam again taking damage like he is the tank. so i cure both burning mp. then mithe sais to rdm (and btw thx for backing me up tom) cast slow. and the rdm does exactly that every battle after. and im not sure how or why but an argument ensues about how pld's r better and wars suck i didnt say a thing in the argument cuz hey im no expert. but in my opinion i have had an eaiser time as healer with a pld as tank. so next battle is started and the blm casts water 3 only once (he wasnt spamming it) and he gets hate immediatly. gets smacked with alot of damage. then mithe comments about his tanking comparing it to the black mage damage. then argument continues between rdm and mithe. so i see this as a pty that isnt going to work out very well if they are going to continue to argue. blm said he had to leave at that point and i ask him for a warp 2 and leave with him. rdm leaves as well. btw if i didnt mention the rdm was curing as well to help keep the tank alive even with both our cure three's he stayed at 3/4 health i'm not an expert on tanking but i dont see that as a good tank. im not speaking of all the war /nin out there but mithe was just taking too much damage. now the issue of sounding like a 9 year old. why does the post about sounding like a 9 year old come before i even get to tell my side of the story? and mithe's topic is avoid syon and tom like the plague.
why? because of one bad party experience? this is the first time i have partied with mithe and he cant say how i perform or will perform in another party with a diffrent setup or even the same setup. i consider myself a great whm that tries my damn hardest in any pty setup even ones i am not used too. i try to adapt to any situation in an exp pty. but this just wasn't working out. if theyre wasnt any arguing i even woulda stayed for more xp. i always listen to any party members info on how i can be a better whm. but if im doing exactly as the tank asks and he doesnt even explore the fact that he is wrong in any way and instead flames me and the rdm. you cant possibly tell anyone to stay away from me because of your bad experience of me.
/em dies from being crushed by text blob.
I see your Point to a Degree. If you do not do well while in a First Party with someone, chances are they will not want to party with you again.
It is a sad Human Truth that we remember the Bad Things over the Good Things, and the only way to avoid that is to be really Good at all Times.
I see your Point to a Degree. If you do not do well while in a First Party with someone, chances are they will not want to party with you again.
It is a sad Human Truth that we remember the Bad Things over the Good Things, and the only way to avoid that is to be really Good at all Times.
We had the same exact party setup the night before with limitless exp chains. The only spots that changed were yours and the RDMs and the BLMs. The BLM was better, but you guys were horrible. Tell me logically how it could be my fault if I'm doing the same thing I did the night before with constant exp and 0 downtime. Of course it's my fault, right? I'm a warrior tank, it's GOT to be my fault.
So, yea, you're right, it was YOUR fault. Not just the first few battles, but you kept doing the same thing. I'll go ask the other people of the party to post. They can tell everybody how I was exactly 1 hp multiple times because you weren't paying attention or doing your job, and you still had next to full mana. Come on. Tell me how it's my fault. Maybe I should e-mail SE and tell them it's not fair that I take damage when I get hit and utsusemi isn't up. Holy crap, that's total imbalance! I mean, my white mage can't go cook dinner and do absolutely nothing. That's just injustice! He has to actually work!
So, yea, you're right, it was YOUR fault. Not just the first few battles, but you kept doing the same thing. I'll go ask the other people of the party to post. They can tell everybody how I was exactly 1 hp multiple times because you weren't paying attention or doing your job, and you still had next to full mana. Come on. Tell me how it's my fault. Maybe I should e-mail SE and tell them it's not fair that I take damage when I get hit and utsusemi isn't up. Holy crap, that's total imbalance! I mean, my white mage can't go cook dinner and do absolutely nothing. That's just injustice! He has to actually work!
how did i have full mp if i cure 4'd u? and i wasnt doing the same thing over and over again. that would not make any sense. i stopped using the etudes and you know it. t\yeah u did hit 1 hp a few times i dont deny that. thaty was when i was using the etudes.
No. We had a WHM/BLM. Even without ballad he never had to stop because he used Cure III consistently from the time the battle started to the time it stopped to negate any damage I would take and not pull hate.
plus i never said it was your fault because of the choice of job / sub. im just saying that was too much damage u were taking. and u say u did the same thing the night before. just because u did that the night before doesnt mean that it will be the same the next night u didnt have the same people u must accept that everyone doesnt play the way your "great pty" went. if they were so good form a static with them so you wont have that problem. but you cant expect everyone to play the same even if its the same jobs.
M
masterorion
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Ezikiel said:Ellah said:
I agree... but a good THF in the party can change this.
If I plant 400-600 damage on that NIN or WAR... That mob isn't moving. And If the party is properly performing SC's and MB's, it does't live long enough to go anywhere. =]
On a side note... I could do the same with a PLD, and then the BLM's and RNG's can really go buckwild. But PLD's don't seem to want, or need us THF's, and think SATA is too much work to matter.
So being a THF, and having MY best intrests in mind... I gotta vote WAR/NIN, then NIN/WAR
first of all id like to say BS to this. SATA isnt all that. it helps but its not that great. there are times that i have to provoke to get it off of the opposite person even though sata was used. a good mb would peel of a mob like it was nothing.and im not talking the little piddly freeze spell. im talking BURST or fireaga4
i would put one million gil up as a bet that i can hold hate on a mob better on my own head to head against a war AND thf using sata.
yes cannon pts are great, however, ive seen many times in onzonzo the mob running around throughout everyone in the pt attacking whoever becasue the nin lost hate. and that was a all jpn pt btw
and also to ezikiel, war never sit and rest to lose tp....thats fine and dandy, however, the puller doesnt necessarily wait for the pld to be ready. puller will always wait for whm to be ready before worrying about anyone else
preference is preference...cannon pts are great xp in short time but they are more dangerous because it is easier for nin/war or war/nin to lose hate and if you dont think so i would be happy to prove this to u by showing u first hand.
safe pts- well that speaks for itself. its safe. depending on the pt you could gainas much xp as a cannon pt or moderate xp. ive been in a pt with 3 rng, brd, rdm and me (pld) and got 2k xp within 20 mins. and the brd was puller.
ramble ramble ramble---sorry
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