MND? Explain please.

[Passions]

Not 1 of you whms mensiond how mnd effects enhancing magic skill which increases barspell potency tisk tisk


And damn you noob whms that don't wanna buy barfira or watra or cast it ever "it don't make a difference" cry moar

Peace
Panispass

 

[Tristam Green]

Not 1 of you whms mensiond how mnd effects enhancing magic skill which increases barspell potency tisk tisk


And damn you noob whms that don't wanna buy barfira or watra or cast it ever "it don't make a difference" cry moar

Peace
Panispass

lol i concur i'm lucky stine's such a damn good whm, and throws down the enhancing spells and bar-ra spells right as the puller gets back to the camp...

 

[Skaw]

Not 1 of you whms mensiond how mnd effects enhancing magic skill which increases barspell potency tisk tisk

Probably because it doesn't. It's only based off Enhancing skill.

 

[Kotsu]

With the exception of Shining/Seraph Strike, and Sunburst/Starburst(Which is MND *or* INT, not both,) STR is always the better stat to pile up. But those skills are elemental, and STR has no bearring on elemental skills(unless it's a secondary mod.)

lolBlack Halo is Mind and Strength modifiers.

 

[Kotsu]

Probably because it doesn't. It's only based off Enhancing skill.

QFT X.x;; If you want more potent bar-spells; buy my Blessed Briault from me. I have macro's to switch between nobles, blessed briault and once I get it I'll set up my Clerics.

 

[Skaw]

lolBlack Halo is Mind and Strength modifiers.

And it's not elemental, so STR is always be better stat to use. Thats what I was talking about.

Elemental skills ignore the STR/VIT difference, so STR isn't a "Primary" modifier on them.

 

[Uzor]

Don't get me wrong, you're right, sitting at anything less than full MP, you will "waste" the full potency if you don't use lots of +MND gear. However, I've added extra MND before and it's not worthwhile to me. Perhaps on your RDM, it is, but on WHM it's barely noticeable except for on Cure IV to a certain extent and Cure V which I rarely use either. It's not worth the gil to buy +MND equip just for that nor the inventory space.

Luckily I'm both WHM and RDM. And no, it doesn't really do anything for healing on RDM. It only affects Cure V. MND doesn't do anything to slightly increase the curees past their soft cap, like, say, healing for 33 instead of 30 on Cure. That's all due to Healing Magic being high enough to break a "tier", similar to Blue Magic damage having "tiers". Every time you break a tier, your cures will get a boost.

Adding 3MND to every single extra HP cured becomes vastly overated. I have +MND from full blessed (minus the Body since +10% cure potency > +7MND), AF+1 hands, and cap, yet the increase I get on normal Cure III's is minimal at 75. Cure IV I can see a slightly larger improvement, but still not enough to make it worthwhile. Cure V is the only time extra MND will shine and it's not worth the extra purchase unless you plan on enfeebling often, it's full time use gear or have other uses (RDM, MNK, etc.). The extra money wasted can be put to far better uses like getting +MP gear or hMP gear. Really, if you are hardpressed to get the most out a cure because without it, survival is minimal, there is something wrong. There are very few situations where it would be necessary to do so if any at all.

Re: Curing undead.
Don't bother. Although I don't know if MND effects the damage dealt by curing undead, I wouldn't waste the MP. You'll get far more damage out of divine or elemental magic.

Its not 3 MND for every HP healed. 3 MND actually adds 4,5 extra HP to your Cure V. I'm sitting at roughly 140 MND, which adds 210 HP to my Cure V's. Stacked with 291 healing magic, adding 97 to my Cure V's, it gives me (430+97+210)x1.2 = 737x1.2 = 884. However, the formula is slightly wrong, and I actually heal for 842 with my gear. Adding Medicine Ring to the formula, I heal for over 900. I'd actually say MND is highly underrated for a WHM, at least if you're involved in end-game activities, such as Jailer of Love, where spells can do over 1000 damage, and that's with Shell V and bar-spells with a 15MDB modifier from merits and briault, and pantaloons.

Although I believe MND is slightly more beneficial to me, due to being a WHM and RDM, and both have use out of it from healing magic and enfeebling magic.

 

[Bajaratt]

Not 1 of you whms mensiond how mnd effects enhancing magic skill which increases barspell potency tisk tisk


And damn you noob whms that don't wanna buy barfira or watra or cast it ever "it don't make a difference" cry moar

Peace
Panispass

As Skaw already said, MND does nothing for bar-spells.

And here's some proof:

No +MND, 90 fire resistance from barfira

+27 MND, still only 90 fire resistance

 

[Uzor]

And no, it doesn't do anything for it stat-wise. Wheither or not it affects POTENCY, though (similar to Blessed Briault), is something I'm not sure of. Would be nice to try out in Ballista sometime.

I somehow doubt it do, but its possible.

 

[Bajaratt]

Luckily I'm both WHM and RDM. And no, it doesn't really do anything for healing on RDM. It only affects Cure V. MND doesn't do anything to slightly increase the curees past their soft cap, like, say, healing for 33 instead of 30 on Cure. That's all due to Healing Magic being high enough to break a "tier", similar to Blue Magic damage having "tiers". Every time you break a tier, your cures will get a boost.


Its not 3 MND for every HP healed. 3 MND actually adds 4,5 extra HP to your Cure V. I'm sitting at roughly 140 MND, which adds 210 HP to my Cure V's. Stacked with 291 healing magic, adding 97 to my Cure V's, it gives me (430+97+210)x1.2 = 737x1.2 = 884. However, the formula is slightly wrong, and I actually heal for 842 with my gear. Adding Medicine Ring to the formula, I heal for over 900. I'd actually say MND is highly underrated for a WHM, at least if you're involved in end-game activities, such as Jailer of Love, where spells can do over 1000 damage, and that's with Shell V and bar-spells with a 15MDB modifier from merits and briault, and pantaloons.

Although I believe MND is slightly more beneficial to me, due to being a WHM and RDM, and both have use out of it from healing magic and enfeebling magic.

Unless you're the only healer in your group, there's going to be someone else at least tossing out a cure 3 to cap off any remaining damage from those spells. It's just an e-peen thing more than practicality, you're never going to be the only healer in endgame and unless that monster is using chainspell, you're going to have enough time to throw out a cure 3 yourself heal people up.

I don't think MND is underrated at all, really. It has a single use, for a desperation spell; and it's a lot of effort to constantly swap out your mp gear for +mnd gear as you spend your mp; then swap it back in when you rebuild that mp. I don't really feel it's worth it, so I don't bother with it beyond the gear that I wear for the other stats that happens to have +mnd on it.

It's nice that you're stacking that much for your cure 5, but it doesn't mean that a whm who doesn't throw on as much mnd as they can get is really missing out on much.

 

[Uzor]

Unless you're the only healer in your group, there's going to be someone else at least tossing out a cure 3 to cap off any remaining damage from those spells. It's just an e-peen thing more than practicality, you're never going to be the only healer in endgame and unless that monster is using chainspell, you're going to have enough time to throw out a cure 3 yourself heal people up.

I don't think MND is underrated at all, really. It has a single use, for a desperation spell; and it's a lot of effort to constantly swap out your mp gear for +mnd gear as you spend your mp; then swap it back in when you rebuild that mp. I don't really feel it's worth it, so I don't bother with it beyond the gear that I wear for the other stats that happens to have +mnd on it.

usually am the only healer on Jailer of Love. The second WHM is usually in the summon alliance

As a matter of fact, I'm usually the only WHM in most end-game related activities. Including, but not limited to, Salvage, Sea and pop NM's.

And yes, Cure III is and always will be your main source of heal. Yes, Cure V is a desperation spell. However, it is highly usefull to have that one as strong as possible if, say, the PLD gets hit with a 1000 Thundaga III, since it is more potent and better HP/MP wise then Cure III.

edit: in the off chance that we actually DO have 2 WHMes in main alliance, the second WHM is, at love, usually completely useless since the tanks are fully healed before the other WHM have chance to react. So its never really wasted

 

[Bajaratt]

You don't have any red mages or bards there either? Hell, the paladin's can't throw out cures for themselves to regain some of that hate they just lost? I said you're not the only healer, not that you're the only whm.

 

[Lukas]

And no, it doesn't do anything for it stat-wise. Wheither or not it affects POTENCY, though (similar to Blessed Briault), is something I'm not sure of. Would be nice to try out in Ballista sometime.

I somehow doubt it do, but its possible.

I am also slightly skeptical.

And that Cure V formula is wrong. After you reach a certain threshold, or "cap" if you will, you start to get slightly diminished results (but still enough to substantiate a MND swap-in). I think that this cap was around 690-ish. Also, the formula does not calculate VIT which also modifies Cure V numbers.

 

[Uzor]

You don't have any red mages or bards there either? Hell, the paladin's can't throw out cures for themselves to regain some of that hate they just lost? I said you're not the only healer, not that you're the only whm.

Naturally, yes. If they get hit by lower spells, I let them recover their own HP to regain some hate. On spells such as Thundaga III, I find its better to just Cure V them and let them cure any of the HP that Cure V did not cure. The RDM is mainly there to refresh and cure me if I get hit by spells when I run in spell range in order to throw bar-spells up.

It just requires some easy communication in order to void over-curing. When everyone knows eachother, its easily avoidable. In Salvage, it is also easily avoidable, especially when you don't have any PLD's Most end-game events it is easily avoidable, unless you have a group that refuse to listen and communicate.

Cure V is the most potent, effective cure spell in the game. Regen III beats it out, but that's HP over time, not instantly. If you only rely on Regen III, you'll find your tanks dead fast.

I am also slightly skeptical.

And that Cure V formula is wrong. After you reach a certain threshold, or "cap" if you will, you start to get slightly diminished results (but still enough to substantiate a MND swap-in). I think that this cap was around 690-ish. Also, the formula does not calculate VIT which also modifies Cure V numbers.

Like I say, the formula is wrong, since without Medicine Ring it do 842, and not 882 And VIT's effect on Cure V is almost neglectable, since MND is and always will be more effective. So its basically your base VIT only that affects it, since in any slot that you could put VIT in, you could put MND as well.

 

[Bajaratt]

I am also slightly skeptical.

And that Cure V formula is wrong. After you reach a certain threshold, or "cap" if you will, you start to get slightly diminished results (but still enough to substantiate a MND swap-in). I think that this cap was around 690-ish. Also, the formula does not calculate VIT which also modifies Cure V numbers.

I have never seen any proof that VIT has any effect on cure V numbers.

 

[Lukas]

You don't have any red mages or bards there either? Hell, the paladin's can't throw out cures for themselves to regain some of that hate they just lost? I said you're not the only healer, not that you're the only whm.

As you know, a buffed Cure V is the most MP efficient cure. If Uzor happens to be the only WHM present, it would make sense for him to try and use every MP to the fullest. From my experience, WHMs are usually the first to cure in end-game events. It's what they're there for really, to hawk the chat logs and HP bars. With a few cure casting merits, and some fast cast pieces, it becomes relatively easy.

Communication is key. RDMs and BRDs are secondary healers and should allow a WHM to Cure V if it means conserving a bit of the Alliance's MP pool. Besides, they're usually preoccupied with other responsibilities and I don't ever recall wiping at an event due to a BRD running out of MP.

Like I say, the formula is wrong, since without Medicine Ring it do 842, and not 882 And VIT's effect on Cure V is almost neglectable, since MND is and always will be more effective. So its basically your base VIT only that affects it, since in any slot that you could put VIT in, you could put MND as well.

Agreed. But still, base VIT is a substantial number to consider. It's been suggested that VIT outweighs healing magic skill in terms of its effect on Cure V, but I do not have the data to support this.

I have never seen any proof that VIT has any effect on cure V numbers.

If you cast Cure V without any gear, and then again with +VIT, you should notice a very slight difference.


EDIT: You can also test this on a low level character. If you have a Mandragora use Wild Oats on you, you should see a tiny drop in the amount of HP you can heal with Cure I.

 

[CmdrFly]

I have never seen any proof that VIT has any effect on cure V numbers.

It is indeed negligible but here's an old post on the topic.

Thread (Found it!)

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=1;mid=1126107523202546291

i did some head gear switching whilst healing the other day. the gears were zenith crown and cleric's cap. +4 MND and +5 VIT respectively.

i cure 777 with zenith averagely

and i cure 783 with clerics... hmmm....

75whm/37blm. Cure V for 813.

22% cure potency (Light staff + Aristocrats)

MND -> 73+32 = 105
VIT -> 58+1 = 59

Healing Skill -> 276.

--
I checked your formula against what I cure for. According to it, I should be getting 829 ;; (828.99)

Looks like VIT makes a decent impact too. Crappy mithra VIT and all.

The formula that he's talking about is the same one Kyrial & Baja posted.

Data!
For these tests I took my sub off.
I did not equip +cure potency.
Only few pieces of equip had other stats that I am not listing (if you need to know them please ask).
I will list my mnd, vit, healing magic skill and amount cured.
(I am a level 75 elvaan whm casting on a 75 taru rdm on lightningsday)

...............| .vit. | .mnd. | healing skill | CureV 
base...........| ..59. | ..68. | .....274..... | 622
 
Basic: 
 
+skill.........| ..59. | ..68. | ...274+37.... | 634 
+mnd...........| ..59. | 68+36 | .....274..... | 674 
+vit...........| 59+12 | ..68. | .....274..... | 628

Trying to find relationships between the individual stats and CureV potency (also for checking accuracy):

...............| .vit. | .mnd. | healing skill | CureV  
+skill+vit.....| .59+9 | ..68. | ...274+37.... | 639  
+vit+skill.....| 59+12 | ..68. | ...274+22.... | 636  
+vit+mnd.......| 59+12 | 68+19 | .....274..... | 657 
 
-vit+mnd.......| 59-12 | 68+17 | .....274..... | 642 
-vit+mnd+skill.| 59-12 | 68+17 | ...274+22.... | 649 
+skill.........| ..59. | ..68. | ...274+22.... | 630 
 
-vit+mnd.......| 59-12 | 68+47 | .....274..... | 687 
+mnd+skill.....| ..59. | 68+27 | ...274+37.... | 675

Now if we look at this it seems like:
+2Vit = +1hp
+2Mnd = +3hp
+5skill = +2hp

So the formula I come up with is:
((vit/2)+1) + (mnd/2)x3 + ((skill+/5)+random#)x2 + 380 = CureV
random# = -1 or 0 or +1 (so it basically randoms from -1 to +1)

Notes:
Anything behind the decimal is droped in between steps.
Skill is always rounded down to the closest multiple of 5.
Apparently there are is a random factor which will effect 2hp plus or minus.
(I added this to skill, since it takes effect in steps of 2hp aswell, and try to think of it as 'resists'.)

I couldn't figure out any other relationships between the stats and doubt there are any.

 

[Necrosis]

hay guyz i heard vit is jump modifier

 

[Rappa]

Since when was whm an e-peen job? Just freakin cast cure spells correctly and who cares if your C5s heal for 50 more? If you really want to focus on anything for curing, focus on fast cast/cure casting time stuff and +potency. Mind is okay if you wanna carry it around for after your max mp is used up, but it's not going to make or break anything. And worrying about enfeebling or whatever is silly, you have other mages for that. Relic pants and blessed body are fine for barspells and if you really want good barspells just get the merits too and you're set.

 

[Uzor]

You can do e-peen on every job Including, but not limited to, MNK, NIN, WAR, WHM, BLM and BLU. You can have e-peen gear aswell.

Either way, the difference between a 792 Cure V and 842 Cure V is rather large. It saves MP, which in the end is beneficial to everyone. High MP is useless when you're sitting at 50% MP. It only helps in the begining. For Cure III etc. you'll want high enmity reduction. Its basically the same thing. Every little bit helps.

edit: and yes, I would recomend every WHM to max out bar-spell merits first.