MNK, WAR, THF DoT comparison

Necrosis

Necrosis

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CmdrFly said:
Yep.

A decently geared mnk (Destroyers / SH / Brown) can match DoT with a pimped war (Ridillberk / Juggy / Speed).
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Bullshit.
So this means that I'll be able to absolutely own "pimped" ridillberk WARs? lol, doesn't work that way.

parseMTG.jpg

This is a Mamool JA exp party; Hyre is on NIN/WAR, I'm on thf/nin, both MNKs (the other melees) are /NIN. Either MNK in question definitely surpasses your "destroyers / SH / brown" standard of "decent gear".

I accidently left Bomblet in safe for this party too.
 
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Necrosis said:
Bullshit.
So this means that I'll be able to absolutely own "pimped" ridillberk WARs? lol, doesn't work that way.
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Takes me back to the day that I said a similarly geared THF can really outdamage a NIN, and I got flak for it. GG guys, maybe try not to jump the gun
 
Keryan said:
As a pld if i can not maintain hate then I am doing something wrong. Mind you that is my personal opinion. Then again when DD's open a fight with weapon skills and spamming abilities then complain when they die all i can do is say "you did not let me build hate" After all everyone with pld lved knows cover is every 5 min. Stupid plds that go into lving thinking they are doomed to lose hate annoy me. These plds give good plds a bad name and make good dd's gimp themselves just so they don't die. It makes me feel bad when Dd's tell me about crappy tanks they had.
As a whm at 75 i have exped well gaining 8-10k an hour no ring with monks as /war and ones /nin. Somehow the tank kept hate and the monks lived. I can tell you alot of cannons take rdms over whms. I know this because I am asked to go as rdm 95% of the time. Rdm pulls hate from even a pimped monk when we spam Cure 4. Of course we spam it even with monk/nin when their shadows are down, timers not ready or they are interupted. This usually involves rdm death and HP if they are /blm because the "cannon" leader got abard/nin. Now before u say i don't know cannons i had 1 get chain 103 before they had to go. I netted 2 merits from under an hours worth of exp. I was whm in that cannon. 2 bards 1 /nin 1 /whm, 1 nin and 2 war/nin.
what i want to see from SE is a new tank class and healer class. Also what would be cool is jeuno missions. you know for people that have beat all the nations rank.After all why do the nations have jeunon conculs<sp>.
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I think that was the party with me and Ivolt. Ya that party was rockin.

Honestly though, I've been in parties with monk/wars and I haven't(recently) had problems with them taking hate from the tank, and they were going balls to the wall. But that imo is because I'm not one of those bards that give us a bad name and lvled brd just to merit other jobs, or to get into endgame shit. Brd's actually my main job, so of course, I've got it merited. Honestly a monk/war doesn't lose a crapload of dps if they're missing the weaker haste or att+ song in place of Dirge which lowers enmity
 
Necrosis said:
Bullshit.
So this means that I'll be able to absolutely own "pimped" ridillberk WARs? lol, doesn't work that way.

parseMTG.jpg

This is a Mamool JA exp party; Hyre is on NIN/WAR, I'm on thf/nin, both MNKs (the other melees) are /NIN. Either MNK in question definitely surpasses your "destroyers / SH / brown" standard of "decent gear".
Click to expand...
I didn't specify sub, that was my mistake. You think you could perform the same if they were both /war?
 
CmdrFly said:
I didn't specify sub, that was my mistake. You think you could perform the same if they were both /war?
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You do realize I can sub /war too, right? lol
 
Yep, and? You can still beat two "pimped" mnk/war's by 6%? Didn't detail merits for anyone either.

I stand by my (suffixed) statement, call bullshit as you please but until you have proof it's a mirror you should be talking to.
 
Geez Nec, if you do that well in exp, why am I usually the one taking the brunt of the attacks with Nyzul Bosses. :(

No wonder our drop rates suck. You don't bring your A game. Gimptaru.
 
CmdrFly said:
Yep, and? You can still beat two "pimped" mnk/war's by 6%? Didn't detail merits for anyone either.
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I never used the word "pimped", but they had haidates and togi/osodes or w/e you monks wear for body pieces at the very minimum. Not sure about merits exactly, but fairly certain h2h and crits at the least were merited, because brown belt MNKs don't usually get that close without a lot of merits. I was just using it as an example.

About the /war comment, mnk/war doesn't get anything more out of /war than thf does, why should the %s change miraculously?
 
Skaw said:
Geez Nec, if you do that well in exp, why am I usually the one taking the brunt of the attacks with Nyzul Bosses. :(

No wonder our drop rates suck. You don't bring your A game. Gimptaru.
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Trick Attack ;p
 
Necrosis said:
I never used the word "pimped", but they had haidates and togi/osodes or w/e you monks wear for body pieces at the very minimum. Not sure about merits exactly, but fairly certain h2h and crits at the least were merited, because brown belt MNKs don't usually get that close without a lot of merits. I was just using it as an example.

About the /war comment, mnk/war doesn't get anything more out of /war than thf does, why should the %s change miraculously?
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Because thf actually gets something out of /nin, while monk gets nothing? Your gain from /war wouldn't be nearly as big as a monk's.
 
They won't close the 6-8% gap from /war alone. A good 6-7 WSs were gimped from people pulling hate at the wrong times when i wanted to SAWS, etc., as well; an optimum party would be 3 instead of 4 melees.

Cmdr stated that a "decently geared" MNK, let's say /war sub, can outparse a "pimped" ridillberk WAR; that doesn't logically make sense. I stated I didn't think I could contend with a "pimped" ridillberk WAR, and showed parse results from a party with several more-than-"decently geared" MNKs. These results showed me ahead by quite a wide margin. What more proof is needed?
 
Necrosis said:
They won't close the 6-8% gap from /war alone. A good 6-7 WSs were gimped from people pulling hate at the wrong times when i wanted to SAWS, etc., as well; an optimum party would be 3 instead of 4 melees.
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I dunno Nec.

You're losing Dual Wield. Increasing your overall delay by atleast 10%.
They aren't losing Dual Wield. Their delay remains the same.

That alone will close a 6-8% gap.
 
I don't think that a decently geared mnk would be able to beat a pimped out warrior; although a mnk wearing a scorpion harness at 75 I wouldn't really classify as decent, maybe mediocre or ok-ly geared. With an equivalent level of gear though, monk will still be at the top.
 
Skaw said:
I dunno Nec.

You're losing Dual Wield. Increasing your overall delay by atleast 10%.
They aren't losing Dual Wield. Their delay remains the same.

That alone will close a 6-8% gap.
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10% off daggers is miniscule (it's more like 15% from DWII + 5% from suppa iirc by the way). To quantify it (not sure if this is correct math):
-Blau/SK (dual wield II + suppa) (178+150)*(1-(.15+.05))=~262/2=~131 average weapon delay
-Blau/shield = 178

That's ~47 delay difference; I fail to see how that can account for such a massive discrepancy as 6-8%.
 
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Your delay shoots up nearly 30%. Monks damage isn't coming from their weaponskills(certainly not Asuran Fists anyway,) where as a Thiefs is. Double Attack is assisting their primary damage source immensely.

You're going 33/178 against 50-50(assuming merits putting them at 290 atleast and destroyers)/348. Roughly the same delay per attack, but the monks have atleast 50% weapon damage over you.
 
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Depending on weapon of choice too, you'd lose offhand stats.

Also I think we're bickering over nothi... well its the Internet that`s a given. I should say, I think we`re bickering over miscomm:

Necrosis said:
Cmdr stated that a "decently geared" MNK, let's say /war sub, can outparse a "pimped" ridillberk WAR; that doesn't logically make sense.
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CmdrFly said:
A decently geared mnk (Destroyers / SH / Brown) can match DoT with a pimped war (Ridillberk / Juggy / Speed).
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I didn't say anything about outparsing. I haven't paid enough attention to mnk WS numbers to make claims on them, I was speaking strictly from seeing hit to hit per-swing dmg comparing decked mnks I've parsed against on my war.

They did more per swing than me, and faster. I'm far from pimped. That's what I meant from the get go.
 
CmdrFly said:
Depending on weapon of choice too, you'd lose offhand stats.

Also I think we're bickering over nothi... well its the Internet that`s a given. I should say, I think we`re bickering over miscomm:



I didn't say anything about outparsing. I haven't paid enough attention to mnk WS numbers to make claims on them, I was speaking strictly from seeing hit to hit per-swing dmg comparing decked mnks I've parsed against on my war.

They did more per swing than me, and faster. I'm far from pimped. That's what I meant from the get go.
Click to expand...

Outparse, match, whatever. A "decent" MNK won't come close to a ridillberk WAR.
 
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