My Big Complaint about FFXI: Weakness in versitility

[Firestreak]

I have a complaint as one of the many who have chosen to level multiple jobs. There seems to be a somewhat poor design on the part of Squaresoft in terms of encouraging players to level again and again keeping us interested in the game.

Probably the first thing you'll notice is divine might - in which you get several choices of earrings and each is best for 1 job. Then Square decided to do a very odd thing. The earring you pick is the only earring you can have - and the choice is permaneant.

Most of us doing DM had 1 job, as most of us got sky as our first job approached 75. Therefore the choice was simple.

Then we continue onward to merits. We get 12 combat merits and 8 magic. Well, this is enough perhaps? If you for example leveled your first job redmage, it's a no brainer- and you cap out 8 enfeebling magic.

Now if you ever level BLM, you can't merit elemental. If you ever level SMN, you can't merit summoning. If you ever level BRD, can't merit singing. Can't level ninjutsu, can't level dark magic. (Not that most DRK would care that much.)

Then you start to think about your job. Maybe you're a elvaan and you realize your BLM is 14 INT points behind that tarutaru BLM.

Well, they say you can make up with gear. Well, let's see about that. You're an Elvaan BLM, I'm a tarutaru. How are you going to make up for a 14 INT base difference?

Or how about you merited your enfeebling magic and I merited my elemental. You going to make up 16 elemental with gear? AF2 hat is only 10 and you're losing 6 int that I'd get off demon+1 helm.

Yeah, I understand - specialization - great! But should specialization mean that a very poorly equipped Elvaan Nin should outdamage the mithra with the best gear because the differences in race is bigger than the differences in gear? Should specialization mean that you can level so many jobs but only 1 melee job and 1 mage job at a time can be fully merited?

Wouldn't it be better to make the difference in gear greater to motivate people to rationally gear up their characters instead of more logically playing an entirely different character for each job allowing them to simply stack the right merits and right race to the right job every time?

Why only 1 CoP ring for character if I'm willing to go through the trials of CoP again and again for the right ring for every job. It's their game. It's their challenge. Why would they limit me on what I can do when they want me to keep playing?

Isn't it the ultimate contradiction that the very premise of the game is versility, playing different jobs on the same character and doing the game again and again from different angles - but in the end they stack it so you can only pick 1 job to specialize in and the other jobs will never be able to compete, even if you sink more gil and put more effort in than the others.

I don't know, maybe I'm alone in feeling this way. I constantly try to see how I can improve myself - improve my damage output, or whatever - and I always am analyzing the minute differences that are possible and compare them against the backdrop of these giant differences I have no control over. This isn't really meant as a whine but more of a question of if I'm alone in realizing a lack of purpose in the design?

PS: I don't expect the majority of the playerbase to be able to relate to this, and they will probably see it as more of a whine than anything else. Hopefully others with multiple jobs 70+ will relate.

 

[Knightblade]

I can't relate to you, as my only job in that range is samurai at 75, but I do fully agree with you, SE should have made the game more versatile, and not just specialized into one job. Especially since I chose bushinomimi, if I ever choose to level war or nin, i would get fucked over wishing I had gotten the suppanomimi. Same goes for the cop rings,

 

[Winklewil]

FFXI is, plain and simple, the only MMOPRG in which you can actively switch between jobs, and even have two completely different jobs at once (with limited aspects).

To put it bluntly, you've let yourself become spoiled. Yes, one selling point of FFXI is the alleged "versatility," but just as your one-time choice of race will eventually place some minor limits on how you'll eventually compare to others in any one job, there is going to be the occasional bottleneck INTENTIONALLY put in place to keep people from becoming veritable gods at EVERYTHING.

The whole "one ring to rule them all" thing was thought out very carefully, and it was made that way for a reason. To be completely frank, "lots of versatility" doesn't mean "everyone will be the same." That would be the true mistake.



There are a lot of people, I think, that experienced FFXI as their first MMORPG that have let the whole "Change job, KUPO!" thing settle deep into their expectations, and they take that kind of adaptability for granted ... almost as if it's a basic aspect of the genre.


It isn't.



In any other game, you'd be locked into a single job ... ONE ... the moment you created your character. What's more, there's not really anything wrong with that. Changing jobs is one thing that makes FFXI pretty unique, and it's pulled off very well ... but playing a single, "static" job can also be very fun.

I have friends who play FFXI that have scowled at the notion when I told them about it. They can't begin to imagine "one job." Coming from Everquest, however, I can assure everyone that it does work for what it is, it can be very enjoyable, and there is some part of me that would almost prefer it that way on certain days.



Bearing all of that in mind, and fully appreciating the amount of flexibility FFXI's job system grants you, it's not so difficult to accept a one-time choice of a specialty ring, is it? I'll say it one more time: versality doesn't mean "everyone will be the same at everything, at all times." At some point, the developers are going to nudge you (and very wisely so) down one path, or another. Choosing your race, and selecting merits, are examples of those times. This is just another.

The loss of this one ring takes nothing away from the glorious freedom that's been granted to you, in that you're given the option to immediately become one of the other jobs at any time ... with absolutely no penalty to the one you've been on.

It is, all things considered, a very small thing ... and I like the fact that it's there. It forces people (spoiled FFXI people who've gotten very used to the lack of any need to permanently specialize) to make at least one lasting decision, and that's a good thing. The day they remove those little "choices" is the day everyone becomes the same. If you started your character as a Tarutaru black mage, then no ... you shouldn't one day become the best Monk (stat-wise or otherwise) on the server.

It's something that sounds good on paper, and when you're fantasizing about it, or even when you're grumbling about the choice you were forced to make ... in practice, however, it will rapidly make everything much more boring as a whole.

 

[Bajaratt]

I do understand what you're saying, and to an extent, I agree. There are some limiting factors in the game that hinder the idea of multiple jobs on a single character, but I don't think that they're that crippling. I'm leveling a diverse array of jobs(tank, DD, healer, support) so I understand your concerns about the options available to you; but I don't mind the limits that have been placed on the game at the moment.

For merits, if I remember correctly, they were added just to keep 75's interested in the game and exping. At the time, there weren't very many people with a large number of level 75 jobs, so the merit limits were not a big concern. Now, the limits for combat and magic skills need to be raised, preferably doubled; and SE has already said that they were planning to expand the number of merits you could use in a future update, so we'll see what happens there.

For the one-time gear options like the DM Earrings, CoP rings and the Nigh Earrings; I think the design of them is fine. By forcing you to only have 1 choice and to stick with it, they're encouraging some individuality for the players. While if you make a bad decision and completely quit the job you got the gear for, it really sucks for you, but I think that can be solved by planning ahead and not completing the quest the second you are able to. I'm also not entirely convinced that the choice will have such a huge impact on your performance over someone without it, but I do understand that you will suffer slightly less performance without it.

I chose bushinomimi because at the time I had no intention of leveling ninja, and bushinomimi was the only DM earring that held any appeal. As I get closer to the level available to wear my DM earring, I'm not feeling any regret over not choosing a suppanomimi. Sure, I lose dual wield and 2 AGI on my earring, but a bushinomimi is still useful to NIN with the 2 STR and 5 parrying skill; plus it's actually useful for my other jobs whereas suppa would be worthless. If I had to make the same decision now, I'd still choose bushinomimi, since suppanomimi would only be useful for one job but bushinomimi is useful for 3.

As far as race goes, races are supposed to be better than others at some jobs. Assuming equal gear, a taru will always be better than an elvaan at a mage job, just like elvaan will always be better than taru at a DD job. That's where the versatility comes in, while one race might not be the best at one job, they will excel at another; unless you're hume.

The problem that I'd see with making it so you can get every DM/CoP/Nigh gear or be able to change them on a whim is that it takes away any real individuality of the players. It becomes less of a decision as to play style and becomes more of a requirement so you'd hear "where is your suppa, you gimp nin?" I like having people choose different gear based on their preferences, just like their race.

The choices of which gear you select has consequences and shouldn't be made flippantly, but I wouldn't mind giving people a one-time option to change their selection if they decide later on that they really messed up. Make it a non-repeatable quest so that they can't change their choices constantly, but still forgive a mistake.

 

[Firestreak]

FFXI is, plain and simple, the only MMOPRG in which you can actively switch between jobs, and even have two completely different jobs at once (with limited aspects).

To put it bluntly, you've let yourself become spoiled. Yes, one selling point of FFXI is the alleged "versatility," but just as your one-time choice of race will eventually place some minor limits on how you'll eventually compare to others in any one job, there is going to be the occasional bottleneck INTENTIONALLY put in place to keep people from becoming veritable gods at EVERYTHING.

The whole "one ring to rule them all" thing was thought out very carefully, and it was made that way for a reason. To be completely frank, "lots of versatility" doesn't mean "everyone will be the same." That would be the true mistake.



There are a lot of people, I think, that experienced FFXI as their first MMORPG that have let the whole "Change job, KUPO!" thing settle deep into their expectations, and they take that kind of adaptability for granted ... almost as if it's a basic aspect of the genre.


It isn't.



In any other game, you'd be locked into a single job ... ONE ... the moment you created your character. What's more, there's not really anything wrong with that. Changing jobs is one thing that makes FFXI pretty unique, and it's pulled off very well ... but playing a single, "static" job can also be very fun.

I have friends who play FFXI that have scowled at the notion when I told them about it. They can't begin to imagine "one job." Coming from Everquest, however, I can assure everyone that it does work for what it is, it can be very enjoyable, and there is some part of me that would almost prefer it that way on certain days.



Bearing all of that in mind, and fully appreciating the amount of flexibility FFXI's job system grants you, it's not so difficult to accept a one-time choice of a specialty ring, is it? I'll say it one more time: versality doesn't mean "everyone will be the same at everything, at all times." At some point, the developers are going to nudge you (and very wisely so) down one path, or another. Choosing your race, and selecting merits, are examples of those times. This is just another.

The loss of this one ring takes nothing away from the glorious freedom that's been granted to you, in that you're given the option to immediately become one of the other jobs at any time ... with absolutely no penalty to the one you've been on.

It is, all things considered, a very small thing ... and I like the fact that it's there. It forces people (spoiled FFXI people who've gotten very used to the lack of any need to permanently specialize) to make at least one lasting decision, and that's a good thing. The day they remove those little "choices" is the day everyone becomes the same. If you started your character as a Tarutaru black mage, then no ... you shouldn't one day become the best Monk (stat-wise or otherwise) on the server.

It's something that sounds good on paper, and when you're fantasizing about it, or even when you're grumbling about the choice you were forced to make ... in practice, however, it will rapidly make everything much more boring as a whole.

First off by saying "minor differences" you are missing the point of my complaint. If they were very minor, I wouldn't mind. If Rajas vs Flame ring was minor - if Tarutaru STR vs Elvaan STR was minor, I wouldn't mind so much - however the differences are greater than the best gear that we spend months and years accumulating can make up for.

As for comparison to other games, it's really quit simple. I played Asheron's call. I had a Life Archer, I also had a Battlemage. How? They were different characters.

In Final fantasy you're expected to play multiple jobs just to be competent at one - just to have choices in subjobs. In Asheron's Call every class could be played as a completely seperate character. They'd have their own stats, own race and THEIR OWN INVENTORY. Furthermore, they gave you 5 character slots free with your account. The concept of having all the jobs in one character is essentially a trap - as after you level them and realize the complications, you've already put the effort into a single character.

As for the question of sameness leading to boring... well, not really. Most people don't have a CoP ring at all, period. Me being able to get 2 wouldn't mean everyone in the game would have a Rajas. There are plenty of people who want to play black mage and only black mage and picked hume. The point is that after you play for long enough you start trying to reach maximum efficiency. In that vein, fuck versitility - there is a best. In every game there's a best, and that's fine cause it gives us something to strive for. Then when we get it... FFXI could keep us playing by letting us work for the best in other jobs.. Rather than letting us come to the cold realization that we've reached the end of the game and we're no longer able to improve. Any jobs we want to level are unmeritable. The best gear unavailable and the potential usefulness for them fleeting.

 

[Lavi]

It's not a huge difference, you'll just reach a higher cap. If you get Tamas and want to be a melee, your cap is a Ring with +5STR with no additional stats. If SE decided to change it so you can change CoP rings or obtain multiple, then the cap is higher at the Rajas ring. The idea behind those rings, earrings, etc. is for players to excel in one particular job sometimes more, but not all jobs. The idea that anyone in can be elite in all jobs takes away from the diversity of the game and makes the end game elite model for all jobs attainable by all people. I like the idea that while someone can be the best all around mage with elite gear, they cannot possible be the best all around melee for that very same reason. They have to chose and while versatility is important in this game, the elite model isn't. In order to do that, you need to play multiple characters and not everyone is willing to do that especially after all the effort that goes into getting just one character where they are now.

I believe SE had the intention to allow players to have access to all jobs to enjoy the game more and play the jobs to their fullest, but not for everyone to fully gear them up as well. The way I see it is they wanted people to have one, maybe two or three specific jobs they play and to gear them up in the elite gear which is mainly rare/ex. Why else do would they avoid allowing storage of anything past level 60? The idea is you are limited in space and have to choice which is best for your job and not be able to fully gear every single job. They don't want people who have the intention of getting full sets of A, D, E, M, N, and W abj sets plus the god set and whatever CoP gear (torques, earrings, weapons, etc.) plus the bountiful other rare/ex armors. They want people to pick a set or two they would make the most of and still allow other players to obtain sets as well.

Personally, I had wished the differences in races had been far more severe. In a lot of instances, while you say that gear cannot make up for the difference, it can make up for vastly inferior geared player. A WAR with no hauby will almost always lose to a WAR with a hauby regardless of race. I wish the stats (skill levels) varied more by race to define choices more than they already are. This way people could be Sword wielding THFs, polearm using warriors, and other unheard of combinations while never being gimp. So in essence, I wish for the exact opposite, for the game to make the difference between players based on race and gear far more than they already are.

 

[hellstorm]

First off by saying "minor differences" you are missing the point of my complaint. If they were very minor, I wouldn't mind. If Rajas vs Flame ring was minor - if Tarutaru STR vs Elvaan STR was minor, I wouldn't mind so much - however the differences are greater than the best gear that we spend months and years accumulating can make up for.

As for comparison to other games, it's really quit simple. I played Asheron's call. I had a Life Archer, I also had a Battlemage. How? They were different characters.

In Final fantasy you're expected to play multiple jobs just to be competent at one - just to have choices in subjobs. In Asheron's Call every class could be played as a completely seperate character. They'd have their own stats, own race and THEIR OWN INVENTORY. Furthermore, they gave you 5 character slots free with your account. The concept of having all the jobs in one character is essentially a trap - as after you level them and realize the complications, you've already put the effort into a single character.

As for the question of sameness leading to boring... well, not really. Most people don't have a CoP ring at all, period. Me being able to get 2 wouldn't mean everyone in the game would have a Rajas. There are plenty of people who want to play black mage and only black mage and picked hume. The point is that after you play for long enough you start trying to reach maximum efficiency. In that vein, fuck versitility - there is a best. In every game there's a best, and that's fine cause it gives us something to strive for. Then when we get it... FFXI could keep us playing by letting us work for the best in other jobs.. Rather than letting us come to the cold realization that we've reached the end of the game and we're no longer able to improve. Any jobs we want to level are unmeritable. The best gear unavailable and the potential usefulness for them fleeting.

I agree with this. It hard to compare ffxi with other games. Unlike other games you pay $1 per toon. unlike other games you would not have to do long drawnout mission over again to unlock places to go. Also in other game you currency is normally from mobs unlike this game where everything is from item to cash transfer. Unlike other jobs where the race you pick determine the job you was going to be. Unlike other job you would not have to lvl 3 to 4 other jobs to lvl 1 job.
In short you cant compare ffxi to everquest because they are like apple and oranges.


edit: this game is a double edge sword. This games is made appealing by the lovable CG and the ability to change jobs on one char. Also that is where the problem starts. There is just not enough space to hold all the gear you need for every job you need. The quest they make are set for all jobs unlike most game where they would be set for certain races and/or jobs.

The other side this is in other game you don't get the cut movies like you do in this game because it be to hard to make so many scenarios for all different jobs and races. Other games you have one guild/linkshell while this one you have many. The draw back of this is the linkpearls take up space in the already small inventory.

Other games you have banks which normally hold much more space; while this game you have A moghouse with many satellite moggles. In turn you have a house to decorate. They made the storage only available at your home mog house but made the furniture take up space in your mog safe. Which is a big draw back because it limits what you can do with a house. Why take up space on safe for space in a storage that can only be accessed in home city.

Then there the crafting. They limited what you can do with crafting in this game so much. Other games you can do multiple crafts this one only 1 with several sub crafts. Other games they would make crafts that can help you make money or save money but this game they set it at the center of the economy. Which not smart because it getting to the point now when the number of crafted items are at a surplus so items are not selling as well. Also you have the would mad cc and large rmt because large some of the money come from getting drops and selling them. The rmt problem is even strengthen with the powerless gm they have, who either can't help or are to lazy to investigate a claim.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Hm, if the game was even more versatile, like, with more inventory slots, wouldn't that make everyone just pile even more time to obtain the full sets of gear? Maybe in the design where everything already takes ridiculously long to get done, the prospect of having the space to hold all of the God/CoP etc gear will just make people play even more than they do already, which could make them liable in messing up peoples' lives?

That may seem beneficial to some, but only people with incredible amounts of time, but perhaps these limitations are in set so people with less time would not feel -that- drawn behind the game compared to other players?

 

[Firestreak]

It's not a huge difference, you'll just reach a higher cap. If you get Tamas and want to be a melee, your cap is a Ring with +5STR with no additional stats. If SE decided to change it so you can change CoP rings or obtain multiple, then the cap is higher at the Rajas ring. The idea behind those rings, earrings, etc. is for players to excel in one particular job sometimes more, but not all jobs. The idea that anyone in can be elite in all jobs takes away from the diversity of the game and makes the end game elite model for all jobs attainable by all people. I like the idea that while someone can be the best all around mage with elite gear, they cannot possible be the best all around melee for that very same reason. They have to chose and while versatility is important in this game, the elite model isn't. In order to do that, you need to play multiple characters and not everyone is willing to do that especially after all the effort that goes into getting just one character where they are now.

I believe SE had the intention to allow players to have access to all jobs to enjoy the game more and play the jobs to their fullest, but not for everyone to fully gear them up as well. The way I see it is they wanted people to have one, maybe two or three specific jobs they play and to gear them up in the elite gear which is mainly rare/ex. Why else do would they avoid allowing storage of anything past level 60? The idea is you are limited in space and have to choice which is best for your job and not be able to fully gear every single job. They don't want people who have the intention of getting full sets of A, D, E, M, N, and W abj sets plus the god set and whatever CoP gear (torques, earrings, weapons, etc.) plus the bountiful other rare/ex armors. They want people to pick a set or two they would make the most of and still allow other players to obtain sets as well.

Personally, I had wished the differences in races had been far more severe. In a lot of instances, while you say that gear cannot make up for the difference, it can make up for vastly inferior geared player. A WAR with no hauby will almost always lose to a WAR with a hauby regardless of race. I wish the stats (skill levels) varied more by race to define choices more than they already are. This way people could be Sword wielding THFs, polearm using warriors, and other unheard of combinations while never being gimp. So in essence, I wish for the exact opposite, for the game to make the difference between players based on race and gear far more than they already are.

I think you're in some ways blinded by judgement. In that you see someone of an inferior race with superior gear in better light and prefer to party with them - but in reality the gear difference doesn't make up for the race difference usually.

 

[Knightblade]

First off by saying "minor differences" you are missing the point of my complaint. If they were very minor, I wouldn't mind. If Rajas vs Flame ring was minor.

it isn't that big of a difference, since most people use flame ring because they haven't even progressed in CoP that far the first place, no?

 

[Skaw]

Ther versatility still exists, as long as you're not 75. The biggest problem with the merit system is that everyone mirrors someone elses layout to where it becomes only a method to get the most out of X Job for EXP. It's supposed to be used for personal character individuality. Something to make your character stand out among the rest of the people on the same job. But no one does that, because theres a problem in the merit system that conflicts with every jobs weakness. No Black Mage would ever merit Eart Potency, because Stone has very little applicable use in most of the game. Even if they made HNMs that take triple damage from Stone Magic, you're not going to see people stray from the holy duo of Thunder and Ice.

The smart player would(and should,) do things differently, to excel in different situations for their linkshell. You have 6 Black Mages? Logically, each one should pick an Element. Sure, 5 of the Black Mages won't be as strong as the one based on what you're fighting, but you're guaranteed to have atleast one Black Mage who won't suffer for the fight, rather than all 6.

The same applies to other jobs and their merits as well. How many Ninjas specialize in one/two of the Sans for the Linkshell. Sure, they're less damage than Ni, but what about their resistance debuff? Red Mages only Go Slow II and Paralyze II, why not have three go for two of each. Summoners?

In short: Specialization means nothing if everyone just goes the same Route, people simply build their merit structure around EXP, and not the rest of the game.

 

[Uzor]

I do agree to some extent, in that I dislike that your merits are concentrated towards 1 job in order to make it superior.

Personally, I lvled mage jobs first. For a simple reason, that I liked RDM, and I spent my merits towards RDM, which to some extent benefited my other jobs.

Now, the problem is, I'm pretty much out of mage jobs to level. And thus, I decided to lvl NIN, which naturally becomes a problem later on as I chose to merit sword for BLU, and enfeebling magic for RDM. Although I did merit spell interruption rate and critical hit rate, which would benefit NIN.

As for racial differences, I don't mind that much. I like playing an elvaan mage. It means I have to truggle more to become equal or greater then tarutaru mages. It gives me more of a challange, like playing games at "hard" setting instead of "easy". I chose to struggle more and make it harded, and I enjoy it.

As for single.choice rewards, yeah. That sucks. I'd love to have a Rajas for my NIN, or another CoP earring for my mage jobs.

 

[Uzor]

Ther versatility still exists, as long as you're not 75. The biggest problem with the merit system is that everyone mirrors someone elses layout to where it becomes only a method to get the most out of X Job for EXP. It's supposed to be used for personal character individuality. Something to make your character stand out among the rest of the people on the same job. But no one does that, because theres a problem in the merit system that conflicts with every jobs weakness. No Black Mage would ever merit Eart Potency, because Stone has very little applicable use in most of the game. Even if they made HNMs that take triple damage from Stone Magic, you're not going to see people stray from the holy duo of Thunder and Ice.

The smart player would(and should,) do things differently, to excel in different situations for their linkshell. You have 6 Black Mages? Logically, each one should pick an Element. Sure, 5 of the Black Mages won't be as strong as the one based on what you're fighting, but you're guaranteed to have atleast one Black Mage who won't suffer for the fight, rather than all 6.

The same applies to other jobs and their merits as well. How many Ninjas specialize in one/two of the Sans for the Linkshell. Sure, they're less damage than Ni, but what about their resistance debuff? Red Mages only Go Slow II and Paralyze II, why not have three go for two of each. Summoners?

In short: Specialization means nothing if everyone just goes the same Route, people simply build their merit structure around EXP, and not the rest of the game.

The thing about this is not in the flaw of merits, but rather in the flaw of the game design. The misstake SE made is that everything in the entire game is either weak to thunder or ice. Quite naturally this is what BLMes chose to merit, as those are also the strongest spells.

This way, if something is strong to thunder, they can cast Blizzard for full effect. If something is strong to blizzard, they can cast thunder for full effect. Ironically, it also gives them a chance to burst both darkness and light SC with full effect.

The second flaw is that when something is weak to something such as fire, it only reduces the chance you'll get resisted. It does practically nothing to your damage, and thus, ocncentrating on what the mob is weak to doesn't really benefit you, sicne you'll have pretty much the same resist rates on thunder and blizzard.

As for enfeebles, Paralyze and Slow are our strongest enfeebles. They are the most effective ones too. Sure, you can chose to merit Blind fully, but its not as effective as Slow and Paralyze. And if a RDM chose to merit that in order to help out his LS, he'd be gimp in all other situations. If they made Blind as effective as Slow and Paralyze, people would merit it. But it would also mean that RDMes would be far too overpowered.

WHM on the other hand have rather balanced merits, as its mostly strictly buff related. Protectra V and Shellra V are both awesome spells to merit, and since those are WHM defining spells, WHMes quite naturally merit this. Devotion is also the only spell WHMes have that can give MP, which is why most WHMes prefer to merit this. It also means that 2 WHMes in the same party can give eachother MP, thus benefiting the whole party. Martyre, on the other hand, gives HP, and we already have 5 spells that do the same thing. And giving 50% of your HP (which for most WHMes should be around 400-500 HP) every 20 min is just not worth it.

BLU merits are pure awesomeness though. Physical spell efficiency increases our physical spells damage. Quite naturally all BLU's chose to merit this fully. Who wouldn't? Everyone goes for full efficiency, and ironically, pretty much the same spells and abilities worth using in exp parties are also worth using in HNM situations. So why not merit them?

 

[Bajaratt]

I think you're in some ways blinded by judgement. In that you see someone of an inferior race with superior gear in better light and prefer to party with them - but in reality the gear difference doesn't make up for the race difference usually.

The difference in gear shouldn't make up for the difference in races, otherwise there's zero point in having multiple races and everyone should just be hume. Those racial differences is where some of the versatility comes from, because while you might never be able to beat a elvaan nin, you'll rock every elvaan blm no matter how hard they try.

 

[Skaw]

This way, if something is strong to thunder, they can cast Blizzard for full effect. If something is strong to blizzard, they can cast thunder for full effect. Ironically, it also gives them a chance to burst both darkness and light SC with full effect.

The second flaw is that when something is weak to something such as fire, it only reduces the chance you'll get resisted. It does practically nothing to your damage, and thus, ocncentrating on what the mob is weak to doesn't really benefit you, sicne you'll have pretty much the same resist rates on thunder and blizzard.

This is why it's not a flaw in the game, but rather the flaw of the Black Mage Job:

It's not exactly that everythings weak to Thunder and Blizzard. It's just that Thunder and Blizzard are the last two tier IV/~ga III elements a Black Mage achieves. And the way the magic is set up, MP basically deviates from it's original meaning of "Magic Points" to become "More Power." Rather than design the job to where all spells of equal tier cost the same MP and do the same Damage, they decided to stagger it in design, making other magic just flat out weaker than the rest. It's easily fixable, but you just don't see it happening.

If it were a flaw in the game, it wouldn't be fixed as easily as simply rewriting spells to match eachother in power and cost. This would also provide more of a strategic feel for the Job as well, since 4 other elements per tier actually become useful

 

[Uzor]

You don't get it. Thunder and Blizzard are the last tier spells, thus, they are naturally stronger. Yes. But anything that's strong to thunder is weak to ice, and anything that's strong to blizzard is weak to thunder. That is the flaw in the game. The other one lies in the game design that weakness only decreases magical resistance and not increases damage, which it should do.

And yes, I do agree that it would become more strategical to make BLM spells like NIN elemental ninjutsu, in that all do the same damage, but only if weakness actually increased damage rather then decreased resist rates.

 

[Bajaratt]

You don't get it. Thunder and Blizzard are the last tier spells, thus, they are naturally stronger. Yes. But anything that's strong to thunder is weak to ice, and anything that's strong to blizzard is weak to thunder. That is the flaw in the game. The other one lies in the game design that weakness only decreases magical resistance and not increases damage, which it should do.

And yes, I do agree that it would become more strategical to make BLM spells like NIN elemental ninjutsu, in that all do the same damage, but only if weakness actually increased damage rather then decreased resist rates.

That's what Skaw said the problem was, that BECAUSE thunder and blizzard are the last spells you learn and because SE's method of last = strongest; that's why they are the strongest. They're all tier 1 spells, so they should all be doing the same damage. They could do that by increasing the resistance to the mob's non-weak element, make the weak element do more damage, or better yet, just give all 6 spells per tier the exact same damage formula so they'll be equal except for the mob's resistances.

Most mobs have 2 elemental weaknesses, so if they took out the retarded thuder/ice > all system, then the other weakness might actually get used. I do agree that making everything weak to either thunder or ice was a poorly thought out decision though.

 

[Uzor]

That's what Skaw said the problem was, that BECAUSE thunder and blizzard are the last spells you learn and because SE's method of last = strongest; that's why they are the strongest. They're all tier 1 spells, so they should all be doing the same damage. They could do that by increasing the resistance to the mob's non-weak element, make the weak element do more damage, or better yet, just give all 6 spells per tier the exact same damage formula so they'll be equal except for the mob's resistances.

Most mobs have 2 elemental weaknesses, so if they took out the retarded thuder/ice > all system, then the other weakness might actually get used. I do agree that making everything weak to either thunder or ice was a poorly thought out decision though.

Yes, I know that's what he said, but the whole reason Thunder/Ice is the only ones used isn't just because they are the strongest, which is what I got from Skaw's post.

The whole flaw is that everything is weak to those, nut that they are the strongest. If things weren't all weak to one or the other of them, they wouldn't be as widely used in end-game.

The largest flaw, is in the way resistance work, not that Thunder and Ice are stronger.

Hell, look at Tier 2 AM spells. People merit all 6 of them, but still prefer using Thunder and Ice ones, even though all spells do the same damage and cost the same MP un-merited. Although part of that might be that they already merited ice and thunder.

 

[alanon]

Kinda agree on the earrings. Wish you could just re-do the quest and trade it in. For me, I did DM well over a year and a half ago. I was a Blm and had no aspirations of levelling anything else at the time, so I chose the +Int one. Thanks to AN, I no longer even wear it.

Like a poster on alla once said, "There are two kinds of people: Those that chose Suppa, and those that wish they had."

 

[Lavi]

I think you're in some ways blinded by judgement. In that you see someone of an inferior race with superior gear in better light and prefer to party with them - but in reality the gear difference doesn't make up for the race difference usually.

I've partied with several Elvaan warriors who seem to underestimate the signifigance of accuracy. They like all players these days, stack on the STR because intermittent bigger numbers is better than constant smaller numbers. I am a mithra and while I lack STR, I can still out parse those stupid elvaans every single time. Why? Because my gear is smarter. While in some regards, you'll never outparse a good WAR with Rajas when you have a Tamas, you can still get pretty damn close. It's true I can never compare to a taru BLM or a Galka/Elvaan PLD. While gear can catch up to their strengths, they can use the same gear to increase the gap, but that's part of the game. If that wasn't there, then there would be no point to having different races other than visual appeal.