My complaint on Ayrie

[Ayrie]

Flash

I love Flash as a whm, I have flashed every party since level 45.

It generates a good amount of threat, for sure, BUT, it saves you some too by negating attacks that would otherwise cause you to have to cure. And if your tank is half decent, its nothing more than a gnat in the ear compared to his hate generation.

Why Ninja loves flash: Provides time in case images goes down, like stun, or makes their images last longer, ask Meeze, we used that to great effect.

Why Paladins should love whm flash: Balancing flashes and stuns together in a party to not overlap can severely inhibit the monsters ability to attack at all, coupled with enfeebles like slow and paralyze, you'll find your party staying at high hp and mp, and the overall flow a lot easier. But this relies on your tanking keeping hate, which typically is not a big problem in the least.

I have no issues of paladin vs ninja, I've seen great ones of both, and I've seen horrible of both. They are balanced and only as good as the player behind it, though it takes a considerable more amount of skill to balace all the tasks a Ninja has to accomplish to remain in control and alive. My issue comes when there is a breakdown in the pt as severe as the tank not tanking at all.

Wether or not he used all his mp is void. If the monk can howling fist for 400 and strip hate, and the warrior can follow it up with rampage for 300-400 and strip hate again... you have a SERIOUS problem. What happens in 3 levels when you get drks and sams slamming mobs for 1k+? Even now DRK has Guillotine. Do we just shrug and sacrifice them to the altar of doing their jobs too well? Do we sac the whm in the name of keeping the drk alive? No, the tank should be able to control this, many have before and many will in the future. Getting stripped by 400 damage midfight is inexcusable, MP or no.

 

[deathsvengeance]

Barfira, status removal, curing tanks (that don't cure themselves), and haste... all... on a sole whm? Don't you think that is a bit much? And then to fuss about it when you don't have it all? I could barfira you... but with the pld lurking at about 600 hp, I figure curing him was higher priority cause he didn't bother to do it himself. You know, that one cure 3 or 4 buys me a lot of time. Then yes, I have more time and mp to do those little things like barfira and haste the people that are not demanding my upmost attention.

As for a pld not curing... you get cure 1 and what? 5, 10? Something low... you have 55+ levels to learn how to time a cure, just like a ninja has time to learn to cast utsusemi. And believe me, juggling images and timing with 99% interruption rate is a lot harder than timing a 3 second cure cast.

Oh, and rdm/whm? That's pretty interesting you mention that... isn't rdm some sort of A at enhancing? Wouldn't a rdm/whm provide a better shield than a whm does when it comes to bar-elements? Oh, damn, forgot, I'm a 60 rdm too... what do I know?

Point of the case is: if you tax your whm, bad stuff happens, the whm is not there to be superman and make everything that's bad go away and take the blame when someone falls. Its a team sport, and we only play as well as our worst member (AHEM, Elleshar).

I repeat: Healing Magic is a paladin's BIGGEST ENMITY GENERATING TOOL, there is no excuse AT ALL to not use it. ATTACK speed is nothing.

Get over it.

I gotta say, I agree with Ayrie with what she (?) is saying. And yes, rdm is A+ enhancing magic. My Barfira on rdm/whm is better than a whm's barfira HANDS DOWN. WHM enhancing magic is C+ versus a RDM enhancing magic at B+.

 

[Akisu]

There isn't anything "wrong" with this if used properly. late battle tank has a good hate build up he's used his flash and its wore off the mob, whm can then cast it to save a few extra hits on the pld and feel safe that the tank should still have hate. escpically if he/she has just voked the mob.

of course not, but not if the pld is having hate issues as it is because of mnk firing off high damage WSs early on... flash is nice, as whm i usualy cast it when nin trying to cast ichi in place of stun if no blm, or right before a weapon uses AoE attack to make it miss everyone... but you need to watch your hate, its by tank, not by a global standard of "how they should hold hate". Ive had tanks before where if I flashed, id be dead, but still they were doing a good enough job to get good xp. Dont like it? Get a static party where you can know your tank well... when i get a pickup party, I usualy expect around 2-3k xp an hour lately, as well as atleast 2 members under equiped, or who dont really know how to play.

It's second nature to point things out, like I did to Ayrie about barfira... but you didnt just point things out to the pld, you told him he sucked right off instead of offering decent advice. How would you have liked me to say "Wtf! Give me barfira, your the worst whm ive ever had, go back to valkrum you stupid@$$"... but then again, with how you responded to "can you plz barfira for gobtosses?" im sure that would have went over real well in either direction.

i was refering to your melee attacks, i didn't notice any of your ws's. your highest melee attack on the first page(i looked over the damage on that page the first time i read this, then only looked at /p on the other pages) it compared more to a thf than a war. wars should be doing 50-90 an axe, i did look at the other pages and noticed a bit better damage from you. but looking at only the first page i came away with the impression you were a thf.

ya ya ... i know my melee isnt that great for DoT when im using my ACC viking axes, i was lowest member in pt, was having trouble hitting, so i threw on my viking axe for +10 acc, was mainly relying on SC + MB, if you want to see real damage, come watch me on toramas *sp?*... they more my lvl range anyway. ill try the jack-o-lanterns, Ive been using Sole Sushi for str bonus on rampage, but still miss alot on Cocktrice mobs... specialy when they are IT+ because i might have been a tad' low for that zone... gave it a shot though.

My post wasnt about this pt, it was good xp compaired to most others, was nice to have a decent party w/out stupidity at first... but then everything exploded... the pld was decent... yes, i can say ive had alot better plds, but ive also had worse.. like ones who wear level 40 gear at 60+ and still dont have all their cure spells...

My post was about great annoyances... like this whm who whines for an hour strait, witholds status cures to the pld, while complaining hes not voking enough or flashing, or curing, when hes not being hasted to reduce voke/flash timer, let alone getting stona to actually be ABLE to use the job abilitys, or flash spells. If you want to leave, great leave. Just dont leave everyone without a whm, let alone to die.

Barfira, status removal, curing tanks (that don't cure themselves), and haste... all... on a sole whm?

.... obviously youve never been in cannon pt before, try it, then come back and talk. Nin, War, Rng, Rng, Rng, Whm on weapons... shadows dont always work against weapons using AoE attacks... talk about a workout on mp... Yes, its possible, just ballance your mp per fight, get a haste order going and time it, and keep up bar-whatever if needed. Infact its easy to grab a few ticks of mp between haste cycles.

 

[Rones]

I gotta say, I agree with Ayrie with what she (?) is saying. And yes, rdm is A+ enhancing magic. My Barfira on rdm/whm is better than a whm's barfira HANDS DOWN. WHM enhancing magic is C+ versus a RDM enhancing magic at B+.

Until whm gets relic hands and legs. I outperform rdms now with my barfira. ;-)

 

[Akisu]

I gotta say, I agree with Ayrie with what she (?) is saying. And yes, rdm is A+ enhancing magic. My Barfira on rdm/whm is better than a whm's barfira HANDS DOWN. WHM enhancing magic is C+ versus a RDM enhancing magic at B+.

/nod... but asking in pt, "Can we get a barfira" and having the whm explode about "telling her how to play her job"... instead of the whm going "Rdm, can you plz barfira instead? Yours has higher cap, and works better then mine. Thx." Isnt the way to go about it.

 

[Ayrie]

Heh

400 damage is not a lot, for you perhaps... but I know jobs that can fire that off twice as hard. And comparing what we had to a cannon pt is completely ignorant. We're not a cannot, we're not built to destroy a mob in 15 secs, greatly reducing the need for a lot of healing, status removal, and the such. We are built to survive the mob... do cannons even use pally? I don't think they do, but I may be wrong. Anyways, stop applying rules that don't apply to the topic. Cannon != typical xp pt. Different rules.

Wow... I cannot believe that... "in a cannon pt".

And as for haste cycle... sure... but who's keeping the paladin alive? Surely its not him.

 

[meeze]

quotes from akisu

"its by tank, not by a global standard of "how they should hold hate". Ive had tanks before where if I flashed, id be dead"

One reason I enjoy leveling with ayrie is because she knows what she wants and asks/tells the party what is expected of them. i am very similar in that regard, the first time she asked me to xp, i asked her if she had erase, she got offended lol. we found what worked and when we partied after that we explained to every member what thier specific job was within that particular party. we rarely had problems because of this in terms of xp/hr even when we were without rdm/brd. chain 5'n raptors with no refresh is pretty nice, the way they ripped threw my shadows i thought we were gonners, but we showed them what was up.

Tanks should have a global standard, and you as a party leader/member should hold them to a standard. i know this society is anti-confrontation but showing a player how to be more effective can create faster fights, less down time and in turn more xp/hr.

"a ya ... i know my melee isnt that great for DoT when im using my ACC viking axes, i was lowest member in pt, was having trouble hitting, so i threw on my viking axe for +10 acc, was mainly relying on SC + MB, if you want to see real damage, come watch me on toramas *sp?*... they more my lvl range anyway. ill try the jack-o-lanterns, Ive been using Sole Sushi for str bonus on rampage, but still miss alot on Cocktrice mobs... specialy when they are IT+ because i might have been a tad' low for that zone... gave it a shot though. "

Another example of the party leadership forming this pt wrong and letting it run its course. Although it isn't your fault for being the lowest, missing so much as a melee where you are sc'n gimps the xp/hr of your party. your tank and melee should be the highest or second highest levels in a xp party. mages can fit anywhere in there. the party leader should know that bringing a meleer where that person may not be effective could result in a bad experience.

stick to sushi at that level, jacks are ineffective as acc food to melee somewhere in the 30s.

 

[deathsvengeance]

Until whm gets relic hands and legs. I outperform rdms now with my barfira. ;-)

ok ... clerics mitts: MP+20, emnity -3, enfeebling skill+15, enhances "banish" potency...

Clerics duckbills: MP+18, mnd+5, emnity-1, enhancing magic skill+10

Versus...

Dualist's gloves: MP+18, Int+4, Magic Def. Bonus+2, Enhancing Magic Skill +15

Warlock's tights: MP+13, mnd+3, healing magic skill+10, enhancing magic skill+15

Warlock's tabard: MP+14, chr+5, spell interruption rate -10%, enfeebling magic skill+15..

Exactly how are you outperforming a red mage? I'm asking seriously because I just don't see it lol. I also didn't add in duelist's chapeau, that's another +15 to enfeebling magic.. but wouldn't that still put rdm skill above whm skill in enhancing? I mean, our skill is B+ whm is C+, we get +30 to enhancing magic skill.. you get +10 ... ok so RDM enhancing caps at 256 for lvl 75 (add 30 to that, that's 286) and whm enhancing caps at 230 for lvl 75 (adding the 10 to that, and that's only 240..)..

As far as enfeebling goes lol... well, no point in going there, rdm is still better than whm at that. I am not arguing that whm aren't good at these things, simply that rdm are better at them and when I was agreeing with Ayrie, it was that rdm barfira is stronger than a whms and that yeah, the rdm should have stepped up to better fill the gap.

 

[Braydon]

From a Paladin's point of view

One- Sometimes it can be damn near impossible to get spells off. Fighting Torimas in the Orizono(sp), they paraylize, silence, and hit so damn fast that it can be the case.

Two If you have a problem with ANY one's preferomace, the time to address it is not durring the fight. After the mob drops, talk to people. Your goal is to imporve the party performance, not yell at someone.

Three Warping out durring a fight is bush league. Your fucking over 5 other people when you do that. There is NO justification for it.

 

[deathsvengeance]

ok ... clerics mitts: MP+20, emnity -3, enfeebling skill+15, enhances "banish" potency...

Clerics duckbills: MP+18, mnd+5, emnity-1, enhancing magic skill+10

Versus...

Dualist's gloves: MP+18, Int+4, Magic Def. Bonus+2, Enhancing Magic Skill +15

Warlock's tights: MP+13, mnd+3, healing magic skill+10, enhancing magic skill+15

Warlock's tabard: MP+14, chr+5, spell interruption rate -10%, enfeebling magic skill+15..

Exactly how are you outperforming a red mage? I'm asking seriously because I just don't see it lol. I also didn't add in duelist's chapeau, that's another +15 to enfeebling magic.. but wouldn't that still put rdm skill above whm skill in enhancing? I mean, our skill is B+ whm is C+, we get +30 to enhancing magic skill.. you get +10 ... ok so RDM enhancing caps at 256 for lvl 75 (add 30 to that, that's 286) and whm enhancing caps at 230 for lvl 75 (adding the 10 to that, and that's only 240..)..

As far as enfeebling goes lol... well, no point in going there, rdm is still better than whm at that. I am not arguing that whm aren't good at these things, simply that rdm are better at them and when I was agreeing with Ayrie, it was that rdm barfira is stronger than a whms and that yeah, the rdm should have stepped up to better fill the gap.

I didn't meant to post mitts ~_~ I meant to post the legs lol ...

Cleric's Pantaloons

• MP +17
• Enmity -2
• Healing Magic Skill +15
• Enhances Effect Of Elemental Resistance Spells

OK so having corrected that... you get +10 to enhancing skill still.. lol

that is all, just correcting my mistake, and ignore the enfeebling stuff, I distracted myself XD

 

[Akisu]

400 damage is not a lot, for you perhaps... but I know jobs that can fire that off twice as hard. And comparing what we had to a cannon pt is completely ignorant. We're not a cannot, we're not built to destroy a mob in 15 secs, greatly reducing the need for a lot of healing, status removal, and the such. We are built to survive the mob... do cannons even use pally? I don't think they do, but I may be wrong. Anyways, stop applying rules that don't apply to the topic. Cannon != typical xp pt. Different rules.

Wow... I cannot believe that... "in a cannon pt".

And as for haste cycle... sure... but who's keeping the paladin alive? Surely its not him.

Umm... comprehension skills, (Do you need it?) Your talking about having problems taking care of our party as the only whm. I stated that if your having problems with this party managing your spells etc, then don't even bother with a cannon party. I was in no way compairing the two.

400 damage not the best? No kidding, didn't I just say that? If you want a good DD go find a well equipped rng or drk, even a mnk. As long as they have good gear that is. Now if you want a fast TP build and average damage... who can pull with shadows (like this pt happened to need pulling raptors sometimes), go find a war, sam, or thf or one of those types of mid range DD jobs.

And who is keeping the pld alive? That would be you, its your job as whm, are you going to debate that? Its also your job to haste and buff party, as well as debuff mobs. Seriously, if you can't handle hasting 2-3 members every other fight, casting a regen, then a few cures between... your either not doing something right, or your just plain lazy.

And Meeze, That's great that you got such a nice party where you all worked so well together. Unfortunatly, I don't work so well with hypocrits who complain about them being told how to play, then going off on others in the party for their faults. Sure, the party leader could have done a better job, but it was just a quick pickup party, not anything out of the ordinary. XP is XP.

If you want hardcore fast XP, go build yourself a cannon, or awesome static party, like the kind I was so fortunate to get for a short while on my whm.

If not, expect to get partys sometime that *arent* the best. Still, that's no reason to attack someone over it continualy for an hour, dragging everyone who wanted to continue through your little game of "should I stona? or keep harrassing him for not provoking..." for an hour, then warp out leaving us with a slept mob, and a rdm and blm with no mp, then continue to insult the pld before disbanding as we try to run to zone.

 

[Ayrie]

Meeze

Its true! I was baffled that he asked me did I have Erase! lol. But yes, I am very abrasive, I hold everyone to my standards, the standards I set and hold for myself. Not so much for gear, but if your gear affects your performance, and in this case it was, yes, I will make comment on it. But when it comes down to something as simple as skill, I will be the first to let someone know when they are slacking. And that is just what I did.

I've been called too anal, and I am a perfectionist, but I get results. I left that party and went on to gain 20k xp in one party. I wouldn't call that too shabby for a pathetic whm with another pally tank.

But if I must be branded as the villian for this, so be it. Yeah, I warped without proper notice. But really? Could you not see it coming? My first impulse was to warp when Elleshar got stoned and let you all die. And lord knows I really wanted to, but I cast reraise 2, unstoned him, and stuck it out til afterwards, then left. And as we all saw, the reason I left was the paladin. So yeah, I'll be the meanie for this.

Oh, and I love your signature Meeze! I laugh every time I see it.

 

[Ayrie]

Even More Ignorance

Wow, you keep spewing it. Good god, enfeebling now too? You know a whm has about a snowballs chance in hell of landing any enfeeble. ESPECIALLY with a rdm hanging out. We're like a fat C+ at best with enfeebling. The only debuff a whm can land with regularity is Dia, lol. And I realize I am keeping the paladin alive, its my whole bitch here... and you want haste, and barspells, and debuffs, and enhances. Look, I dunno what hole you crawled out of, but you need to go crawl back in it.

Look me up when YOU learn the rules.

 

[meeze]

And Meeze, That's great that you got such a nice party where you all worked so well together. Unfortunatly, I don't work so well with hypocrits who complain about them being told how to play, then going off on others in the party for their faults. Sure, the party leader could have done a better job, but it was just a quick pickup party, not anything out of the ordinary. XP is XP.

If you want hardcore fast XP, go build yourself a cannon, or awesome static party, like the kind I was so fortunate to get for a short while on my whm.

It wasn't one party, it was a string of parties that we had together. we consistantly asked/told the other members what thier role was in that party to get the most xp possible. our minimum was 4k an hour, and we reached about 5.5k/hr. those are pick ups, there is absolutely no reason you can't let players know the most effective way to play thier job for that particular situation.

There is a reason I get through the dunes with only a few hours of being there, there is a reason I don't think of some of these places the hell holes the majority of the community thinks are. when i party i have high expectations of everyone, and if they don't live up to them, i'll replace them or i'll leave the party. it is a waste of time to get 2k an hour because mediocre players continue to play mediocre and "good" players sit back and say nothing in /p but cry like babies to /l about how crappy certain players are.

 

[deathsvengeance]

Wow, you keep spewing it. Good god, enfeebling now too? You know a whm has about a snowballs chance in hell of landing any enfeeble. ESPECIALLY with a rdm hanging out. We're like a fat C+ at best with enfeebling. The only debuff a whm can land with regularity is Dia, lol. And I realize I am keeping the paladin alive, its my whole bitch here... and you want haste, and barspells, and debuffs, and enhances. Look, I dunno what hole you crawled out of, but you need to go crawl back in it.

Look me up when YOU learn the rules.

are you talking to me? lol I was agreeing with you, anyway I was posting in response to Rones, but I contacted him in game and we had our chat

 

[Ayrie]

Eili

No no, not you hon... she (Akisu) mentioned whm should debuff too! Wow... hehe, sorry for the confusion. And I appreciate the defense. I know what I am talking about, from time to time. ^^

 

[deathsvengeance]

lol ok, but yes, whm can debuff, they just have a better chance of being resisted. If its VT, low IT, whm can debuff para and slow easy

 

[Panda]

haha, after reading all this, im really suprised you stayed in the party as long as you did.

the party sucked, and some people werent doing their jobs. The jobs that you asked the whm to do usually in my parties were split up between the magic casters and i normally would figure that out before we fought.

Your party, and especially your paladin, sucked, Akisu, is what it came down to. No WHM (who knows whats good for them or knows what they are doing) is going to waste their time on a party like that. If she was complaining that long without any of those issues being resolved than you have no right to complain about her leaving.

 

[Rones]

ok ... clerics mitts: MP+20, emnity -3, enfeebling skill+15, enhances "banish" potency...

Clerics duckbills: MP+18, mnd+5, emnity-1, enhancing magic skill+10

Versus...

Dualist's gloves: MP+18, Int+4, Magic Def. Bonus+2, Enhancing Magic Skill +15

Warlock's tights: MP+13, mnd+3, healing magic skill+10, enhancing magic skill+15

Warlock's tabard: MP+14, chr+5, spell interruption rate -10%, enfeebling magic skill+15..

Exactly how are you outperforming a red mage? I'm asking seriously because I just don't see it lol. I also didn't add in duelist's chapeau, that's another +15 to enfeebling magic.. but wouldn't that still put rdm skill above whm skill in enhancing? I mean, our skill is B+ whm is C+, we get +30 to enhancing magic skill.. you get +10 ... ok so RDM enhancing caps at 256 for lvl 75 (add 30 to that, that's 286) and whm enhancing caps at 230 for lvl 75 (adding the 10 to that, and that's only 240..)..

I'm sorry, I meant to post legs and feet. Feet have +10 enhancing skill. Legs have +20 bar spell effect (not enhancing). As I discussed in game with you I have 108 bar element resistance from the spell and those +enhancments (no elemental resistance gear) which was higher than your rdm could get. That was also without enhancing torqe. For rdm to match the +20 bar effect from whm relic pants, they need +100 enhancing skill because 5 enhancing ~= 1 bar resistance.

 

[Ayrie]

Debuffing

I've had nothing but problems from debuffs, but right around the 150xp mark I get noticibly better. A shame people don't really get interested in that kind of camping til 73+. I wonder how debufing came up though... she wants me to debuff with a rdm hanging out? I took that as a given that I wouldn't be required to do it along with every other thing in the book with a rdm hanging out.

Besides, half the rdms I've partied with have been pretty cool about haste too. But Haste cycle, debuffing, healing, status, enhancing... it all drains a whm real fast... especially when you heap it all on them. Xp drops like a rock, people get irritable cause you're always waiting on mp. I'm not bitching about having to do it all, it is my job... but I've come to expect paladins to help with the healing (its how they tank), and rdms to handle debuffs and perhaps help out a little with healing and enhances, they do have a better font of mp with convert and all.

Just my two cents... there is no reason to tax a whm so nastily with a pld and rdm in the pt that can ease that burden and make things flow smoother, thereby raising efficiency. ^^