Cecilx said:
My understanding is that we expect it to be decriminalized... not legalized. I really doubt Canada is going to legalize pot anytime soon, which is fine... Decriminalization would probably see us further in the long run.
My Rant on legalization and decriminalization of Marijuana.
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My understanding is that we expect it to be decriminalized... not legalized. I really doubt Canada is going to legalize pot anytime soon, which is fine... Decriminalization would probably see us further in the long run.
More than just pot should be decriminalized. There needs to be more treatment and less jail time. Drug addicts need to be treated like they have medical problems and not like they are criminals.
This might go off topic a little....
I was a heroin addict from age 15-20. When I was 20 I was arrested for posession. I sat in jail for 2 months waiting to be sentenced. As I stood in front of the judge he told me I was gonna get 3 years in prison at least. Thats when my Public Defender told me about a new rehabilitation program the county was offering called "Drug Court." Very harsh 2 year program but better than prison in my opinion. I got into it and screwed up a lot at first. It was hard because all I knew was drugs and didn't know how to live normally. I learned a lot and completed the 2 year program. I am still clean today at 25. My friends that didn't get treatment like me are in prison now... or dead. I had 6 very good friends, from when I was a kid, die in 6 months last year. I am still alive. I got treatment, they did not. My best friend is strung out, my brother, everyone I grew up with it seems like, are fucked. I hope they get the same chance I got before they die.
Prison and jails do not fucking work. I would have never learned how to live like a normal person w/ out the program I went through. My friends might still be alive if they weren't sent to prisons and jails.
Now pot on the other hand should be totally legal and taxed. If alcohol is legal, why make another drug (ALCOHOL IS A DRUG) that is not as bad, illegal (POT). We could make a shitload of money from taxing weed, and food stock would probably skyrocket as well :wink: Saying pot is a gateway drug... that's bullshit.
I smoke weed 0-3 times a week. I drink every now and again. I don't touch anything else. I've done every drug you can think of, sold them, been strung out on them. Pot should be legal and other drugs decriminalized. I've had 10+ friends die from drugs and alcohol. Not one of those deaths was from getting stoned.
This might go off topic a little....
I was a heroin addict from age 15-20. When I was 20 I was arrested for posession. I sat in jail for 2 months waiting to be sentenced. As I stood in front of the judge he told me I was gonna get 3 years in prison at least. Thats when my Public Defender told me about a new rehabilitation program the county was offering called "Drug Court." Very harsh 2 year program but better than prison in my opinion. I got into it and screwed up a lot at first. It was hard because all I knew was drugs and didn't know how to live normally. I learned a lot and completed the 2 year program. I am still clean today at 25. My friends that didn't get treatment like me are in prison now... or dead. I had 6 very good friends, from when I was a kid, die in 6 months last year. I am still alive. I got treatment, they did not. My best friend is strung out, my brother, everyone I grew up with it seems like, are fucked. I hope they get the same chance I got before they die.
Prison and jails do not fucking work. I would have never learned how to live like a normal person w/ out the program I went through. My friends might still be alive if they weren't sent to prisons and jails.
Now pot on the other hand should be totally legal and taxed. If alcohol is legal, why make another drug (ALCOHOL IS A DRUG) that is not as bad, illegal (POT). We could make a shitload of money from taxing weed, and food stock would probably skyrocket as well :wink: Saying pot is a gateway drug... that's bullshit.
I smoke weed 0-3 times a week. I drink every now and again. I don't touch anything else. I've done every drug you can think of, sold them, been strung out on them. Pot should be legal and other drugs decriminalized. I've had 10+ friends die from drugs and alcohol. Not one of those deaths was from getting stoned.
Wow that last post I had a LOT of issues with. I'm gonna voice them cause that is the point and I'm going to piss off a lot of people while doing it, but well, this is how I feel.
Pot I dont care about. Legalize it, tax it, make penalties for driving while using it. It is proven to lower reaction time and based off my one use of it, I can agree. I'm sure you learn to adjust but still, it slows you down, therefor is a danger to driving. It hurts nobody except a small few and frankly, if you are going to throw your life away because of it, go right ahead. Do like the commercials do and sit in your parents basement all day smoking doing nothing with life. That is gonna be a RARE case and the benefits outweigh the minuses. Along with it, make drunked driving a harsh penalty and lower the drinking age. Ridiculous that we can fight wars for our country and not drink. 18 makes much more sense...off topic I know but damn. I am so sick and tired of hearing about drunk drivers getting off with nothing. You risk my life and the lives of others. I say make the crime attempted murder. Would cut down on drunken driving a LOT really quickly.
Moving on. I would like to respond to the above poster, Onions. Yeah this is gonna come off harsh but the way I view things, we are destroying ourselves slowly. Decriminalizing other drugs is completely and utterly bad. It would serve no purpose other than to prompt more people to try it. There would be a LOT more I guarantee you if they legalized many of them. People that are nervous about breaking the law and getting caught would not have to worry anymore and problems would compound. As for creating more rehabilitation centers and such...this is where its gonna piss people off.....why? Why should we waste money on people who dont respect themselves enough to take care of themselves. Taxpayers such as myself should pour money into centers to help people who are hooked on drugs that they should have never been doing in the first place? Give me ONE good reason why. By doing these drugs, they are endangering my safety. Who knows when someone will steal my car or break into my house to get money for their next fix. As far as people dying from said drugs, they caused it. Everyone pretty much knows that drugs addict. I am not trying to be cruel, I am not rubbing your friends deaths into yours or anyone else's face, I am just asking you why we should blow more money to help them break a habit that they should have known not to start in the first place. I have been addicted to things. I broke out of them by sheer willpower. Some were harder than others, and some I have not accomplished yet. But none are NEARLY as bad as heroin, cocaine, etc. If people die from these addictions, well, that is one more burden on society gone.
Again not trying to be cruel, I am just thinking about the good of humanity in general. Take "modern medicine" for example. By saving all these weakened people who would otherwise die prematurely, we are weaking ourselves. By allowing them to survive and procreate, their offspring will have as much of, if not MORE of a chance to be weakened and further weaken us as a species. By "saving" all these people who fall prey to drugs and such, we weaken the next generation. They will be more likely to fall prey to drugs and destroy themselves and others. Mine is a very rational, not emotional, view of the world. We make everything easier on ourselves, to the point where we dont even have to leave our houses to grocery shop anymore for god's sakes! I was able to stave off peer presure and anything else you might want to claim causes people to do drugs. I get my "highs" other places than having to make myself a slave to drugs. I hate having to wear contacts to see, much less freak out cause I didnt get my fix. Boiling the argument down, why should I, or the rest of people who don't become a slave to drugs care what happens to those who do? Its not selfishness or heartlessness, I feel bad for people who do. I just look at the big picture and think, "Wow with all those hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on rehabilitating people, and the drug war, we could have accomplished something well and truly great. That is too bad."
My point is purely Darwinistic. Survival of the fittest. I would not be in the fittest. I have imperfect vision. That is a much smaller flaw than these drug addicts bring to society though. I pay for my OWN contacts and such. These drug addicts rely on the community as a whole for survival and help. So that is about it. I hope that my argument was made clear, although rather long. Pot is not a problem, it would help more to legalize it, other drugs it would not. I'm sorry if I pissed you or anyone else off with these opinions, but there is a great deal of relevence to them you must admit. Look at it with open eyes and contemplate the truth of it. You might not like it, but there is nothing but rational truth to my argument.
This is mainly due the the generation previous to most of us. From about 1900-1970, I think Global Warming has sped up about 80%. Our parents and their parents had the facts but chose to ignore them and leave us with the burden. On a completely insignificant tangent though....cutting down trees and burning them makes little difference....I believe they provide about 20% of the worlds oxygen. The other portion comes from algae in the oceans. They will die if the average tempature rises just 3-4 degrees in the worlds oceans and THAT, my friend, is when we will be screwed.
Again I did not mean to offend anyone with my views, just putting out a more rational view to things ^^.
Pot I dont care about. Legalize it, tax it, make penalties for driving while using it. It is proven to lower reaction time and based off my one use of it, I can agree. I'm sure you learn to adjust but still, it slows you down, therefor is a danger to driving. It hurts nobody except a small few and frankly, if you are going to throw your life away because of it, go right ahead. Do like the commercials do and sit in your parents basement all day smoking doing nothing with life. That is gonna be a RARE case and the benefits outweigh the minuses. Along with it, make drunked driving a harsh penalty and lower the drinking age. Ridiculous that we can fight wars for our country and not drink. 18 makes much more sense...off topic I know but damn. I am so sick and tired of hearing about drunk drivers getting off with nothing. You risk my life and the lives of others. I say make the crime attempted murder. Would cut down on drunken driving a LOT really quickly.
Moving on. I would like to respond to the above poster, Onions. Yeah this is gonna come off harsh but the way I view things, we are destroying ourselves slowly. Decriminalizing other drugs is completely and utterly bad. It would serve no purpose other than to prompt more people to try it. There would be a LOT more I guarantee you if they legalized many of them. People that are nervous about breaking the law and getting caught would not have to worry anymore and problems would compound. As for creating more rehabilitation centers and such...this is where its gonna piss people off.....why? Why should we waste money on people who dont respect themselves enough to take care of themselves. Taxpayers such as myself should pour money into centers to help people who are hooked on drugs that they should have never been doing in the first place? Give me ONE good reason why. By doing these drugs, they are endangering my safety. Who knows when someone will steal my car or break into my house to get money for their next fix. As far as people dying from said drugs, they caused it. Everyone pretty much knows that drugs addict. I am not trying to be cruel, I am not rubbing your friends deaths into yours or anyone else's face, I am just asking you why we should blow more money to help them break a habit that they should have known not to start in the first place. I have been addicted to things. I broke out of them by sheer willpower. Some were harder than others, and some I have not accomplished yet. But none are NEARLY as bad as heroin, cocaine, etc. If people die from these addictions, well, that is one more burden on society gone.
Again not trying to be cruel, I am just thinking about the good of humanity in general. Take "modern medicine" for example. By saving all these weakened people who would otherwise die prematurely, we are weaking ourselves. By allowing them to survive and procreate, their offspring will have as much of, if not MORE of a chance to be weakened and further weaken us as a species. By "saving" all these people who fall prey to drugs and such, we weaken the next generation. They will be more likely to fall prey to drugs and destroy themselves and others. Mine is a very rational, not emotional, view of the world. We make everything easier on ourselves, to the point where we dont even have to leave our houses to grocery shop anymore for god's sakes! I was able to stave off peer presure and anything else you might want to claim causes people to do drugs. I get my "highs" other places than having to make myself a slave to drugs. I hate having to wear contacts to see, much less freak out cause I didnt get my fix. Boiling the argument down, why should I, or the rest of people who don't become a slave to drugs care what happens to those who do? Its not selfishness or heartlessness, I feel bad for people who do. I just look at the big picture and think, "Wow with all those hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on rehabilitating people, and the drug war, we could have accomplished something well and truly great. That is too bad."
My point is purely Darwinistic. Survival of the fittest. I would not be in the fittest. I have imperfect vision. That is a much smaller flaw than these drug addicts bring to society though. I pay for my OWN contacts and such. These drug addicts rely on the community as a whole for survival and help. So that is about it. I hope that my argument was made clear, although rather long. Pot is not a problem, it would help more to legalize it, other drugs it would not. I'm sorry if I pissed you or anyone else off with these opinions, but there is a great deal of relevence to them you must admit. Look at it with open eyes and contemplate the truth of it. You might not like it, but there is nothing but rational truth to my argument.
This is mainly due the the generation previous to most of us. From about 1900-1970, I think Global Warming has sped up about 80%. Our parents and their parents had the facts but chose to ignore them and leave us with the burden. On a completely insignificant tangent though....cutting down trees and burning them makes little difference....I believe they provide about 20% of the worlds oxygen. The other portion comes from algae in the oceans. They will die if the average tempature rises just 3-4 degrees in the worlds oceans and THAT, my friend, is when we will be screwed.
Again I did not mean to offend anyone with my views, just putting out a more rational view to things ^^.
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i completely agree with your darwinistic view on society Faed, i've believed the same thing for quite some time. I've actually had teachers yell at me and call me cold and heartless because of it. But really, if we were that interested in bettering our race as a whole, perhaps even to the point of evolution (should our race survive that long), we wouldn't save those born with genetic abnormalities or those who bring our race down as a whole. I have nothing against those who are born like that, and i don't think we should go around killing people or aborting babies or anything for the sake of our race, because it just seems wrong to me, but the cold hard truth is exactly as you have presented it. At the same time, i see why we do save them, and that is due to emotional ties with those who are afflicted. I also agree that pot should be legalized, taxed and whatnot, no need for me to go into great detail as i believe most of the arguements were already presented, and at this point it would be just reitterating what everyone else said. As far as the harer drugs and rehabilitation, i do understand your point of view, but think of the money that could be made/taxed from a productive member of society should they be rehabilitated instead of killed. However, i think it has to be their choice, not forced into it. If they want to stop, then they have to do it and take responsibility for their actions. Instead of the gov't paying to rehabilitate junkies, they should be made to pay for it. It would have to be relatively inexpensive of course, but if they can't afford rehabilitation, what business do they have doing drugs in the first place?
Yes, i smoke pot. I'm open about it, i don't care who knows. If i go to jail, so be it, it was my decision to do something illegal and i am ready and willing to do my time and take responsibility for my actions. That's a lot of the problem with society nowadays......lack of responsibility, but that's a rant for another time i suppose.
Yes, i smoke pot. I'm open about it, i don't care who knows. If i go to jail, so be it, it was my decision to do something illegal and i am ready and willing to do my time and take responsibility for my actions. That's a lot of the problem with society nowadays......lack of responsibility, but that's a rant for another time i suppose.
just because it's related . . .
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/11/26/732065.html
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/11/26/732065.html
that's because it's intrusive
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Dirgesong said:
Alright I was joking a little, but since you made the comment...
The anti-smoking bans going around the country are getting insane. I am a smoker. I understand restaurants completely! But bars and bowling alleys? Give me a break. I seriously think that they should seperate restaurants from other places when considering bans. I dont know about other parts of the country, but around here, the majority of people that go to bars smoke.
The thing that gets the biggest laugh out of me is Vegas (My absolute FAVORITE city btw). There you can smoke at the pool, blackjack tables, other gaming tables, slots, etc, but you cant light up at the poker tables? The funny thing is that what I noticed is that most of the players were smokers.
I think bars are to much, as an ex-smoker I understand your position.
But I think any public place where people under the legal age to buy cigarettes are allowed should be non-smoking.
But I think any public place where people under the legal age to buy cigarettes are allowed should be non-smoking.
A lot of different viewpoints here.
Ok, I'll start off with this, because it's the easiest one:
To those of you that are criticizing Bush's policy on fossil fuels, just remember this: The Bush administration has dumped more money into hydrogen fuel cell research than any other administration in history. Granted, he's probably just trying to get his hand in the pocket of every source of energy, but if it means in a few years we can fill our cars up with water instead of gas, I have no gripe with it.
Next, people talking about smoking bans. I have allergy asthma. If I'm around cigarettes for a prolonged period of time, I won't be able to breathe, which is a problem. If you want to smoke, go ahead, just don't do it around me.
I wholeheartedly agree with whoever said to just legalize marijuana and tax the shit out of it. I live in Rhode Island, which has the highest tax in the country on cigarettes. There's a disgusting amount of money to be made here.
Ok, now I go into Biology robot mode. I will now reason that marijuana should be legal because of its nature. Morphine is a legal drug prescribed for pain. It functions by emulating the hormone seratonin, which controls mood. A lot of people think of ecstacy when they hear seratonin, because that drug releases your natural seratonin to cause euphoria. The difference between morphine and ecstacy is that morphine does not use up all of your natural seratonin, and therefore does not cause depression or brain damage after it wears off. At any rate, the drug THC in marijuana functions in the same way as morphine, by emulating hormones. Most drugs found in nature are used as natural defense mechanisms. By getting people or animals high, they get too distracted to keep eating the plants. The only damage that marijuana deals now is through smoking it, which is the same thing as cigarettes, but tobacco contains many many more carcinogenics than marijuana. Biology robot mode disabled.
The government likes to manipulate statistics as well. For example, anytime someone dies in the emergency room while he or she had marijuana in his/her system, the government will use them as a statistic for death caused by marijuana, even if the death had nothing to do with it.
Fae, or should I say Mr. Thomas Malthus, put yourself in other peoples' positions. Are you saying that you don't want medicine available if you or your friends or relatives get sick? I understand your viewpoint, I just think that there's a gaping flaw.
Done now.
Ok, I'll start off with this, because it's the easiest one:
To those of you that are criticizing Bush's policy on fossil fuels, just remember this: The Bush administration has dumped more money into hydrogen fuel cell research than any other administration in history. Granted, he's probably just trying to get his hand in the pocket of every source of energy, but if it means in a few years we can fill our cars up with water instead of gas, I have no gripe with it.
Next, people talking about smoking bans. I have allergy asthma. If I'm around cigarettes for a prolonged period of time, I won't be able to breathe, which is a problem. If you want to smoke, go ahead, just don't do it around me.
I wholeheartedly agree with whoever said to just legalize marijuana and tax the shit out of it. I live in Rhode Island, which has the highest tax in the country on cigarettes. There's a disgusting amount of money to be made here.
Ok, now I go into Biology robot mode. I will now reason that marijuana should be legal because of its nature. Morphine is a legal drug prescribed for pain. It functions by emulating the hormone seratonin, which controls mood. A lot of people think of ecstacy when they hear seratonin, because that drug releases your natural seratonin to cause euphoria. The difference between morphine and ecstacy is that morphine does not use up all of your natural seratonin, and therefore does not cause depression or brain damage after it wears off. At any rate, the drug THC in marijuana functions in the same way as morphine, by emulating hormones. Most drugs found in nature are used as natural defense mechanisms. By getting people or animals high, they get too distracted to keep eating the plants. The only damage that marijuana deals now is through smoking it, which is the same thing as cigarettes, but tobacco contains many many more carcinogenics than marijuana. Biology robot mode disabled.
The government likes to manipulate statistics as well. For example, anytime someone dies in the emergency room while he or she had marijuana in his/her system, the government will use them as a statistic for death caused by marijuana, even if the death had nothing to do with it.
Fae, or should I say Mr. Thomas Malthus, put yourself in other peoples' positions. Are you saying that you don't want medicine available if you or your friends or relatives get sick? I understand your viewpoint, I just think that there's a gaping flaw.
Done now.
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Mohoso said:
United States Constitution - Article 6 (Supremacy Clause)
Clause 2. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which
shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which
shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the
supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound
thereby; any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the
Contrary notwithstanding.
This is Mr. Rosenthal's problem. When state and federal laws conflict, the federal law is applied, assuming the federal law is constitutionally enacted in the first place. The exact operation of this depends on whether Congress has preempted a given area of the law or has allowed for concurrent Federal/State jurisdiction. Congress has not preempted the area of drug control legislation and as such the states are allowed to make and enforce their own laws regarding drugs. But because the laws are concurrent, they are independently enforceable.
Many states have Marijuana laws more lenient than those of the federal government. In New York, for example, possession of less than 1 ounce of Marijuana is not a crime. It IS punishable by a fine of $100 for a first offense, but no imprisonment is authorized. It is legally less serious than speeding (which is punishable by a fine and/or up to 15 days in jail). Furthermore, cultivation of small amounts of marijuana in New York is a misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and up to $1000 fine.
Under Federal law, on the other hand, cultivation of Marijuana is a felony in most cases. If you are caught cultivating marijuana in New York, although you are breaking both a Federal and a State law, you are likely to be prosecuted only in state court for a misdemeanor. Because of concurrent Federal/State jurisdiction however, you COULD be prosecuted in Federal Court as a felony. This rarely happens though because Federal prosecutors tend to only go after the big fish, and they leave it to the states to prosecute the small fry.
Where did Mr. Rosenthal go wrong? He got caught in the middle of a territorial pissing match between the State and Federal governments. There have been official condemnations of state legislation such as those of California and Arizona, from the White house, under both the Clinton and Bush administrations. (Ironic that the party of "local control" would oppose state legislation)
Mr. Rosenthal was likely only prosecuted in Federal Court because he was cultivating marijuana in violation of Federal law, in a state which had decriminalized marijuana cultivation in certain circumstances. Thus the Federal Prosecutors could not rely on the State of California to deal with the "small fry" and felt compelled to assert the Federal Government's supremacy.
As Pascal correctly and succinctly put it, Mr. Rosenthal was not allowed to present those defenses because under Federal Law they were irrelevant. His defenses would have been perfectly relevant if he had been charged with a state crime. But under the Federal laws, there are no exceptions based upon medical necessity.
Regarding Faed's post.
I don't have to much time to comment 'cause I'm at work (THATS RIGHT, I PAY TAXES AND HAVE A GOOD JOB AND GUESS WHAT... I USED TO BE A DRUG ADDICT!) and I just scanned your post.
First off, why don't you look into paying taxes on Rehabilitation Centers vs. Prison. Rehabilitation ends being cheaper in the long run which is why all around America people have started to think differently about prison and its cost. You think keeping someone in prison is cheap? How much money do we pump into prisons? Would we save money from decriminalizing drugs? Think about it Darwin.
BTW, I didn't say legalize all drugs, I said decriminalize them. So people could get treatment instead of prison.
Um, you put the drug war and rehabilitation in the same sentence dude. the drug war is what we've been pumping money into for years... has it been working? Rehabilitation is a fairly new idea. The drug program I was in is a very new state funded program. It has a very high success rate and I am living proof. My 6 or so very close friends I went through it with are all clean now. I know some people that didn't get clean that went through it, but nothing is 100 percent.
There has been some MAJOR contributions to society that came from drug addicts. One of the most influential surgeons of all time was a cocaine addict. Their are countless addicts in the art & entertainment world. Some of the greatest authors ever were addicts. A president of a certain country had cocaine and booze problems (still an assshole).
Now I believe in Darwin's theories, but I am no Social Darwinist. Do you know what Social Darwinism is? Do you know who else had "rational truth" in their ideology? Hmmm.... maybe... the Nazis? Social Darwinism was used as a cause to kill and sterilize Blacks, Jews, Drug Addicts, Alcoholics, Genetic Disease Carriers, Etc... Now I am not saying you are a Nazi, but it started as survival of the fittest and turned into kill the weak so we grow faster. Also, when was the last time you met a cat who was strung out on cat nip, I don't see how you could bring Darwin into this conversation.
Now I had to type this post real quick cause I am super busy and only had like 10 seconds to check QCDN, so I'll get back to this..
I don't have to much time to comment 'cause I'm at work (THATS RIGHT, I PAY TAXES AND HAVE A GOOD JOB AND GUESS WHAT... I USED TO BE A DRUG ADDICT!) and I just scanned your post.
First off, why don't you look into paying taxes on Rehabilitation Centers vs. Prison. Rehabilitation ends being cheaper in the long run which is why all around America people have started to think differently about prison and its cost. You think keeping someone in prison is cheap? How much money do we pump into prisons? Would we save money from decriminalizing drugs? Think about it Darwin.
BTW, I didn't say legalize all drugs, I said decriminalize them. So people could get treatment instead of prison.
Um, you put the drug war and rehabilitation in the same sentence dude. the drug war is what we've been pumping money into for years... has it been working? Rehabilitation is a fairly new idea. The drug program I was in is a very new state funded program. It has a very high success rate and I am living proof. My 6 or so very close friends I went through it with are all clean now. I know some people that didn't get clean that went through it, but nothing is 100 percent.
There has been some MAJOR contributions to society that came from drug addicts. One of the most influential surgeons of all time was a cocaine addict. Their are countless addicts in the art & entertainment world. Some of the greatest authors ever were addicts. A president of a certain country had cocaine and booze problems (still an assshole).
Now I believe in Darwin's theories, but I am no Social Darwinist. Do you know what Social Darwinism is? Do you know who else had "rational truth" in their ideology? Hmmm.... maybe... the Nazis? Social Darwinism was used as a cause to kill and sterilize Blacks, Jews, Drug Addicts, Alcoholics, Genetic Disease Carriers, Etc... Now I am not saying you are a Nazi, but it started as survival of the fittest and turned into kill the weak so we grow faster. Also, when was the last time you met a cat who was strung out on cat nip, I don't see how you could bring Darwin into this conversation.
Now I had to type this post real quick cause I am super busy and only had like 10 seconds to check QCDN, so I'll get back to this..