need people who are good at physics

[Dejavu]

Okay to be honest with u guys i had a really strange dream last night and i am trying to get past it but i cannot figure it out. I had a dream that i made a water fountain that basically never stopped as long as the top reservoir was full which i expect is not possible.

Okay here is my quickly drawn concept in paint. Now in figure 2 u can easily tell that the water will get to where it is even on both sides and it will sit there... I have done enough beer bongs in my time that i am fairly confident of this one being true.

now its figure one that bothers me.

When u add a second reservoir that is closed and half filled with air so that it keeps a relatively high pressure is it possible to make the water flow out the top tube beyond the equilibrium point. Now the wonderful thing about water is that it cannot be compressed and as long as the system is closed the air cannot escape.

By having the tube go from reservoir one to reservoir 2 and resivoir 2 being lower the water should work to gain equilibrium and the water will force its way into resivoir 2. Once more water gets into resivoir 2 the air will compress putting pressure on the water which cannot compress and force it out of the hose.

Now... Here's my question would the system as a whole still go for equilibrium or would be force of the water going from reservoir 1 to reservoir 2 be too much for the water to overcome and therefore the water would have to be pushed out of the hose and back into reservoir 1?

This has been bothering me all day so please someone gimme and answer and back it up with something. I am expecting equilibrium but i cannot find anything to be certain.

Also if this is something that someone has invented in the past that may explain how detailed the dream was...

 

[Anttaru]

If that was possible, then you would have discovered over-unity which is often pummeled by skeptics.

I've tried to wrap my mind around your diagram and concept. I don't think a set pressure would allow the water to flow perpetually.

So a set pressure is the driving force, it wouldn't matter if the water and empty space are equal. It can be 90% full more or less and the results would be the same. It's all a matter of lbs when it comes to pressurizing the tank in this case to move the water over to reservoir 2.

As the water moves from reservoir 1 to the other, more water would have to enter reservoir 1 to compensate for the loss of pressure. As the water is forced out due to the pressure forcing it away, the pressure in that very area would decrease and eventually all the water, or the right amount of water will be pushed out, depending on how much pressure is in the tank.

Being the water from the fountain is constantly cycling, You would need to be able to put that same water back into reservoir 1, and if the only driving force is the pressure in the system, it wouldn't complete a full cycle. If the entire system was pressurized, the water would remain still.

Over all, trying to put water back into the pressurized reservoir 1, is not possible, unless the pressure pushing the water back into that container is greater than what's already in reservoir 1. The riddle to that is, where would this greater pressure be coming from ?

It cannot be perpetual using pressure. It would stand still if it were an enclosed system, and if it was an open system it would stop when pressure has been released. And pressure will be released granted it'll have more space as the water leaves the tank, the pressure itself will not allow any water to enter the reservoir.

I do have an idea though. Instead of using Pressure use Gravity. I'll post what I'm thinking later.

 

[Dejavu]

reservoir 1 is open and reservoir 2 is closed. So 2 is using the pressure and is the "pump" and 1 is using the force due to gravity.

I thought about it a little more tho and i know it really cant be possible because there is a net energy gain (potential energy by having the water end up higher than it starts) but what i am wondering is where am i losing my concept.

I guess the real issue is would the pressure in reservoir 2 be able to hold back the force from gravity with the water traveling from reservoir 1. So basically is the pressure needed to hold back the water traveling from reservoir 1 to reservoir 2 the same as the pressure needed to push the water out of the tube... aka equilibrium.

I mean if this were actually able to work all u would need is a water wheel between the release tube and reservoir 1 and you would have free energy production.

 

[Taurothar]

Your reservoir 2 to 1 tube would eventually reach an equilibrium point where the gravitational weight of it would balance out the pressure in the reservoir. It should work initially but there would be diminishing returns within a very short period of time. The only thing I could see to make this perpetual is if in the down tube you had a turbine that powered a pump, but still you'd be losing energy somewhere and eventually stall out.

 

[Anttaru]

Tried to make a system that's open to the atmosphere. The basic concept is an upside down pyramid shape to contain and shape the water so most of it's weight can be focused more to one spot.

Excuse the poor modeling, It was rushed for conceptual purposes.

The scaling of the device looks like this. That white thing next to the system represents an average sized adult. I wanted there to be a lot for gravity to work with.

The Pyramid tank shape has been stretched to narrow down the walls so more of the water's weight can be transferred to the desired point. Above the pyramid is more area for the water to reside along with a semi flotation device.

The flotation device's purpose to balance out the amount of weight in the tank. It would be partially submerged in the water.

How much it weighs depends. It's to add more weight to the body of water itself so more water can be forced through the hose at the bottom.

The flotation device goes inside the tank like so.

Like this.

Failure to balance out the cycle will make the flotation device lower, as there is less water, like this.

The longer the hose is, the more pressure will be needed for the water to squirt out. From the start I'd imagine the hose would need to be flooded with water. A hose that is too wide my not be good, depending on how much gravity has to work with plus the amount of pressure needed to carry the weight of the water in the hose up.

The hose has been highlighted in green.

The rate at which the water escapes the bottom of the pyramid is bound to be the same as it exiting into the pool. The Drain in the pool must also acknowledge this by draining the equal amount. The equilibrium is powered by 3 in this system, and nature itself does things in 3's, which makes this kinda interesting. So long as the drain is modified to drop the same amount of water the pool is taking in.

The water falling does appear to be different amounts. That is a matter of depth in this case, an orthographic view would reveal they were made the same. Just saying.

When my current project is complete I might put this concept to the test. I have a machinist manifesting my current gesture, and when it's done I'll be happy to show it to everyone, everyone around me thinks I've outdone myself with this current project, I think so too.

I wouldn't suggest my concept for the fountain has no flaws. It most likely does, but some of it is plausible to say the least. If it ever surfaces anywhere else, tell them i said it's called a Gravity Fountain !!

 

[Trippyhippy]

In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in any isolated system remains constant but cannot be recreated, although it may change forms, e.g. friction turns kinetic energy into thermal energy. In thermodynamics, the first law of thermodynamics is a statement of the conservation of energy for thermodynamic systems, and is the more encompassing version of the conservation of energy. In short, the law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

Your machine does indeed seem like it would work, but only if you don't take into account all the kenetic energy that will be turned into thermal energy.

 

[Realia]

I remember watching a show about something like this. It was explaining how the Romans created their water fountains and I think this might help you a bit with what's been bugging you.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question33.htm

Basically in the show I was watching it showed how water was delivered from the top, poured into a pressurized area that eventually filled halfway with water and when the pressure got to be too much would push the water out of the tube going up and would eventually send it back to the top to restart the process. I was half asleep when I watched this so if this doesn't seem possible or you guys have no idea what I'm talking about I'm sorry. I'm not very good with physics so you'll have to excuse the 'noobness' of my explanation.

 

[Uzor]

Looking over it quickly, my guess is that it won't work, simply due to keeping a high enough pressure without the air escaping in the form of bubbles would be hard, as it falls down from the top. I'm guessing the air would escape through the waterhose, causing water to flow slowly in to it, untill the airpressure is to low to be able to push the water down. In theory it do work, but not in practice.

HOWEVER, you could solve it by replacing air with another gas. I don't remember the exact name of it, but there is a gas which is heavier than air, but not as heavy as water, which, if pressurized, could possibly work to your advantage. It is basically the reverse of Helium, is harmless, and if breathed in, causes you to talk with a deeper voice, due to soundwaves going through it differently.