Never ending argument with friend....

Kanash

Kanash

Treader of an Icy past
Adventurer
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
187
Age
44
Location
Out of real life's reach...
About MND and Cure spells.

I've grown up, (as in leveling up), with the thought of MND never did anything to Cure.
I've read posts about people doing tests with theese, where they claim that MND does absolutely nothing to cure spells.

Today in La theine, I was sololing my PLD and decided to try it out. First, I cured myself, with no +MND gear on... 30 HP.
Next I put on +7 MND gear, and 30 HP again. So in my eyes that as another proof on MND doing nothing to cure spells.

I tell this to my friend, but then he goes on with "Thats because your skills is capped" and keeps going on with MND making Cure spells better.
And I really cant believe that, since I've never seen a higher Cure with more MND gear on.
Never really paid much attention to it when I leveled BLM to 75.

So anyone that can confirm this?
Now Cure spells doing better on undead because of MND, is something I would believe, but on other players too?
 
Level 44 WHM. Without my equipment I cure 2 for about 91. With my mind equip, +22 mind, I cure for about 99-100. It makes a difference, and it is easy to get there. If I sacrificed my Electrum rings than I would be about +28 mind.
 
To me mnd seems to have under 1hp per point of mnd bonus, and cure spells take much less mp than the hp they cure.

This translates to: 1mp > 1mnd and almost every slot with +mnd has better +mp options on it.
 
Daveman said:
To me mnd seems to have under 1hp per point of mnd bonus, and cure spells take much less mp than the hp they cure.

This translates to: 1mp > 1mnd and almost every slot with +mnd has better +mp options on it.
Click to expand...


Seems to make sense, but +7 MND didnt make the slightest difference on my cure spells as PLD.
 
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well considering you were soloing in la'thiene ur PLD doesnt seem to be that high of a lvl, and no matter how much mind you have if ur under 35ish the most u can cure with a cure I is 30, ive got 69 whm and without mind i cure 30, with my mnd gear, i can cure about 37-40
 
MND is pretty much useless for cure spells aside from modifying the amount of HP recovered by Cure V, in which case it's very useful.
 
For whm maybe, but main cure as rdm its extra hp for w/e cure you cast. uncapped healing using mnd gear, I get 430+ on cure4 (a lot less if I have mp or int gear on ).
 
I'd say using +mnd gear on paladin is pointless. (I overlooked your class, sorry -.-;;) worry about vitality, defense, enmity, etc. If I'm not mistaken... Correct me if I'm wrong
 
The way it works is like all other things in this game. Each spell has a set limit to how much HP will be cured max and it curves off towards this limit in a parabola fashion much like everything else in the game. At very low levels your cures will not be close to a cap, but after a few levels, the potency tends to tier off. The increases per level are based off MND, Healing skill and presumably level (I've seen levels go by with no +MND increase, yet cure potency did and obviously the skill didn't increase, just the cap for it). In most cases, your potency will reach limits and never really surpass them, but you can get slight boosts out of them by adding more and more mind; however, these boosts are far more apparent on higher level cures.

When you get new cure spells, the spell is very weak. Cure I casts for 10 HP as a level 1 WHM and gradually increases to about 30 before it tiers off. Cure II started for around 71 initially (if I remember correctly) and curved off at 90. I can boost the potency a significant amount when I first learn the spells with increases in MND; however, once they reach the peek, the +MND seems to have smaller and smaller effects on the potency. With enough +MND, you will see an increase, but not enough to warrant totally gearing up in MND over MP. The only exception to this is Cure V where you learn it late in the game and it never really curves off. With enough +healing skill and MND, you can reach an apex; however, I preferred to equip +MP for the most part. At end levels, an elvaan WHM can really shine due to their huge amounts of MND. I believe they can get a good +30-40 HP more for a single Cure V, than I can. Now, you could initially equip +MP gear and then switch to +MND to get the most out of your cures, but for many including myself, it is unneccesary.
 
I was always told, MND helped you reach the cap of the cure spell faster, IE cure is capped 30 HP, cure 2 90 HP, etc.
 
When I get home from work I'll have to check my gear and fire it over to you guys. I have like +21 or 22 mind, and +100'ish MP I believe. I have to doublecheck since due to vacation and RL commitments I haven't use WHM is like 3 weeks. Focused on thief and ninja lately.
 
Atm, I got 17PLD, cure 1 is 30 hp, and cure 2 is 75 hp.

My healing magic is capped from lvling WHM, so I guess +7 MND would add a lil more to cure 2.

Alrighty, finally got this down right. Thanks folks.


PS: Oh and no worry, its not like I plan to wear any MND gear for my PLD lol... It was mainly before I hit lvl 14, I used saintly rings and justice badge.
 
+mnd will help you reach the caps of your cures faster, so at lower levels it is very useful. Once you reach those caps, it takes a lot of +mnd to get very small increases in the amount of hp restored per cure, like 10 mnd for 1 more hp per cure.

As for Cure 5, +mnd and +healing skill will provide slightly better hp restored, but still isn't all that great. When I tested adding +7 mnd, I got 7 more hp out of my cure 5; not bad but still not enough to convince me to not stack +mp. Healing magic skill was even worse for boosting my cure 5's, so unless you absolutely must have the "best" cure 5 that's only 20-30 over a normal whm's, it's generally not worth it. Although if you can get gear with +mp and +mnd(blessed or rosrtums are a good example) then you're getting the best of both worlds.
 
I've cured 22 on my SMN with no MND gear and 26 with it on.
So yeah, it makes a difference.
 
Extra MND truly comes in useful when you've just recently obtained a new cure spell. As previously stated, it loses potency because of the nasty healing "soft caps," but before you reach these, the effect MND has is rather remarkable.

A buttload of MND, for example, on someone who can only Cure II for 71 or so, very much WILL push you up to 90.

MND also assists in penetrating that soft cap, but the rewards progress much more slowly from that point.



All-in-all, I'm afraid you lose the argument. MND does help, and situationally, it's worth it ... particularly for Tarutarus, who have a MND deficiency to make up for, and don't need to be too concerned with MP.

If you're a white mage, unless you're Elvaan, it's a very bad idea to neglect MND too obsessively in favor of MP. Remember that in the off-chance you'll be debuffing instead of a red mage, that very same MND will control the potency of your white mage enfeebles.
 
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You need a sense of ballance when it comes to MND vs MP. Despite popular belief I will easily advocate the benifits of MND. Maximize the MP that you have to work with-- as MP gear has it's place.. but typically you will not always stay at 'capped MP' unless your mana pool is simply for decoration.

Healing Skill plays a major role in healing also. I will heal for more using AF2 pants that have a + skill mod to them than I will using Zenith slacks that have a MP boost on them. Depending on the fight, that MP boost might be more vital to me.. and gear swaps are always an option, too.

What people neglect to mention about MND is it helps boost your resistance, not only your cures and to me that is often more vital. An awesome MP pool does you no glory if you're dead-- and that's my theory on it.

But, yes, as a PLD unless you're trying to PL-- MND is not your huge concern.

For RDM-- I've seen it make a world of difference.
For WHM-- Generally your gear accomidates both worlds and your skill plays a significant role. The elemental day can also play a part, too.

You'll heal most on Light Day. Least on Dark Day. However, don't under estimate the other elemental days either. Light base elements will give you a slight boost to your heals and dark base elements will give you a slight decrease. These things are so minor that often are not taken into consideration as its not as though you have any way to change the day.

Just something to keep in mind in parsing.

I always try to express to up and coming white mages who might not be able to afford the expensive gear (usually the MP gear) to use whatever MND gear they can find in it's place. A few points won't make or break you, but it does add up over time. Good luck.
 
Direwolf said:
I was always told, MND helped you reach the cap of the cure spell faster, IE cure is capped 30 HP, cure 2 90 HP, etc.
Click to expand...

yeah, between base mind and Healing Magic skill, you can cap every cure except Cure V eventually. The only way to boost them beyond that point are Cure+% items.
 
never wrote the actually numbers down...but as mnk/whm, my cures close to double when i'm in my full mnd gear.
 
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