New Spell Idea

[Lucki]

Shit's situational.

There are some mobs that 1 BLM can take that 6 DD would have difficulty with (puddings), and then there are mobs thats BLMs can't take (g.colbri).

 

[Dowzer]

I'm glad we agree about BLM not being overpowered, Tari. In fact, I said it's an incredibly powerful job, because it is. I don't believe anything needs to be "added" to it, nor does anything need to be taken away. Others have mentioned it's mainly because of Colibri resisting magic.

Not only is it about Colibri resisting magic, there's a much larger picture to be seen. This is all well known, the reasons why setting up a magic burst is slower than using your TP at will. I don't need to elaborate here.

What needs to be changed, as it's been mentioned hundreds of times, is an alteration to how exp is gained. Successfully executing a Skillchain and Magic Burst should give an extreme bonus of exp, in ways that it can measure up or surpass TP burn's efficiency.

The bonus would ultimately have to depend on how much damage the Magic Burst did. Cheating the system by having your RDM MB Thunder 1 in a merit party would not work. The only reasonable (and better than merit exp) would come from tier IV, aga III and AM/II.

It sounds soooooooo good on paper. Now let's be realistic.

A lot of you LOVE the skillchain + magic burst days. I know I did, I know a lot of others who did too.

Lots of people fucking hated it too, lol.






I implore you to research the Update History of FFXI and you will be shockingly surprised at what you read.

03/04/15

- Patch Before Zilart expantion went live.
- Level limit raised to 65, new spells and weapon skills were introduced.
- Pld gains Rampart.
- Most of the improvement has been anounced in their boards. However most of the BAD side aka NERF has never been anounced and were stealthly patched.
- Post skill 200, the difference between Skill A and below Skill B difference becomes more severe. Job specific WS has become clear and each job has been given their proficient part and whats not. (warriors starts to use more axes, leaves swords behind and such)
- Not only the WS but also have issues with accuracy equation. Prior to skill level 200, the equation of accuracy was 1skill = 1accuracy. Post skill 200 the accuracy equation becomes 1skill =0.2 accuracy. There for the difference of the accuracy between A and B were not severe between players. However they forgot to modify the mob's evation, which made the players very hard to hit the mob. Having B class skill in a weapon made some problems since they could not get their WS of their profesion with 65 being the level cap.
- Some spell skill has become easier to improve. Prior to this patch there were no way to increase the skill of heal other than casting towards undead mobs. Now the skill rises casting to anyone. But of course, it was a meaningless skill reguardless. (brd subbing whm and whm cureII difference are practically null)
- Warrior's Aggressor got nerfed. Before it was 25% accuracy up and 25% evation down, now became a fixed number. However, the defendfer became from 3min to 5min (I know this since I have read the info elsewhere).
- Rng received Endlesshot and new Conquest point arrows. However having the TP reset swapping Arrows made this skill and arrow useless.
- Rdm receiving without notice Convert, Fast cast applied always, and clearmind has made them one of the most seeked jobs, or in JP term Godly job.
- Brds had their soul voice, ballad, march, and madrigal nerfed, has become from the "Sole god job" into a God job. (er what the difference anyway...)
- Bsts can now summon pets.
- Monk's Martial art traight has been improved, Chiblast and Kick has been added.
- Drk gains new line of attacker job spells. Absorb.
- Dagger type weapons now has piercing element,
- Erase, Dispell and Phalanx were added.
- Cure hate has finally tuned down and they won't get much hate unless you try it.
- Enfeeble and Enhancement tuning up, introduction of new jobs and new hunting areas has made people think that the game were advancing in a bright side.
- NOT... the exp gained in 61+ has been tuned to a hell zone. IT mobs started 12 levels ahead from your current level, to gain 200 exp needed to kill mobs that were 18levels ahead of you ( frankly, the developers were complete morons when they implemented this and was like anouncing IT = death).
- Level 2 Skill chains has been nerfed badly, the resist of skill chain effects become obsolete. Battle with IT became pointless unless you have a supreme party configuration.
- Appart from some specific players, people now have started to gain exp against Tough~Very tough mobs. However, exp gained from Even con and tough has also been lowered. Their tactics shifted from skill chain to spamming multi hit WS.
- Prior to this patch, orcs and bones were the primary source of exp mob which were now replaced to crabs and beetles. Black cloud from bones becomes absurdly strong like nowdays, Evil Weapon learns (forgot name in english) Stun AoE attack, Orcs now have 1.5 times more hp than any other mobs. This made the players to move away from their old hunting grounds, and forced to move to new areas.
- New monster type has been added to the old areas who were ninja, summoner and bsts who already were starting to cast ninjutus, use avatar as their pets and so on.
- Goblin droped their items like rain.
- Level3 skill chain was introduced, but for not be able to perform till 65, and since dancing edge were so ridiculously strong, people haven't used much.
- Fear of using Rampage and Pentathrust in conjuction with Meditate, they have removed Skill chain elemental from them. (I don't know what this means...)
- Food effect which before was 1hour duration, those which stacks has been reduced to 30min.
- The Gil farming method of getting Silver and mithril coins has been nerfed since their drop rate has been hit severely.
- Implemented casting time into items and this has solved the bug of scrolls dissapearing, however some items had such a horrible casttime which became completely useless in battle.
- New items with Latent effect has been introduced. However users could not determin these effect since eighther they were not displayed or could not determin how to activate it.
- Sneak now you have to cut the effect in order to recast it. But this made them not to wear off when opening chests.
- COffer and Treasure chest now has a fixed 30min repop timer.
- Competition on Carbuncle's Ruby and Kazam keys spread through Vanadiel and people starts to get frustrated of severe competition.
- New HNMs has been added through out the new areas, however their loot has been so poorly implemented and there were so many that didn't give gil nor title, that many of them were left untouched.
- some serious problems when imputting JP characters.
- Bug that you could buy maps of new areas countless times.
- NPC merchants now buys items from users even cheaper, and people starts to have more difficulty in cash grinding. Specially the mages.
- The region stores which were located in Jeuno has dissapeared.

We are repeating history here. The JP before our time did it first. They had the first "TP Burn" setups before this shit was even RELEASED in NA.

Needless to say, even way back before FFXI was released in NA, exp parties have always been about one thing: maximizing exp gained. Until SE "fixes the problem" there's nothing you can do aside make your own party. Good luck finding 5 other people who will enjoy 6k/hr and 12k/hr at best, there are some who may enjoy it, but the majority will agree, "TP Burn PT? No? No thanks."

 

[Dowzer]

For the record, a solo BLM doesn't have all the fun. Some people really enjoy it.

SAM solo too!

Spoiler:

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

Shit's situational.

There are some mobs that 1 BLM can take that 6 DD would have difficulty with (puddings), and then there are mobs thats BLMs can't take (g.colbri).

I disagree with this statement. Me and my friend, Xynin, have duoed a G. Colibri, yes it does take a little longer but with a RDM and BLM it is possible for a BLM to kill a G. Colibri within 2 minutes.

 

[Lucki]

I disagree with this statement. Me and my friend, Xynin, have duoed a G. Colibri, yes it does take a little longer but with a RDM and BLM it is possible for a BLM to kill a G. Colibri within 2 minutes.

I should have been clearer. Yes, it is possible to kill a G.Colibri, but it's just not efficient XP.

 

[Dowzer]

On topic about BLM not being overpowered, here's something interesting. SCH is pretty damn overpowered.

 

[Kipper]

I will admit I love the idea of the spell but it just doesnt seem viable to me, the fact that BLM is required to solo so to speak is because of the fact that at higher levels colibri reflect etc, this spell wouldn't change that, and from my experiance blm does get parties during the lower levels, its just higher ones that suck. The spell is nice but due to the fact that we're left soloing a lot, I doubt that will ever change, and I don't see that spell as something we could use soloing D:

 

[Asuza]

On topic about BLM not being overpowered, here's something interesting. SCH is pretty damn overpowered.

:shok:


WTF JUST HAPPENED...

i only got my sch to 40 before i quit, not to sure whats going on that vid...

 

[TheRealTaritzu]

How about SE just add Aspir II? I know i've seen video's of it somewhere.

Again it wont fix anything, but it sure would make our lives easier

-Tari

 

[Layeena]

*coughs* I may not have alot of right to speak, seeing as my Black Mage never made it past 34, but, Black Mage has a shit ton of power, long ass recast times, and alot of MP.

Square Enix could at least lower the recast times. My Red Mage, with her Teir III spells, could go up the III's, cast each one, and go back to the first one I casted and none of them were up. From Thunder III to Aero III, the recast time wasn't up yet.

I, personally (keeping in mind my BLMsn't high at all) Think the spell would be alright to add, with the exception of the Merit-able situation. We all know SE's too damn cheap/lazy to tinker with Merits.

 

[Lecreuset]

*coughs* I may not have alot of right to speak, seeing as my Black Mage never made it past 34, but, Black Mage has a shit ton of power, long ass recast times, and alot of MP.

Square Enix could at least lower the recast times. My Red Mage, with her Teir III spells, could go up the III's, cast each one, and go back to the first one I casted and none of them were up. From Thunder III to Aero III, the recast time wasn't up yet.

I, personally (keeping in mind my BLMsn't high at all) Think the spell would be alright to add, with the exception of the Merit-able situation. We all know SE's too damn cheap/lazy to tinker with Merits.

Even without the job being leveled as high, the elemental skill alone BLMs have still trounce a RDMs(that don't sub SCH) and those same tier III's wind up packing more power for their punch in general on higher tiered mobs.

...or so I'd think.

The MP cost is there for a reason.

Most BLMs I've played with in my old LS AbsolutePerfection have no idea what staying under the hate threshhold is, and almost make it a contest to see who has the bigger e-peen pulling hate at the most inopportune times, substantially lowering their DPS for the 5 minutes they're weakened.

The job traits BLM has for resting and the excellent hMP options available to the general public and some slight upgrades for the deep pocketed make resting a joke on top of having food. Leveling up this is slightly more of a pain... But at 75, I could see a spell like this being more trouble than it's worth.

Between jobs, my general resting set involves:

Pluto's Staff/Ariesian Grip/nohMPyet/nohMPyet
Mirror Tiara, Goliard Chapeau/Beak+1, Thinking of Grandiose Chain/Antivenom/Relaxing
Yigit, +1 RDM Body, Errant Hpl(Thinking of Mahatma)/Genie Gages or Oracles(job dependent)/Star Ring x2
Intensifying Cape/Qiqirn Sash+1(Thinking of Hierarch, unsure)/Yigit Seraweels/Avocat Pigaches(Missing Goliard Feet, but same hMP.)

Aside the Star Rings, most of this is reasonably priced, and for BLMs, the Oracle's Set Head/Body/Hands/legs/maybe feet match or exceed some of the other gear available to rest to the limited cap there, and you can just swap out to your fullMP buff gear and finish off the pool for stoneskins w/e. ;O

 

[Lyall]

*coughs* I may not have alot of right to speak, seeing as my Black Mage never made it past 34, but, Black Mage has a shit ton of power, long ass recast times, and alot of MP.

Square Enix could at least lower the recast times. My Red Mage, with her Teir III spells, could go up the III's, cast each one, and go back to the first one I casted and none of them were up. From Thunder III to Aero III, the recast time wasn't up yet.

I, personally (keeping in mind my BLMsn't high at all) Think the spell would be alright to add, with the exception of the Merit-able situation. We all know SE's too damn cheap/lazy to tinker with Merits.

Its been said and reinforced before: The "problem" isn't MP, its never been MP, its resist rates. Similarly, if you have to cast Aero-Water back to back to back to back to back to back to back then I don't know what it is you're fighting, but you're dead. Black Mage in a group is all about hate control, black mage in a burn is all about speed and efficiency, and what you described is neither one of those. The recast times are fine because no competent black mage is ever going to spam tier 4s like that and expect to live.

Black mage is about controlling yourself, not throwing as much damage as you at something and emptying your MP in 30 seconds. That's for Blue Mages. :biggrin:

 

[ShomeGhuye]

Honestly, whether it's suken, or just some other thing SE comes up with, I feel like we need an update. Not so that we can deal out even better damage, but just to change things up a little. BLM has been more or less the same for a very long time now and I've gotten bored with it. I don't like to solo anymore, and full manaburns have reached the point of being just "meh".

That brings me to my next point. It seems to me that merit parties vs. stuff like colibris can bring in about 50% - 100% more exp than a manaburn at flans. The exp rate of my first merit party seriously blew my mind. Now I wouldn't mind that if BLMs got to get a piece of the action, but we're left to party amoungst ourselves. I admit I haven't had much experience with merit parties (given my jobs) but I haven't heard of blms taking part in them except for way back in those days you guys are reminicing to when people would MB intentionally (I miss them too). If we get an update I'd like it to be one that allows us to partake in the great exp/hr that some of the other jobs are able to get vs. colibris.

I'm probably not the only BLM that feels this way, but I woulden't mind being over-powered.
Bwahahahaha!

I'm with you Kaji. I love blowing stuff up (especially unresisted like in Puk ISNM). Maybe SE should make a place where the abilities of BLMs are enhanced. Then we can nuke really hard (and get some exp), but still participate in end-game the same way we do now. Might even provide a solution to the above problem

 

[Dowzer]

Honestly, whether it's suken, or just some other thing SE comes up with, I feel like we need an update. Not so that we can deal out even better damage, but just to change things up a little. BLM has been more or less the same for a very long time now and I've gotten bored with it. I don't like to solo anymore, and full manaburns have reached the point of being just "meh".

That brings me to my next point. It seems to me that merit parties vs. stuff like colibris can bring in about 50% - 100% more exp than a manaburn at flans. The exp rate of my first merit party seriously blew my mind. Now I wouldn't mind that if BLMs got to get a piece of the action, but we're left to party amoungst ourselves. I admit I haven't had much experience with merit parties (given my jobs) but I haven't heard of blms taking part in them except for way back in those days you guys are reminicing to when people would MB intentionally (I miss them too). If we get an update I'd like it to be one that allows us to partake in the great exp/hr that some of the other jobs are able to get vs. colibris.



I'm with you Kaji. I love blowing stuff up (especially unresisted like in Puk ISNM). Maybe SE should make a place where the abilities of BLMs are enhanced. Then we can nuke really hard (and get some exp), but still participate in end-game the same way we do now. Might even provide a solution to the above problem

This is generally what I've been trying to say. Incorporate BLM back into fast parties without hindering the fast parties exp. Currently a BLM is a burden on the party.

I'll post it again, it's not my idea, so many others have mentioned it before but I feel it really needs to be hammered down before SE considers it.

What needs to be changed, as it's been mentioned hundreds of times, is an alteration to how exp is gained. Successfully executing a Skillchain and Magic Burst should give an extreme bonus of exp, in ways that it can measure up or surpass TP burn's efficiency.

The bonus would ultimately have to depend on how much damage the Magic Burst did. Cheating the system by having your RDM MB Thunder 1 in a merit party would not work. The only reasonable (and better than merit exp) would come from tier IV, aga III and AM/II.

It sounds soooooooo good on paper. Now let's be realistic.

A lot of you LOVE the skillchain + magic burst days. I know I did, I know a lot of others who did too.

Lots of people fucking hated it too, lol.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

This is generally what I've been trying to say. Incorporate BLM back into fast parties without hindering the fast parties exp. Currently a BLM is a burden on the party.

I suppose you're right. I just wanted to add my two cents in full rather than just saying that "I agree with dowzer". Seemed like we had a different way of saying the same thing.

 

[Hexx]

Its been said and reinforced before: The "problem" isn't MP, its never been MP, its resist rates. Similarly, if you have to cast Aero-Water back to back to back to back to back to back to back then I don't know what it is you're fighting, but you're dead. Black Mage in a group is all about hate control, black mage in a burn is all about speed and efficiency, and what you described is neither one of those. The recast times are fine because no competent black mage is ever going to spam tier 4s like that and expect to live.

Black mage is about controlling yourself, not throwing as much damage as you at something and emptying your MP in 30 seconds. That's for Blue Mages. :biggrin:

Couldnt agree with you more =P

Personally, leveling BLM was a bit of a pain, but I also dont feel it needs too much of an update per se. I do wish there was a way for BLMs to recover those buffers fast enough, cuz i mean, lets face it, EG shells love BLMs but yet they get no love when they die left and right to help keep crowds under control. Give us a way to recover that exp buffer as efficiently as other DDs and I doubt people will complain about comin BLM to events.

 

[Dowzer]

Well by "enhanced abilities" for a different camp or different kind of monster sounds awfully similar to flans. I don't understand what you mean by change it up a little but deal the same damage. Flans were made for us, our abilities are enhanced against them because they take +25% magic damage and give us a little exp.

See what I mean? You're on the right side of the argument but you really didn't say how it would work. That's why I posted the old suggestion of adding an experience point bonus in regards to magic burst damage.

Care to elaborate how "changing it up a little" would find us a spot in nowadays parties?

I ask that because I'd really love to hear the ideas. I agree, there needs to be something NEW. Magic bursting skillchains is OLD and so are monsters who are weak to magic. I'd love to hear an idea to incorporate BLM into TP burn parties without magic bursts or an experience point bonus.

As much fun as creating skillchains for magic bursts is, it will get old again really fast.

 

[Dowzer]

I mean seeing stuff likes this just makes me :verysad: that's supposed to be a crying face but goddamn there's not one amongst a bajillion absolutely useless, retarded faces.


Like this one. WTF :gay flower:


ANYWHO QCDN Nerdrage /off. ON TOPIC:

T_T

Granted the guy was on his alt character's RDM60+/WHM15 and this poor BLM was still riding him to come party on his gimp RDM.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

Well by "enhanced abilities" for a different camp or different kind of monster sounds awfully similar to flans. I don't understand what you mean by change it up a little but deal the same damage. Flans were made for us, our abilities are enhanced against them because they take +25% magic damage and give us a little exp.

That had occured to me, but the whole senario was just a fantasy not to be taken seriously. However, in my mind it was unlike the flan camp since flans are still able to resist our magics. What "enhanced abilities" implies was really left to everyone's own interpretation.

See what I mean? You're on the right side of the argument but you really didn't say how it would work. That's why I posted the old suggestion of adding an experience point bonus in regards to magic burst damage.

It was not my intention to give a specific suggestion with details on how it would work. I just wanted to point out that it would be nice to have some change in the job, which brings me to:

Care to elaborate how "changing it up a little" would find us a spot in nowadays parties?

I was making two different points. The first was that I think it would be great if BLMs got an update in general. As said I've grown bored with it, and the change might renew my interest. The second was that I'm a little peeved that we don't get to be in today's merit parties, and if we were to receive any sort of update my preference would be one that gets us into these parties.

I ask that because I'd really love to hear the ideas. I agree, there needs to be something NEW. Magic bursting skillchains is OLD and so are monsters who are weak to magic. I'd love to hear an idea to incorporate BLM into TP burn parties without magic bursts or an experience point bonus.

Honestly I haven't thought about how to do this, but lets examine some of the problems we face when trying to make an adjustment that would allow us into a merit party:

1) "The Opponent": I've been to a total of two merit parties so I don't know all of the best spots. Maybe there are camps other than the colibri camps in the thickets. As far as I know there aren't. As mentioned earlier in this thread colibris are a problem due to their resistance to our magics. Additionally, as I recall they reflect (after sustaining damage) any elemental magic cast on them back at the party.
​

2) "Downtime": Even with the best hMP gear, you will still need to rest for a while. Since mobs are pulled constantly with no downtime between them, you're forced to be a burden on the xp/hr since you need to take some time to rest every now and then. (rather than help attack the current mob.
​

3) "Replaced": These days, the damage we deal (without taking hate) can easily be replicated by some of the better DD jobs. So why bother inviting a job that will require downtime and have their magics resisted when you can invite a job that will do equal or better damage over time and not have to rest?
​

So in summary, we suck vs. the opponent, we have downtime, and we can easily be replaced by a job such as samurai. With all those things in mind, there are two routes you can take:

1) The first is a change that would allow manaburns and perhaps even soloers to gain more exp. The only possible way I see of doing this involves increasing the damage bonus on flans from 25% to something like 50% or 75% as well as decreasing their spawn timer. This will allow for greater exp chains which should result in a slight bonus to exp. This would also allow a full manaburn to roam and kill flans with less nukes leaving them not having to rest as much. However, even a change like this wouldn't come close to the sort of exp I've heard of good merit parties getting (30k/hr).

2) The second is a change that would get blms into merit parties. One possibility is to give us a job ability lasting for say, one minute which would double or triple the refresh rate of spells from bards, corsairs, and rdms that grant that effect. Obviously this would mean we have less downtime from resting. A second possibility (would probably break the job or push us into the "overpowered" category) is giving us the death spell with a substantial recast timer. That way we'd be able to take out a mob pulled for the party instantly, and then rest for the duration of the counter, then insta-kill the next one. This way, downtime is made up for by the party getting an instant kill (easy exp), hate doesn't become an issue, and (I'd hope) it wouldn't be able to get resisted/reflected by colibris.
​

As much fun as creating skillchains for magic bursts is, it will get old again really fast.

Agreed

 

[Lyall]

Colibri parties happen to take advantage of exp mobs in a way that makes insane exp/hour possible. Smn burns operate in the same technical sense: Kill as many things as fast as possible. Ever notice how crowded the Leypoint and all are for melee burns? Ever been a part of a blm burn at 25 in Zi'tah?

Do you hear beastmasters complaining about lack of merit options? Jobs come with limitations, and blm doesn't have such strict ones that require "fixing." Enjoy Flans, because 5k/hour used to be good. Back about the time when magic bursts were used.

It could always be worse, enjoy breaking 5 digits/hour on exp as it is.