New sub option for Blm and Brd

[Rones]

Plds shouldn't be the only ones celebrating autorefresh at lvl 35 (from what I've read). Brds and blms can both make use of this

Bards
We have always made use of whm sub for the cures and -nas spells. With pld sub we lose the -na spells, curagas, and divine seal, yet we gain 1,200 free mp an hour. Against exp enemies without heavy status effects or lots of aoe damage, pld sub's autorefresh has the potential to outperform whm sub now. It is less versitile than whm, but it does have more power for exp hungry parties.

Black Mages
We have all heard the arguments for blm/smn for years. That combination fails due to the utter lack of support abilties, let alone the inability to cure themselves. However, now with the aid of subbing pld you can get an extra 1,200 mp an hour for nuking while still being able to cure your party and yourself. Biggest price might be the loss of stoneskin, but you must weigh that cost vs the benefit of 1,200 mp every hour. :shok:

Both jobs would get the added bonus of sentinal ability and two defence up traits. Not real signifigant, but help a little all the same. This is interesting because never before has SE combined curing ability and refresh into one subable job. I forsee this being a new favorite sub for farming and soloing too.

 

[DarleneFFXI]

What level do paladins get AutoRefresh ? 25 like smn?

 

[Xalioniaf]

I agree, subbing PLD would work wonders for any job in need of extra MP.

 

[Kizaryo]

Auto-Refresh and lots of defense? (BLM/PLD)??
Galkan black mages are gonna be like unbreakable mountains. :shok:

 

[Rones]

What level do paladins get AutoRefresh ? 25 like smn?

35 I read. Could use some confirmation on this however.

 

[Kizaryo]

If thats the case then most mages won't consider PLD until they are in their high 70s.

Sorta like the big rave on RDM subbing NIN at higher levels.

35 I read. Could use some confirmation on this however.

 

[Xalioniaf]

35 Auto Refresh
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.php/Paladin


So yeah, not until 70s.

 

[masterorion]

who woulda thunk it!

 

[Rones]

Can't wait to see a blm cover a pld. :biggrin:

 

[Bajaratt]

Can't wait to see a blm cover a pld. :biggrin:

I'm going to level pld just to cover Cythe in a fight. It'll be suicide, but it'll be worth it.

 

[Jakey]

Can't wait to see a blm cover a pld. :biggrin:

that'll be me^^

I was wondering if SE would be dumb enough to give refresh before 37 on pld I see they were so it's blm/pld time lol

 

[Rones]

that'll be me^^

I was wondering if SE would be dumb enough to give refresh before 37 on pld I see they were so it's blm/pld time lol

I too was expecting lvl 38+, guessedvl 40. Wouldn't be surprised if SE changed this in the future.

 

[pakomen]

Wonder what kind of an int penalty you'd be looking at for /pld.

Wonder what kind of mp penalty you'd be facing too.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I'd think whm would want to sub pld rather than smn now. /pld will improve every stat more than smn (I would guess) and still give an MP bonus and auto-refresh.

But I hate playing Whm and therefore I suck outloud when I try. Or maybe I suck at it and that's why I hate it. Who knows. My point is, what do you super magey whms think?

 

[Rones]

Blm and smn are still superior subs for whms and rdms. We don't need cure spells from a sub, thus you look at the other abilties. Stats will be insiginifigant for any fully lvled sub. Smn would give more mp. Blm gives conserve mp, elemental seals, escape, warp. Max mp is also more important to rdms and whms than blms or brds (brds get most of mp from equip).

Wonder what kind of an int penalty you'd be looking at for /pld.

Wonder what kind of mp penalty you'd be facing too.

Mp panelty will be there, but not large. Sub doesn't provide a whole lot of mp to begin with, and pld is an mp job at least. Stats should be largely the same. I don't think whm gives more, if any int than pld.

 

[hellstorm]

Can't wait to see a blm cover a pld. :biggrin:

the only downside to this theory is the amount of mana you gain vs whm or smn. Though why your joking rdm/pld has a nice ring to it maybe we can do alittle tanking action:biggrin: On rdm/drk ill have between 540-600mp while on rdm/whm ill have 750-800mp and rdm/blm 780-830mp.

 

[Lavi]

Plds shouldn't be the only ones celebrating autorefresh at lvl 35 (from what I've read). Brds and blms can both make use of this

Bards
We have always made use of whm sub for the cures and -nas spells. With pld sub we lose the -na spells, curagas, and divine seal, yet we gain 1,200 free mp an hour. Against exp enemies without heavy status effects or lots of aoe damage, pld sub's autorefresh has the potential to outperform whm sub now. It is less versitile than whm, but it does have more power for exp hungry parties.

Black Mages
We have all heard the arguments for blm/smn for years. That combination fails due to the utter lack of support abilties, let alone the inability to cure themselves. However, now with the aid of subbing pld you can get an extra 1,200 mp an hour for nuking while still being able to cure your party and yourself. Biggest price might be the loss of stoneskin, but you must weigh that cost vs the benefit of 1,200 mp every hour. :shok:

Both jobs would get the added bonus of sentinal ability and two defence up traits. Not real signifigant, but help a little all the same. This is interesting because never before has SE combined curing ability and refresh into one subable job. I forsee this being a new favorite sub for farming and soloing too.

How much base MP is lost by changing subs tho? A BLM rests to full at the end of every chain to make the most of the MP and to maximize the chain. If the 1200 MP an hour is less than the amount of base MP lost times how many ever complete chains you can do in a single hour, then its still not a worthwhile sub not to mention there is probably an INT loss by subbing PLD over WHM. And never underestimate the need for -na spells, they are very important and having two members able to use both is probably worth far more than just auto refresh.

BRDs have their own refresh and rarely use the MP they have anyways. Not saying those bards are smart of amazing at their job, but 90% never ever dip into the MP pool unless there is an emergency or trying to get the end of a chain. At either rate, the need for auto resfresh isn't that great and a larger/more effective cures are. I can't speak for all parties, but if I was to see a BRD/PLD or a BLM/PLD seeking, I'm going to ask them to change subs.

 

[Sandria]

I would like confirmation on whether or not the two auto-refresh would stack. As humorous as it might seem, it could honestly work in some sittuations and should honestly be given some thought and trial and error.

SMN/PLD would possibly interesting to experiement with if both refresh would stack, and not only because of the added mp but added vit. (Would need confirmation on how much added def is given, also.) Though, part of me sides with Lavi as my whm sub has its many merits. As far as WHM/PLD.. I'd be willing to tinker around with that also because it could be useful as I've fairly decent def and sometimes more so than a typical dd class. So a WHM covering is not as odd as it might sound when all things are considered.

 

[Rones]

How much base MP is lost by changing subs tho? A BLM rests to full at the end of every chain to make the most of the MP and to maximize the chain. If the 1200 MP an hour is less than the amount of base MP lost times how many ever complete chains you can do in a single hour, then its still not a worthwhile sub not to mention there is probably an INT loss by subbing PLD over WHM. And never underestimate the need for -na spells, they are very important and having two members able to use both is probably worth far more than just auto refresh.

Blm sub only gives me about 100-120 at lvl 75. I don't have pld unlocked, so I can't say how much it would give at 75/37, but I would wager 30-40 at least. However, you are forgetting max mp is insignifigant at upper lvls compared to the rate you can regain mp. To counter your point, I'll point out most blms don't emptry their mp every chain. For example, as a whm/blm with 1150 mp, I never go below 400 mp during exp. I could have 650 mp or 10,000 mp, it wouldn't matter. However, if I had 10,000 mp and used it all up every chain, I would still have to spend a longer time resting to regain it. Blm/pld can regain mp faster than Blm/whm. MpRegain>>> max mp.

I already pointed out that it would be situational use against enemies who didn't use heavy status effects. Stat differences are going to be insignifigant as I already stated. I'm not even positive whm has a higher int rating than pld. I seem to remember having very low int as 75 whm.

BRDs have their own refresh and rarely use the MP they have anyways. Not saying those bards are smart of amazing at their job, but 90% never ever dip into the MP pool unless there is an emergency or trying to get the end of a chain.

You are playing with lazy brds who get by only because of their job. Good brds and all those aspiring to be good should fully use their mp. I always drain my mp as a brd quickly. Brd/whm and Brd/pld can heal exactly the same if you are up against a non-aoe enemy, except Brd/pld will be able to heal more per hour than the brd/whm. Your points counterdict each other. If the brd doesn't cure, then what he subs is irrevelent. If he does cure, then he can get more curing power with /pld if curagas are not needed (obviously won't work for rampage parties in sky or krt).

if I was to see a BRD/PLD or a BLM/PLD seeking, I'm going to ask them to change subs.

Thanks for falling back on your knee-jerk reflexes and ignoring the changes that have been made. There is potential here if you will stop and think about it without the old conotations we have been locked into. If I had pld lvled, I would seriously consider using it depending on the party setup and enemy.

Edit:

I would like confirmation on whether or not the two auto-refresh would stack. As humorous as it might seem, it could honestly work in some sittuations and should honestly be given some thought and trial and error.

Pretty sure they won't. Sounds like both got the same name, so they won't stack just like other job traits such as magic defence from rdm and whm.

 

[Rappa]

No two other jobs with the same ability have ever stacked (like attack bonus or clear mind) so I wouldn't see why Auto Refresh would be any different.

Another thing people have failed to mention in this topic would be Flash. While it could be dangerous for a blm that's been overnuking to cast, a brd could toss out a Flash to help with shadows on a nin tank or what have you.