New sub option for Blm and Brd

PLD tends to run a little short on INT as well, so while it might be viable for BLM, that presents a bit of a handicap to make it more fair, along with the smaller mp pool than /WHM.
 
Bigboy said:
PLD tends to run a little short on INT as well, so while it might be viable for BLM, that presents a bit of a handicap to make it more fair, along with the smaller mp pool than /WHM.
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I know stat calculators are notoriously inaccurate, but this one reports whm and pld subbed giving nearly the same int at all levels. I know its not reliable at 60+, but I do believe them to be pretty accurate pre 60 when the formuleas are reliable. Stat differences for any fully lvled sub are largely insignifigant. That is lesson #1 from sub job choices 101. You choose for the abilties, spells, and traits, not the stats.

Edit: For example, thf, drk, and brd all give more int than whm. The stats are irrelevent.
 
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Rappa said:
No two other jobs with the same ability have ever stacked (like attack bonus or clear mind) so I wouldn't see why Auto Refresh would be any different.

Another thing people have failed to mention in this topic would be Flash. While it could be dangerous for a blm that's been overnuking to cast, a brd could toss out a Flash to help with shadows on a nin tank or what have you.
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Yah, I was just looking for confirmation since I haven't leveled PLD yet. And was blissfully hoping that it would be possible for them to have the same effect under different names since gear refresh stacks with auto-refresh. That and I've heard rumor that they were suppose to tinker with smn refresh.

And Edit: Rones there is nothing wrong with looking outside the box. It keeps things interesting.
 
Rappa said:
No two other jobs with the same ability have ever stacked (like attack bonus or clear mind) so I wouldn't see why Auto Refresh would be any different.

Another thing people have failed to mention in this topic would be Flash. While it could be dangerous for a blm that's been overnuking to cast, a brd could toss out a Flash to help with shadows on a nin tank or what have you.
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that was the other reason ive alway consider lvling rdm/pld I love rdm/drk prob better then rdm/nin. Also you get extra sword ws just like drk and shield bash
 
according to your calculator i would loose 57 mp and wont loose any Chr. I have a bad feeling im gonna have to level pld soon >.<. Ballad 1 and 2 w/ vermy and /pld would be 5mp a tic whenever i want it.
 
Dejavu said:
according to your calculator i would loose 57 mp and wont loose any Chr. I have a bad feeling im gonna have to level pld soon >.<. Ballad 1 and 2 w/ vermy and /pld would be 5mp a tic whenever i want it.
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Exactly my thoughts. It is very tempting for those times you don't need curagas.
 
Rones said:
Exactly my thoughts. It is very tempting for those times you don't need curagas.
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though you loss divine seal as well
 
hellstorm said:
though you loss divine seal as well
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Divine seal with cure 3 every 10 mins exactly for max hp is 46mp x 6 = 276 mp saved every hour. Much less than the 1,200 an hour from autorefresh.

Can't really compare divine seal combined with curaga 2 vs autorefresh since it depends on just how many people the curaga 2 is healing. However, 120 mp curaga 2 x 6 = 720 mp saved, still less than autorefresh. Although, it might cost you more or less mp to cure the same hp with single target spells. If pld could use curagas, autorefresh would straight up beat divine seal. That is why I recommend using it against non-aoe enemies where one person takes most of the dmg, such as with a pld.
 
For BLM>

I'll state the losses for you for Paladin versus my redmage sub.

-5 INT
-38 MP
+23 HP
+25 Def
+several useless paladin abilities(they are all for hate spikes)
+autofresh
-stoneskin
-blink
-phalanx

Not worth it.

Considering this is a 70+ combination only... any BLM will tell you how critical blink/stoneskin(/phalanx) is 70+...
 
Now if just more blms actually used stoneskin and blink. So often is it I find myself raising blms because they never used them. At least with autorefresh they can't forget that. :biggrin: Is Stoneskin worth an opportunity cost of 1,200 mp an hour?
 
Rones said:
Now if just more blms actually used stoneskin and blink.

Is Stoneskin worth an opportunity cost of 1,200 mp an hour?
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At 75, I solo. Can't seem to get parties for my blm for the life of me. So yes, blink and SS are lifesavers. For lower levels.... probably not essential. A blm can usually afford to get whacked once.

However, if it came to losing a buttload of int and mp just for auto-refresh, I'd rather just bring my own yagudo drinks or take cooking to 60. More worthwhile IMO.
 
Rones said:
35 I read. Could use some confirmation on this however.
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Confirmed. Well I spoke to a 36 PLD who had Shield Mastery and Auto Refresh. A 32 PLD I know had just Shield Mastery. Oh and I got Shield Mastery at 25. So yeah 35 for Auto Refresh.
 
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Drk/Pld yet god dammit! :P

Er.. now stay with me on this. As far as exping goes.. yeah, its pretty useless. But I'm thinking if I wanted to do stuff solo now, it might just provide me with more safety than using /war. Less downtime, can heal yourself.. Now with added mp refreshing, toss a sword and shield on and you've got yourself some well.. not so quick tp gaining.. but faster than it was before >.> Okay.. bad example.

Before the update I'd use Drk/Pld to go well.. basically power level a good friend or help with thier party's healing support while I had nothing better to do, which is pretty much the combo's best use, and I can tell you first hand.. it does a pretty dandy job. >.>; Being a Drk also gives me the ablity to save thier asses when they fuck up and call for help :3 .... It happens sometimes.. and its nice to be able to save people on a job that normally can help anyone. XD

So yeah, think about that! Drk/Pld for the win.. and oh yeah.. it still amuses me to no end when I bust out Holy Circle and Cover.

If you can't tell.. Im not serious, well.. about the PLing I am.. it really makes a decent combo for that, if Drk is your only high lvl job (which ..it is for me) but otherwise.. its just a funny combo that just got somewhat more fun to play with.

On the subject of the improved Pld though.. I must say the changes freaking rock my socks. I hopped on my lvl 50 pld tonight and solo'd some Evil Weapons in Sauro and omg.. the tp gain .. I <3 it so much, I'm gonna easily out tp the melee for sure now without even trying to. XD And don't get me started on how awesome auto-refresh is to have! *drool*
 
How about this one...

DRK/PLD 70+ using Axe/shield or Sword/shield

Hop in front of someone, and pop Blood Weapon + Souleater and Cover. Kekekekekekekekekeke ^_________________________^
 
As far as BRD is concerned, as everyone knows BRD is pure support.

BRD/WHM gives way more support-wise than BRD/PLD, WAY WAY more. I can have up to 400+ MP on my BRD75 if I want, but frankly, even in HNM situation, I never use that much, and I'm always paired (in those situations) with a RDM anyway. If needed he can refresh me, but he barely needs to, ballad is more than I need.

Now for non-HNM situations, we're talking 70-75:

I can't think of a situation in which you're fighting mobs that:

- don't give you status effect (= you need /WHM since you need several people to -na)
or
- don't AOE (= Curaga which BRD end up doing all the time since they barely draw hate)

Actually most mobs (except for weapons in moon/sky) do both.

Considering how much I use -na and erase, there is no way I'm giving that up for +1MP/tick, considering I can already refresh myself, and that if I want +1MP/tick, there is gear that can give that to me.

For the BLM case I agree with Fire, not worth it either.

For the WHM case I still don't think it's worth it. Also, WHM subs SMN for Aerial Armor more than the 1 MP/tick I believe. Finally, I think that over an hour, Conserve MP makes you save quite a lot of MP you don't (or can't) consider in that equation.

I'm thinking /PLD for solo purpose is pretty cool though. In PT, not so much.
 
Rones said:
Divine seal with cure 3 every 10 mins exactly for max hp is 46mp x 6 = 276 mp saved every hour. Much less than the 1,200 an hour from autorefresh.

Can't really compare divine seal combined with curaga 2 vs autorefresh since it depends on just how many people the curaga 2 is healing. However, 120 mp curaga 2 x 6 = 720 mp saved, still less than autorefresh. Although, it might cost you more or less mp to cure the same hp with single target spells. If pld could use curagas, autorefresh would straight up beat divine seal. That is why I recommend using it against non-aoe enemies where one person takes most of the dmg, such as with a pld.
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It's not the save MP factor, it's the Big Numbers in a small time factor.

I Quick Divine seal > Curaga II from a Blm can keep the chain going, for instance if You just got hit with Great Bleat. I will erase a melee (and sometimes a silly whm or Rdm that gets too close) while the whm gets the tank and the other melee. Then while the Whm is healing some MP I go DS Curaga II the Frontline, seeing as how I can rest during the fight and whm can't for the most part.

It's usefulness is highly situational. Maybe if I was lvl 70 and headed to the Den of Rancor. Or perhaps out in Ule*whatthemafuckever* range. I haven't done much in sky, a couple of partys at the Ulli camp, and not much else, but it seems viable for that. But oh, how I do love my stoneskin.

Solo with /pld is where it's at for blm tho. I wonder if shield mastery works when you have no shield skill... like with Fairy shield and what not.
 
/pld for any mage job sure sounds nice...
However /smn for whm;
auto-fresh, plus the AA, and a nice earring if I'm not mistaken.
/rdm (or /whm*) for blm;
buffs, dispel, gravity and why not add a staggering Fast Cast I & II. :P
/blm or /whm for rdm:
aspir, drain, escape, ES countra *-na, curaga's, erase, DS and tele's.

I'd say the things you get from the other sj's is greater then 1mp/tick.
Because if the auto-refresh is so necessary for anyone to be able to
their job, it's not the choice of subjob that's the problem.


Although, war/pld anyone? ^^b
 
Kalendor said:
As far as BRD is concerned, as everyone knows BRD is pure support.

BRD/WHM gives way more support-wise than BRD/PLD, WAY WAY more. I can have up to 400+ MP on my BRD75 if I want, but frankly, even in HNM situation, I never use that much, and I'm always paired (in those situations) with a RDM anyway. If needed he can refresh me, but he barely needs to, ballad is more than I need.

Now for non-HNM situations, we're talking 70-75:

I can't think of a situation in which you're fighting mobs that:

- don't give you status effect (= you need /WHM since you need several people to -na)
or
- don't AOE (= Curaga which BRD end up doing all the time since they barely draw hate)

Actually most mobs (except for weapons in moon/sky) do both.

Considering how much I use -na and erase, there is no way I'm giving that up for +1MP/tick, considering I can already refresh myself, and that if I want +1MP/tick, there is gear that can give that to me.

For the BLM case I agree with Fire, not worth it either.

For the WHM case I still don't think it's worth it. Also, WHM subs SMN for Aerial Armor more than the 1 MP/tick I believe. Finally, I think that over an hour, Conserve MP makes you save quite a lot of MP you don't (or can't) consider in that equation.

I'm thinking /PLD for solo purpose is pretty cool though. In PT, not so much.
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Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I read before that bards who don't drain their MP pools are lazy, and that is complete crap. In a good party, especially with NIN tank, BRD should not have to cure except in emergencies, where DS Curaga II is invaluable. I say they should not have to cure because they should not have time to cure; if exp moves fast enough a Bard should have time to sing 2 ballads, 2 melee songs, and 3 debuffs, not much more. The extra 1mp/tick is really insignificant when you have a 3mp/tick refresh whenever you need it, or especially if you're paired with a RDM. Other thing to add is that bards, (or at least I) need stoneskin. It has literally saved my life while fighting goblins, considering our HP is so piss poor (and this is with about +95 HP from gear and Opo-Crown). Even if it doesn't save my life, it's still a very helpful spell when fighting mobs with AoE.

One more thing, at level 69, as a naked BRD/WHM, I have 161 MP. I gain another 100 from gear and food, so not all of us gain most of our MP from gear. Going /PLD would cut a lot of that out.

Again, a good idea, but /PLD over /WHM is really implausible in a party situation; we use the -na and -aga spells too often. Soloing might be interesting.
 
Rones said:
Now if just more blms actually used stoneskin and blink. So often is it I find myself raising blms because they never used them. At least with autorefresh they can't forget that. :biggrin: Is Stoneskin worth an opportunity cost of 1,200 mp an hour?
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1200 MP in an hour is nothing to a BLM. I throw away 1200 MP every 3 minutes. Stoneskin, blink and phalanx are absolutely critical to me. I never nuke without it up and I always know I'm going to pull hate. How do I know I'm going to pull hate? Because I'm nuking. If I'm not pulling hate, I nuke more. Why should I stop? I've got blink, stoneskin, phalanx up. If there's no AE and I'm not worried the tank won't get hate back before I do, I won't stand too far from the mob so that the melees won't have to chase the mob.
 
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