NIN Alternatives?

E

Ellah

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Hey, it's the desperate duoer again.

This time with a new and improved question.

After a whole lot of soul searching and conversing with the lovely SO I have decided to hang up my BLM hat until I don't have to solo it anymore.

So I swapped to THF. As a sub I want to use NIN because it adds Dex, Agi and more importantly I get two Daggers! Now, I personally very much detest what the playerbase has done to Ninja, meaning I will not gil-tank, much like I will not gil-buff or gil-dd.

But here's the conundrum:
I like the class! There, I said it. I'm only at level eight, but I already dig the armour and the idea of dual wielding two of those nifty Japanian lead pipes sounds very fun.
But alas, I will not afford to Utsusemi tank. I looked into some of the abilities and such, and found that I can still contribute to a party by casting my ninjutsu enfeebles (Gil, but not as harsh as eating +1ONRY food), swinging and doing SA and TA with THF sub.

Is this at all feasable? I know it's not the mainstream way, and probably not at all following the current Zeitgeist of FFXI. Am I crazy in trying to turn a NIN into a THF, because that is essentially what I would be playing, a THF with an off main job. I only plan on taking it to 37, so endgame is not going to be an issue. Could I make it to 37, though, or will it, like my BLM, end up soloing it out?
 
If you're going to /NIN, you're going to afford blink-tanking.

Preferrably shared with a WAR/NIN or another NIN/WAR. ;P

Other parties -might- take you, or if you build them yourself.

You can't even use TA with any main job until you're 60.

With THF/NIN, you're still going to be blink tanking when you solo, and you will be pulling with Utusemi cast.

Get used to it.

If you want to do it without Utsusemi, make your own parties and hope they don't leave you.
 
Ellah said:
I will not afford to Utsusemi tank
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Honestly, then I would never bother to try and party. If I had a Nin in a party that refused to use Ichi/Ni I'd A) If I was leader tell them once and if they did not comply replace them B) Tell leader to make them use Ichi/Ni and if they didn't comply I'd leave the party.


Ellah said:
doing SA and TA with THF sub.
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If your able to SA successfully then your not tanking. Also, you said you only plan on taking Nin to 37 so you'll never TA since if your /Thf you get that at 60.

Ellah said:
Is this at all feasable?
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Yes, if you plan on solo/duo/trio. IMHO it's not fair to the rest of the party that you want to cheap and not tank the way Nin is meant to tank.

Neisan said:
If you're going to be gimp, serious people won't want to party with you.
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Agreed. And besides that you will build a reputation of someone that doesn't contribute well to a party setting. Now you may not care about your Nin, but your other jobs will more then likely be effected by not receiving invites.
 
Solo, it's easy if you do it in small chunks combined with EXP scrolls. Just stash signet on and some evasion gear and fight EP/DC. I'm working on soloing it to 75 at the moment. And bring some Selbina milk.

You don't really main tank pre 37, you'll most likely co-tank with someone else who has Provoke.

Utsusemi tools are cheap as hell anyway. I'm estimating that 1 stack of toolbags should take you to Level 37. (that's 12x99 casts)

OR ...

Get a static, i.e. a "subjob" static where you can go as NIN/whatever and be happy.
 
Don't be gimp. Use nin tools. If you don't want to use shadows on nin, don't lvl the job. Plain and simple.
 
I'm confused. Are you talking about lvl thf with nin sub? If so you would only need tools from 24to 37THF which shouldn't be too bad. If you are pulling you'll definately want the shadows. I haven't had much experience lvling thf too high but I think that you should get the tools if you are going to sub nin.
 
Relapse said:
Yes, if you plan on solo/duo/trio. IMHO it's not fair to the rest of the party that you want to cheap and not tank the way Nin is meant to tank.
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Well, whether NIN was *meant* to tank or not is another story, but yes, the plan was to do small LS groups and duoing. I am well aware that no ubar leet OMG25KANHOUR party would take me. I am speaking purely about LS parties and duoing.

I was wondering if the mechanics of it work. Especially if my main duo partner is either a WAR or a MNK.

As for another point that someone brought up:

How far does one "unit" of utsusemi tools get you?
If it truly is the case that 8k gill in Utsusemi tools will get me to 37, I won't have a problem, but I have the sneaking suspicion that that particular statement is an "OMG35kANHOUR" statement people keep spouting.
 
Ellah said:
OMG25KANHOUR
"OMG35kANHOUR"
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STFU seriously. If this is just for a fucking LS duo party, then ask your fucking LS duo partner, don't bring your dipshit diatribe to this forum. Your questions hold no value besides someone too lazy to pay for the reason NIN is a viable job.
 
Whether or not NIN was meant to tank? SE doesn't know what the hell they 'meant' to do half the time, and whether or not it was 'meant' to tank is a moot point since even SE themselves have accepted that NIN can and is being used for a tank in many situations (even if the don't like it, and if they were completely dead set against it they would have probably broken NIN tanking by now).


Even duoing as NIN I still don't think /thf is a good job to sub, especially pre-Sneak Attack, and even then, thf doesn't match up to what other subs could offer.


There's a difference in us being radical elitist, and disagreeing with someone who doesn't try.
 
You could farm up enough gil in an hour to supply tools for months. Don't be lazy. If all you plan to do is Duo with your partner, so be it, but don't try seaching for a pt without nin tools... You'll be laughed at, and may even get your name on the flame board over it.
 
Nycon said:
You could farm up enough gil in an hour to supply tools for months.
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Is that a realistic statement? I am honestly asking here, as I am not sure whether I should take that with a grain of salt or take it seriously. If that is true, then I don't see why NIN is demonized as an expensive job.
That unit someone was talking about: 12x99 casts. How much is that about? And how many levels will it carry me, presumably?

What exactly *is* the cost of nin tools for tanking?

Because I *know* people don't *ever* claim to be able to do unrealistic and overexagerated stuff. (Read "OMG35kANHOUR EVERY HOUR ALWAYS! NOBODY EVER AFK'S AND BREAKS AN EXP CHAIN! THERE IS NO COMPETITION FOR PULLS! EVER!" just because it throws my new friend into a fit.)

P.S. I wasn't aware the flameboard still existed! ... *scrolls down*
 
Ellah said:
Is that a realistic statement? I am honestly asking here, as I am not sure whether I should take that with a grain of salt or take it seriously. If that is true, then I don't see why NIN is demonized as an expensive job.
That unit someone was talking about: 12x99 casts. How much is that about? And how many levels will it carry me, presumably?

What exactly *is* the cost of nin tools for tanking?

Because I *know* people don't *ever* claim to be able to do unrealistic and overexagerated stuff. (Read "OMG35kANHOUR EVERY HOUR ALWAYS! NOBODY EVER AFK'S AND BREAKS AN EXP CHAIN! THERE IS NO COMPETITION FOR PULLS! EVER!" just because it throws my new friend into a fit.)

P.S. I wasn't aware the flameboard still existed! ... *scrolls down*
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Tools used to cost a lot more, RMT have driven them down, for better or worse. 1-37 you can probably expect to use a 1-2 stacks per party, probably no more than that depending on length of the party. If you're tanking (likely, that's what people are going to invite you for), you will be "spamming" utsusemi at a reasonable pace. It's not as horrible as you'd think for some reason, but you will be using a lot.

If you aren't going to do this, seriously, don't bother trying to get parties. It's not fair to anyone else. Solo, duo with someone who's okay with it, whatever. Just don't pretend to be playing a job you aren't putting the effort into to play 'properly'.

If you can find it in your soul to buy a stack of toolbags, that will last you a very long time. That's your decision though.

Once you're on thief, I'd imagine that same stack would last a lot longer, but I can't speak for a job I've never levelled. Good luck either way though.
 
Ellah said:
Is that a realistic statement? I am honestly asking here, as I am not sure whether I should take that with a grain of salt or take it seriously. If that is true, then I don't see why NIN is demonized as an expensive job.
That unit someone was talking about: 12x99 casts. How much is that about? And how many levels will it carry me, presumably?

What exactly *is* the cost of nin tools for tanking?
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5314&sid=16&stack=1

A stack of shihei tools for Utsu is going for roughly 37k for a stack of 12 toolbags (12x99 = 1188 casts). This should last you many lvls. I haven't leveled nin for a long time, but I'd think one stack of bags could get you 10 lvls+ pre 37.(correct me if i'm wrong other nin's out there).

If you know how to farm(knowing whats the most efficient), it shouldn't take you more then a couple hours to farm up 50k worth of Gil. Hint: Use ffxiah.com and look for things that are easy to farm, and sell fast. That 50k will get you a stack of shihei bags and some tonko tools for invis. Spending a couple more hours farming, and you could get yourself some elemental and enfeeble tools as well. Slow, para, blind can be a life saver in sticky situations on NIN.

Anyways, to each his own, but don't come on here asking a question like the one you did, unless you are prepared to be called cheap, gimp, newb, ect... Good luck to you..
 
Just buy a stack of shihei toolbags, it'll last you an incredibly long amount of time as you're leveling to 37, mainly since you don't have Ni to cast. Then, any leftovers you have when you're done leveling, you can just use them on your main and they likely will last even longer since you wouldn't be tanking as a thief. You won't even really need the elemental ninjutsu, since all you'd have is the ichi's at that level and they suck.

If you're going to solo/duo/trio your whole way to 37, you can probably get away with it if there's another tanking job. If you're going to try joining standard parties, suck it up and tank. Even if you're not going to be the tank, you should still bring the debuff tools to help out, they're not expensive at all. Farm for an hour or two, you'd buy all the tools you'd need.
 
You have a pretty open minded conception of things, however nin tanking and with its high agi and dex added to keep evading tanks(read: keeping shadows up longer).

Its pretty hard to go against the cookie-cutter, they're powerful and 'most' effective for a reason, people put it very well: you're just slowing down a regular party and a good party however you put it that 6k may turn to 3k or worse(assuming 24-37).

/war gives more tools for better damage and dot over time than /thf and double attack which applies to both weapons which can lead to multiple attacks(50+) useful for dealing dd and holding hate and keeping mages alive.

If you want to try a new idea, go ahead, however do it with someone with the patience not people you don't know and assume you're well informed on what to do as natural aspects of the job.

SE does a lot of things, but something new always comes out different than what they expect, nin tanking was one of them.

Is your concern in mostly cost? its not that bad, I usually have 20k and under with me and have enough for two stacks and food which helps me solo as rdm/nin.

stacks are 4.5k bud that's not much level WW and make your own free by getting materials
 
Ellah said:
Is that a realistic statement? I am honestly asking here, as I am not sure whether I should take that with a grain of salt or take it seriously. If that is true, then I don't see why NIN is demonized as an expensive job.
That unit someone was talking about: 12x99 casts. How much is that about? And how many levels will it carry me, presumably?

What exactly *is* the cost of nin tools for tanking?

Because I *know* people don't *ever* claim to be able to do unrealistic and overexagerated stuff. (Read "OMG35kANHOUR EVERY HOUR ALWAYS! NOBODY EVER AFK'S AND BREAKS AN EXP CHAIN! THERE IS NO COMPETITION FOR PULLS! EVER!" just because it throws my new friend into a fit.)

P.S. I wasn't aware the flameboard still existed! ... *scrolls down*
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I think I used a stack of toolbags to get to 37; maybe a bit more but not much. Do your future parties or duo partners a favor and get enfeebling tools also. The two hours you spend farming for the tools will save you several hours of time on your way to 37.

Also, your use of "OMG35kANHOUR" over and over is very annoying and pretty stupid. I have never heard anyone say they can get 25k or 35 an hour on any low level job so not only is it an annoying thing to read, it's also grossly inaccurate.

Also, do your server a favor and don't sub nin on your thf before level 24 at least. -.-
 
Don't even sub nin until you get a decent pair of daggers that actually give you a boost to stats. Dual wielding a pair of knives that do nothing, just make your delay longer. Sub something that is actually good, like rng or drg.
 
NIN/THF is a shitty, horrible idea. You'd do pathetic damage with sneak attack since your per-hit damage is so low; so a crit isn't going to increase it by enough to be worth using. WAR is an infinitely superior subjob, long before you even get double attack.
 
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