NIN Alternatives?

Makelith said:
Don't even sub nin until you get a decent pair of daggers that actually give you a boost to stats. Dual wielding a pair of knives that do nothing, just make your delay longer. Sub something that is actually good, like rng or drg.
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No.

Even Dual Wield 1 is a 10% reduction in the total delay, so you'd still be swinging faster than you would with a single dagger. You lose a little TP due to the delay reduction, but you still swing slightly faster.
 
I don't know if anyone said this, probably someone did, but I'm too lazy to read all of it.. but not using shadows on your ninja is like a white mage not using a cure or enhancing magic skill on their pty.

Ninja isn't that expensive up to 37, and you can always BCNM the uts. scrolls, and even quest the first one, so you can practically get them for free if you keep trying at them, that or farm for one, I'm sure it's not as expensive as it used to be.
 
Ellah said:
If that is true, then I don't see why NIN is demonized as an expensive job.
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Lets take a look at what you would need to level that is expensive.

lvl 7
Leaping/Bounding Boots 350-400k for the leaping boots. Bounding are free. Your theif will need these too. Get them.

Lvl 9
30k for Tonko: Ichi or quest it if you have the fame.

lvl 12
Traveler's Mantle 30k Not neccesary, but it helps.
Utsusemi: Ichi 180k If you don't have this you shouldn't play this job. quest it if you have the fame.

lvl 14
Rings will cost you about 15-30k each depending on which ones you get.

lvl 15
All your elemental Ichis will cost around 25k at this level. you can buy them from a vendor, Chiyo (Norg).
Get some fresh Blood and go spawn Chocoboleech in Dangruff Wadi for a nice free level 15 R/EX Katana. It's good to hang onto for Level capped stuff.
If you want to do some Salvage, you can gather up some Hoshikazu gear and some of it will last you for a few levels. or

lvl 16
Bone +1 gear. 10k-15k per piece, 5 pieces total, but you would really only need 3 or 4 of em.

Lvl 19
Kurayami: Ichi for 30K. It's ninja blind. You want this. quest it if you have the fame.

lvl 21
You can upgrade your Bone+1 to Beetle +1. About the same price.
Night cape fo around 30k. Spike Necklace for 10k

lvl 23
Hojo: Ichi 50k. Ninja Slow. You want this. quest it if you have the fame.

lvl 24
You can upgrade to chain gear, but I wouldn't reccomend it. The 2 or 3 evasion you get from beetle will be better than the 10 or so extra def from the Chain stuff. Plus you get to add 10 more evasion at this level with an Emperor/Empress Hairpin. 700k for that. Also, trade your travelers Mantle for a Nomads Mantle (20k).

lvl 25
You could trade your beetle gear for shade +1. I didn't because it cost so much. About 100k-150k per piece. Kingdom Trousers are decent at 40k at this level. If you got the Hoshikazu at 15, you can do more salvage and upgrade it to Tsukikazu gear at this level.

lvl 29
Couple of Dodge Earrings, 30k each.

lvl 30
Rajas Ring gooooood. Finish CoP to get that one.
Jubaku:Ichi as well. 60k Ninja Paralyze. You want this. quest it if you have the fame.

lvl 33
Peacock Charm. 1.8 mill or an assload of camping. Good luck with that one.

lvl 34
Horomusha Kote or Ochimusha Kote(R/EX) or Ochiudo's Kote for 500k

lvl 35
You can upgrade that salavage gear again.

lvl 36
Ring upgrades, get what you want, but anythign decent is going to cost you 30k-50k each.

lvl 37
Utsusemi: Ni 350k. The reason you leveled ninja for a sub is mainly this spell.

And that's just the expensive stuff. There are lots of things under 10k for you to buy along the way as well. You'll also spend about 300k on tools to last the duration of leveling Ninja, for Blind, Para, Slow, and Shadows. That is of course, if you buy a stack of tool bags for all that, which you won't use half of by lvl 37. Only buy stacks of blind, para, slow tool bags if you want to level ninja to 75. Otherwise just buy them a stack at a time.

It can be done cheaper than all this without sucking too bad, but you don't wanna skimp on gear too much or you'll just die a lot. But it is expensive. I didn't even mention the Katanas.

Also, I played the job as a taru and only to 62. It got too expensive for me right about there. It's been a year or more since I leveled it so some of that stuff might be a bit out of date. Reguardless, people don't just say Nin is expensive to level. Ninja is expensive to level.
 
Most of those (aside from the spells) are luxuries, however. Something to expect someone who already has a 75 to go and get for levelling NIN as a second job or as a sub or something, but not something for a new player to go after though.

Ultimately those are also all one-time purchases which can be resold when you're done, or kept for multiple jobs if you see fit, so either way it's not like that amount of money is being thrown away for NIN levelling and nothing else, never to be seen again. You're either benefiting for more permanent jobs or you're getting a refund when you're done with it. Either way it's not a concern.

The spell scrolls will be a little painful (although many of them can be quested for free, pending Norg fame; notable exception is Utsu Ni, which can't), and those aren't refundable. But the tools? Total non-concern. Shihei's so cheap these days that if spending money on it is actually a problem to you, then spending money on *anything* in this game will be a problem to you. Debuffing tools are largely fairly cheap too (and don't get spammed as much as shihei), although if I recall the hojo tools can be a little more painful.

As far as the notion of NIN being expensive because of spamming tools... that's from "spinning the elemental wheel", since some of those tools *can* be expensive *and* you'd be spamming them. However, this is a complete and utter non-concern if you're only levelling NIN for a sub to 37, since you don't start spinning the wheel until 40.
 
Remind me to avoid you as a decent choice in a party. Seems that you are aiming for sub-mediocre at best. Give me elitists who bust a gut in my party any day of the week.
 
So you don't want to spend gil to level ninja, but you like the job yet wish to give yourself a bad name because you're too lazy.

Level /war if you want a fairly cheap ride to 37.

Quick edit: Trippy laid it out really well. My advice though is to skip the Elemental ichi as they take too damn long to cast.
 
Yeah, that's why I didn't talk about the price of elemental tools.

I used the -ton Ni sspells quite a bit though. I didn't have an Int build though, does that make a much of a difference with those spells? And maybe use an elemental staff?
 
I think you'd lose too much tp from switching, unless it was a non issue such as backwards tanking. I used to see Nin magic bursting with Ni elements back in the day...

I believe INT does affect them, but unsure if you see a significant effect without stacking a lot of it on.
 
Do us all a favor and go NIN/WHM and solo.
 
This player isn't even on our server, nor on the Slyph server as stated in profile. So ... no need to avoid.
 
Trippyhippy said:
Yeah, that's why I didn't talk about the price of elemental tools.

I used the -ton Ni sspells quite a bit though. I didn't have an Int build though, does that make a much of a difference with those spells? And maybe use an elemental staff?
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Yes, Int and elemental staves effect them. It is a fun way to tank /rdm or /blm if your PT will let you try it. In the late-40s early-50s I made my own pts a couple of times so that I could nin/rdm (didn't have blm leveled at the time) and invited a pld. Most plds aren't able to hold hate against an ele-wheel spamming ninja (first 30 seconds the pld will have hate then mob will turn and they wont be able to get it back). Depending on your race and gear, each spell does 60-90 dmg on VTs so each turn of the wheel does 360-540ish dmg (if using katanas add in the dmg that the occasional swing does). It was a fun way to play pre-good weapon skills and haste gear. I love ninja (my favorite job) and spinning the wheel is the most fun way to play for me but it isn't very viable post lvl 55.

So to all you lvl 40-55 pt leaders, if you see a ninja/blm(rdm) lfping - grab them lol. They have great DoT and will wind up tanking the majority of the fights even without provoke :biggrin:

~Lews
 
Vilurum said:
Most of those (aside from the spells) are luxuries, however. Something to expect someone who already has a 75 to go and get for levelling NIN as a second job or as a sub or something, but not something for a new player to go after though.

Ultimately those are also all one-time purchases which can be resold when you're done, or kept for multiple jobs if you see fit, so either way it's not like that amount of money is being thrown away for NIN levelling and nothing else, never to be seen again. You're either benefiting for more permanent jobs or you're getting a refund when you're done with it. Either way it's not a concern.

The spell scrolls will be a little painful (although many of them can be quested for free, pending Norg fame; notable exception is Utsu Ni, which can't), and those aren't refundable. But the tools? Total non-concern. Shihei's so cheap these days that if spending money on it is actually a problem to you, then spending money on *anything* in this game will be a problem to you. Debuffing tools are largely fairly cheap too (and don't get spammed as much as shihei), although if I recall the hojo tools can be a little more painful.

As far as the notion of NIN being expensive because of spamming tools... that's from "spinning the elemental wheel", since some of those tools *can* be expensive *and* you'd be spamming them. However, this is a complete and utter non-concern if you're only levelling NIN for a sub to 37, since you don't start spinning the wheel until 40.
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Spinning the wheel isn't even that expensive, most of those tools are under 10k a stack. The current prices for the tools according to FFXIAH is:

Hiraishin(Raiton) - 4k
Kawahori-Ogi(Huton) - 4k
Makibishi(Doton) - 4k
Mizu-Deppo(Suiton) - 5k
Uchitake(Katon) - 10k
Tsurara(Hyoton) - 4k

Sairui-Ran(Kurayami) - 6-7k
Jusatsu(Jubaku) - 15k
Kaginawa(Hojo) - 8300

So if you're completely out of tools, aside from shihei, it'll run you 61k to buy everything, but those tools will last a good while. Usually I'd use about half a stack per party, unless the party was pretty long. Most of the time I only needed to spin the wheel once to maintain hate, or the mob would be dead before I could do a full rotation, so my elemental tools weren't draining all that fast.

Unless you join really crappy parties that get very slow exp, you shouldn't need to spend that much on tools before changing back over to meleeing as your primary source of holding hate.
 
Dejan said:
Pffft all of you... Just sub /sam and third eye/seigan for a free utsu, and you even get meditate and hasso! XD
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Except we'd need a 2-handed weapon.
 
Ninja can use Great Katana.

They just kinda suck with them.
 
Bajaratt said:
No.

Even Dual Wield 1 is a 10% reduction in the total delay, so you'd still be swinging faster than you would with a single dagger. You lose a little TP due to the delay reduction, but you still swing slightly faster.
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I should have just said you effectively double your delay for another shitty weapon, when you could sub something that would make you more beneficial to the whole party like /drg or /rng.
 
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