NIN and RNG gimping: SE strikes again.

Rinoah said:
It really will not get rid of shitty NIN tanks...it will just mean more deaths for the party probably...i have seen just as many shitty PLD as NIN. there is no real way to find out until you invite them to party.
And as for RNG "nerf" it will probably be long range = more dmg for bows and close range = more dmg for guns and Xbows...
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everyone will switch over to marksmenship so they can melee for tp. I doubt it will be like that
 
I had figured that a ranger and a black mage nerf was on the way for a long time. The fact is, we're too much more effective than other damage dealers. I'm only suprised that black mage was spared. I've always put the two as equal on the excessive power meter. While I'd prefer that other damage dealers were brought up to par in comparison, it's clear that given the chance, SE prefers to bring down the strong rather than bringing up the weak.

I didn't think ninja was overpowered. Even before this nerf, ninjas had difficulty holding hate. I have yet to find a ninja that isn't completely reliant on a thief for hate. If this nerf forces ninjas to use more tricks in their arsenal, than I guess some good will come of this, but I don't see why what's probably the most challenging job to play well is being made even more difficult.
 
I like the changes that always bothered me having nin tank and there suppose to be even more stealthy than a thf. As for rng that makes complete since ive played a few other mmorpgs and some only allow you to ranged att from a range and once they get close you gotta melee attack. But what they can do for a better ballanced change is make nin do a tad bit more melee dam and low there emity somemore and raise sam abilty to tank. I dont understand you sam dont have better tanking abilty I know there tp machines but they get all kinds of emity bonus af gear to so why not make sam able to tank. Then they can make nin a completey stealthy job which would completey change the role of the nin in a party. But to sum it up nin shouldn't be tanks in any way shape or form. I also think drks should be able to tank undead somewhat equal to plds maybe alittle less. I mean there all dark enchanted in a way and there more resistant to dark magic so why not have a drk able to tank undead enemies. That way drks wouldn't get shitted on so much in pre light sc lvls. In that since make every job able to tank the type of enemy there resistant against, sam tanking demons, drks tankin undead, drg tanking dragons (which would require more dragon type mobs runniing around) whm able to tank elementals (which would require more elemental type mob around). That would somewhat change the whole dynamic of parties and what there targeting and how to go about killin it the best. In general pld would be able to tank every mob exceptionaly well.
 
Pompidou said:
I had figured that a ranger and a black mage nerf was on the way for a long time. The fact is, we're too much more effective than other damage dealers. I'm only suprised that black mage was spared. I've always put the two as equal on the excessive power meter. While I'd prefer that other damage dealers were brought up to par in comparison, it's clear that given the chance, SE prefers to bring down the strong rather than bringing up the weak.

I didn't think ninja was overpowered. Even before this nerf, ninjas had difficulty holding hate. I have yet to find a ninja that isn't completely reliant on a thief for hate. If this nerf forces ninjas to use more tricks in their arsenal, than I guess some good will come of this, but I don't see why what's probably the most challenging job to play well is being made even more difficult.
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VERY well put ^^
 
reddogneo said:
I also think drks should be able to tank undead somewhat equal to plds maybe alittle less. I mean there all dark enchanted in a way and there more resistant to dark magic so why not have a drk able to tank undead enemies. That way drks wouldn't get shitted on so much in pre light sc lvls.
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Well we suck on undead mostly. Drains, absorbs, hell even our 2hr doesn't work on them. If anything it would be Arcana as that's what weak against us. But...I don't really wanna tank -.- I'll pass lol
 
I know some ppl choose DD melee jobs cuz they dont want to tank but that way it would give everyone more tankin experience makes less shitty tanks in the long run. I Have been coming up with a game idea with a friend of mines and we have all the machancs just about figured out but we looked at all the mmorpgs and this can work exceptionaly well. My idea may not apply so much to drks but still for sam,drg why in the hell cant they tank demons and dragons dont they have a trait that makes them resistant to them or is it just a skill I havent played for a month im not 100%.
 
hey has trait that intimidates that type of mobs. so does drk for arcana. their ability is to give thise trait to the pt for 1 min to the whole pt
 
This is fucking gay

I didn spend millions upon millions for ranger to be gimped...the main reason they did this is for Kirin.... because it is a mob that most end levels get to fight regardless of being NA/JP

Im just pissed because Nin was my 2nd job... ive already invested a shitload into it 37-50, and now it was all for nothing
 
Rngs arent being gimped it just there makin rng firhgt from a range its the way it should have been since this game came out
 
Tyrath said:
hey has trait that intimidates that type of mobs. so does drk for arcana. their ability is to give thise trait to the pt for 1 min to the whole pt
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uhh...i seem to have cut some stuff off while changing the post...

supposed to say "They have a trait..."
 
reddogneo said:
I know some ppl choose DD melee jobs cuz they dont want to tank but that way it would give everyone more tankin experience makes less shitty tanks in the long run. I Have been coming up with a game idea with a friend of mines and we have all the machancs just about figured out but we looked at all the mmorpgs and this can work exceptionaly well. My idea may not apply so much to drks but still for sam,drg why in the hell cant they tank demons and dragons dont they have a trait that makes them resistant to them or is it just a skill I havent played for a month im not 100%.
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Well, the fact that they don't get the best tanking armor(DRK gets some, but not all, the rest barely get any) or no/almost no enmity boosts is one reason they don't tank. Another would be they don't have much in the way of hate-holding ability, so they'd lose hate a lot. If you want a sam to tank demons, get a real tank and just have the sam do their ancient circle, or whatever it's called for sam to give the tank those buffs.

This also wouldn't give great tanking experience, since the methods of tanking are wildly different among the current tanks and they both play differently from normal melee DD jobs. Plus, I hate tanking, so I don't care about getting any tanking experience.
 
NIN tanks will just have to USE their other tools to control hate. With 30 seconds recast for Ichi and 50 seconds for Ni, between each spell, they shouldn't have a hard time holding hate at all. Each of the NIN's tools (with the exception of Tonko and Utsusemi) will generate more hate. With these tools at their disposal, I wonder why more NIN's don't use them now.

Scenario:
Puller returns with the mob. NIN tank has Utsusemi up. NIN Provokes (Hate spike), before the last shadow is absorbed they can cast Kurayami (Hate spike). The enemy is blinded, the NIN can Utsusemi again and Provoke (Hate spike). Hojo (Hate spike), Dokumori (Hate spike), Jubaku (Hate spike)... All the elemental spells... You guessed it, HATE SPIKE!


Add this to all the the constant attacks by dual wield, frequent Weapon skill attacks and +Emnity gear, there shouldn't be a NIN that could lose hate for very long.

As a PLD, I can only wish I had this many tricks up my sleeve. Not to mention the fact that since these are all from "tools" and not MP, there is no waiting/resting for MP to regenerate. So, yeah, I'd say a NIN could still tank.
 
As far as NIN goes, the downside will mostly come in the form of increased involvement and increased cost per level. But hey, you should have known the job would be expensive when you started it.

As far as RNG goes... Honestly, your job won't be ruined by the change. In all likelihood, you'll just have to sit back at range and shoot, as opposed to jumping in the mobs face and unloading on it with melee and ranged. Less TP will indeed lower your overall damage potential, but that was overdue.
 
nerf

I don't know what to think about the update, if jobs are being nerfed or harder to use or what not. I decided to take up a tanking job to lvl recently. My main is a level 62 White Mage and I have a DD job in the mid forties, so I thought why not a tanking job. I chose NIN. I'm just about to hit level 10 with her and now I see this update coming out. I guess I'll learn from scratch on this one, still not sure though.

(This post copied from my LS fourm)
As for Ranger. Being a main healer in exp parties it's very difficult sometimes to keep DD's alive when they bring it upon themselves. My favorite is the Barrage + Sidewinder technique. So instead of using my MP right and dealing it over time, I have to bum rush a bunch of cure IV's to keep the ranger alive which kills my mana pool and exp chains. Sometimes the mob even turns on me. I've pt'd with good rngs and power damage rangers. Even with my dragoon, if I pull too much hate and don't have high jump ready, I turn off my auto-lock and turn my back to the mob so I stop attacking it and shed off my hate. So once more, no offense to anyone but being a healer, I welcome some damage nerfs ^_^;
 
nap

Man Raesvelg >< Take a nap!!! ></)
 
the ranger gimp should not be too bad i dont think. that would piss a ton of people off and make them quit cause it matters so much to them :lol:
 
I was surprised that the developers chose to try to correct imbalance by weakening rangers instead of improving meleers. I guess they think they've made partying easy enough. They probably have.

And to cater it to the flameboard, since a casual discussion has no place here:

Stop whining if you're a ninja. 95% of ninjas don't even have an enmity swap-in set, while everyone expects thieves to carry around 3-4 full sets of equipment. Thieves are considered gimp if they don't. Mages are considered gimp if they don't. Ninjas shouldn't be immune. Time to step down from the pedestal that SE accidentally put you on and join the real game. Ninjas are the best traditional xp party tanks in the game, hands-down. It's time they earned it with at least a little work. And if you invite a ninja without a hate controller, you really don't belong in this discussion or in the pt-leader position in the first place.

It's the same case for rangers. There are too many gimps getting the royal treatment when everyone knows that the only reason most people who play ranger are not ignored endgame is because they play an imbalanced job that can deal damage. Maybe in some small insignificant way rangers might have to try to be good in order to be good now. For years, we've all known that gil is not an adequate price to pay for how powerful rangers are. It's why food is 80k a stack. A meleer could spend more on equipment and food than a ranger spends on equipment and arrows, and they still wouldn't be as powerful. That's imbalance.

So for Ninjas and Rangers, maybe it's about time you stepped up to the standards already in place for others. Since you didn't do it yourselves, maybe an update will force it!

Yeah, something along those lines.
 
I have to admit Ninjas are not, and yes i repeat NOT hate machines. but if u think about if they where, PLD's would be out of the job, i mean sure PLD r good tanks, can take a lot of hits cure bla bla... but still nin can tank mobs wich take a lot of dmg likes Dhamhels or strong HNM and such. anyways thing is they nerferd nin true but as they said maybe it will help Thf get more PT's... and as for ppl who dont use tools for NIN i wish u gl in PT's cause its true debuffing the Enemy really Does help. and to all those NIN h8ers. yes NIN can tank and they do a really good job 2, maybe u havent seen 1 tanking b/c ur a PLD or u just suck so plz cut the BS about nin cant tank, b/c they can and in some cases better than PLD. if u say nins cant take either then :

1. You never Partied with 1
2. You ptied with a sucky NIN (trust me ive seen a lot)
3. Your a PLD an u never PT with us (unless HNM or stuff like that)
4. idk your making stuff up
 
I was surprised that the developers chose to try to correct imbalance by weakening rangers instead of improving meleers. I guess they think they've made partying easy enough. They probably have.

And to cater it to the flameboard, since a casual discussion has no place here:

Stop whining if you're a ninja. 95% of ninjas don't even have an enmity swap-in set, while everyone expects thieves to carry around 3-4 full sets of equipment. Thieves are considered gimp if they don't. Mages are considered gimp if they don't. Ninjas shouldn't be immune. Time to step down from the pedestal that SE accidentally put you on and join the real game. Ninjas are the best traditional xp party tanks in the game, hands-down. It's time they earned it with at least a little work. And if you invite a ninja without a hate controller, you really don't belong in this discussion or in the pt-leader position in the first place.

It's the same case for rangers. There are too many gimps getting the royal treatment when everyone knows that the only reason most people who play ranger are not ignored endgame is because they play an imbalanced job that can deal damage. Maybe in some small insignificant way rangers might have to try to be good in order to be good now. For years, we've all known that gil is not an adequate price to pay for how powerful rangers are. It's why food is 80k a stack. A meleer could spend more on equipment and food than a ranger spends on equipment and arrows, and they still wouldn't be as powerful. That's imbalance.

So for Ninjas and Rangers, maybe it's about time you stepped up to the standards already in place for others. Since you didn't do it yourselves, maybe an update will force it!

Yeah, something along those lines.
 
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