Nin Question

[Lavi]

I'm also not the one who said to look to what every other NIN wears to decide what gear to wear, that was Zoolander. Please address the correct person next time.

Correction, that IS what you said. What Zoo said is:

Or just go ahead and check any ninja worth a damn on every single server and see what they use.

Which is a huge difference unless you're an idiot... Regardless, there's a difference between checking just anyone and checking someone who knows what they are doing.

please try to keep up next time.

That's some good advice, why don't you use it? Or better yet, just shut up.

 

[Orestes]

Baj, I had the same reaction at first, but I realized his hand and feet gear aren't applicable. (Nor is the whole Mars's Ring, but he comments on before that, and on Potent Belt for WSs before the Relic GKT.)

I think that since Amanomurakumo has a lower delay than Hagun, he uses the higher Store TP from JSE gloves rather than JSE feet. Obviously for Delay 450 one would use Hachiman Sune-Ate (+1) and either Dusk or Bandomusha or such. But that's just my interpretation.

Edit: He has parses, outdoes Spharai BB >_>;;

Yep, 437 delay on Amano is a good reason to use the JSE kotes for a 6-hit setup. Kaiten also grants a bonus to Store TP after you WS, so he could get away with the hachiman sune-ate +1's as well, but using the boots forces you to WS in them as well, and there's better options for that slot during WS. (rutter's)

But yeah, I've seen his parses too ; ;

 

[Zoolander]

Ok, let's go back to kindergarden, where we learned that one number is bigger than another.

I said you must suck if you NEED that 5 accuracy, not if you prefer it. At that level of gear it's obviously going to be nothing but a personal opinion. My accuracy is fine for me, so I prefer to hit a little harder rather than an incredibly small increase in overall accuracy. If you have a problem hitting, 5 accuracy is better, but if you're not having a problem hitting, 5 attack is better; I don't have a problem hitting, therefore the accuracy isn't beneficial. This is basic game mechanics, but you need me to explain it to you?

Try learning to actually read what people say rather than just skim for a few key words and then guess what their post was about; since that's all you've done in this thread so far. That's even further shown since you somehow think I said the -evasion is a big deal; even though I've clearly said exactly the opposite twice now.

Hell, you've yet to actually prove anything yourself. Evanos has done leaps more than you ever have to disprove that Decidence info I mentioned. You're whining about it not being correct, but then don't show how. Now you whine that you've been a ninja for longer(who cares) and that seems to make you think it automatically makes you the god of all things ninja. You might know more than me(not by that much I'd bet), but you're not bothering to prove anything, just saying it's better because you said so.

I at least gave a source for my post and admitted that it's information is likely out of date by this point. You've done nothing.

I listed basic freaking numbers showing that hauby+1 is better for melee. Who the hell prefers 5 attack over 5 acc for meleeing?? If you do, then you must also melee in a freaking Assailants Ring, right? And its no contest that Hauby+1 is better than Af2, the difference is 1 attack vs 3 acc. If you dont go with the 3:1 ratio, then idk what to tell you.

Ninja acc is not great. It will never be up to par to WAR acc without sacrificing way too much to get there. We need all the ACC we can get for meleeing. Sorry for bringing up my experience as a long time Ninja, but guesss what? It DOES make a difference. I've meleeing every concievable mob in this game on ninja, and know what my ACC and DMG is like on them. I dont have any saved parses to show you "data" because it all just backed up pretty common knowledge. Stouter got it right in saying if you dont need the acc (which is fairly rare), then you should be using AF1(+1) body anyway.

I just cant believe you are actually argueing that 5 attack > 5 acc and 1 attack > 3 acc. You honestly believe this?

 

[Bajaratt]

Correction, that IS what you said. What Zoo said is:

I never said to check the other ninjas, period. The closest thing I ever said was that I primarily see ninja's wearing chainmail/togi for melee and not hauby.

Which is a huge difference unless you're an idiot... Regardless, there's a difference between checking just anyone and checking someone who knows what they are doing.

Except that of "every ninja worth a damn" by far most are wearing Togi/Chainmail for melee and Hauby for weapon skills. Those that are wearing Hauby, the vast majority are wearing NQ and are wearing it because they don't have Togi/Chainmail. So unless the only ninja's worth a damn are maybe 2% of the entire server, he's still wrong.

That's some good advice, why don't you use it? Or better yet, just shut up.

That'd make sense, if I wasn't partially leading the discussion, moron. Seriously, if the only thing you're going to do is troll a discussion to try to take a jab at me, just don't post.

 

[Bajaratt]

I listed basic freaking numbers showing that hauby+1 is better for melee. Who the hell prefers 5 attack over 5 acc for meleeing?? If you do, then you must also melee in a freaking Assailants Ring, right? And its no contest that Hauby+1 is better than Af2, the difference is 1 attack vs 3 acc. If you dont go with the 3:1 ratio, then idk what to tell you.

Ninja acc is not great. It will never be up to par to WAR acc without sacrificing way too much to get there. We need all the ACC we can get for meleeing. Sorry for bringing up my experience as a long time Ninja, but guesss what? It DOES make a difference. I've meleeing every concievable mob in this game on ninja, and know what my ACC and DMG is like on them. I dont have any saved parses to show you "data" because it all just backed up pretty common knowledge. Stouter got it right in saying if you dont need the acc (which is fairly rare), then you should be using AF1(+1) body anyway.

If it's common knowledge, the guy wouldn't have needed to ask about it, nor would the vast majority of ninja's not be using a Hauby +1. If it's better, fine, but don't make wild claims based on nothing when there are comparable alternatives around. If you're going to say something like Hauby > jujitsu Gi or something obvious, no one will argue, but you're acting like you're going to see a massive change with a hauby +1 other than the lack of need for a gear swap.

Stop acting like 5 accuracy at 75 is going to make an incredible change in your overall accuracy. Is hauby +1 going to be better than Togi/Chainmail, maybe but that'd take testing that you don't seem inclined to do; and there's no way it's 5-6 million better unless you really hate swapping out your body piece.

I just cant believe you are actually argueing that 5 attack > 5 acc and 1 attack > 3 acc. You honestly believe this?

I can't believe you're dumb enough to not understand the concept of diminishing returns. It's incredibly simple, if you hit enough, improve your per-hit damage; do I need to explain the effects of +magic attack on your nukes too?

 

[evanos]

I said you must suck if you NEED that 5 accuracy, not if you prefer it. At that level of gear it's obviously going to be nothing but a personal opinion. My accuracy is fine for me, so I prefer to hit a little harder rather than an incredibly small increase in overall accuracy. If you have a problem hitting(that's where you suck at 75), 5 accuracy is better, but if you're not having a problem hitting, 5 attack is better; I don't have a problem hitting, therefore the accuracy isn't beneficial. This is basic game mechanics, but you need me to explain it to you?

Well, I can see where some would argue this point, and to be honest I used to think the same way. I used to melee in STR rings and had a fairly even balance of att and acc with some DEX and STR mixed in where I saw fit. However, after some time I changed 2 Snipers Rings to replace Triumph and Raja's (on certian mobs only by the way, I stick with STR on Puks, Certian Trolls, the majority of mobs in Assault, Caedarva (if I ever go there), etc) and saw about a 1.5% increase in accuracy (from 92.05 to 93. 67)with the +10 acc on the two rings. After this my melee damage was roughly the same (reducing about 2% over time on attacks and increasing the amount of attacks by 1%), but my WS/hour rose by about 30 and overall damage by about 4%. While this increase may seem only small to some, tweaking the small things is what helps increase your damage by quite a bit.

After I changed around my STR rings I tried a few other changes on my NIN. Some of the notables is that I got replaced PCC with Hope Torque, Snipers Ring with Divisor Ring, and Bomb Core with Fire Bomblet and changed Koga Chainmail with Hauby +1, at the moment sitting much better damage/hour than with my previous setup and am pretty content. I saw a marginal raise in acc with these changes and much more damage per hour than with my previous setup.

I'm a pretty firm believer in NIN's need for acc+ after playing around with my gear for a bit. I used to think people like Rukenshin were crazy for using Life Belt in their WS, but I've made similar changes in my gear to put me roughly around 94.2 acc. NIN as a melee job not having an acc + JA really need all the acc they can get pull off accuracy anywhere near WAR's or MNK's.

 

[Araelus]

Yep, 437 delay on Amano is a good reason to use the JSE kotes for a 6-hit setup. Kaiten also grants a bonus to Store TP after you WS, so he could get away with the hachiman sune-ate +1's as well, but using the boots forces you to WS in them as well, and there's better options for that slot during WS. (rutter's)

But yeah, I've seen his parses too ; ;

Thanks for the confirm on my speculation - only level 30 right now so I wasn't entirely sure. And yeah, I suppose that explains why he uses Rutters for WS, too. Of course, the rest of (us? uh...) the rest of the population can't really get away with that.

I'm a pretty firm believer in NIN's need for acc+ after playing around with my gear for a bit. I used to think people like Rukenshin were crazy for using Life Belt in their WS, but I've made similar changes in my gear to put me roughly around 94.2 acc. NIN as a melee job not having an acc + JA really need all the acc they can get pull off accuracy anywhere near WAR's or MNK's.

There's a hard cap at 95% accuracy, right? I'm wondering if the talk amongst Ninjas can really be extrapolated to the other Shura jobs due to the change in skill ranking and other equipment availability. But put simply, accuracy is more of a concern for Blade: Jin, and STR for Tachi: etc.? I mean, Samurai don't have an accuracy JA either...

 

[Zoolander]

Stop acting like 5 accuracy at 75 is going to make an incredible change in your overall accuracy. Is hauby +1 going to be better than Togi/Chainmail, maybe but that'd take testing that you don't seem inclined to do; and there's no way it's 5-6 million better unless you really hate swapping out your body piece.


I can't believe you're dumb enough to not understand the concept of diminishing returns. It's incredibly simple, if you hit enough, improve your per-hit damage; do I need to explain the effects of +magic attack on your nukes too?

Who the hell said I've never done any testing? I've been a ninja for a long ass time, you think I never tested different body pieces in the last 2 years? Hauby+1 was the clear cut best for melee DMG from my parses. I guess I should be cool like Deci and make a web site to post my ground breaking findings so that people can misquote it a year later?

Of course I know about diminished returns, you are really reaching out there to insult me. Cut the unneccesary 3rd grade insults like saying I suck or that im dumb and contribute somthing worthwhile.

You talk about hitting enough, and that if you do, you should increase per hit damage. Every other reputable ninja on this thread has stated that if you are "hitting enough" then you should be using AF/(+1) body, which if you have suppa, is somthing like a 7% reduction in delay.

Of course, according to you, we should all be meleeing in Assailant's Ring if our acc is "good enough."

 

[Bajaratt]

Thanks for the confirm on my speculation - only level 30 right now so I wasn't entirely sure. And yeah, I suppose that explains why he uses Rutters for WS, too. Of course, the rest of (us? uh...) the rest of the population can't really get away with that.

Rutter's are actually quite good for weapon skills.

 

[Araelus]

Rutter's are actually quite good for weapon skills.

Wasn't saying they weren't. ; ; Was saying that other than using JSE kote or the Relic WS, Samurai cannot use Rutters and keep the low-hit build is all. ^^;

Garvin (on Ninja) used Rutters for WS and did't blink, since they're very nice for that!

And yeah, I suppose that explains why he uses Rutters for WS, too.

"That" is replacing "Kaiten also grants a bonus to Store TP after you WS"

 

[Olrox]

TP in haub, D body or Relic body (or AF body even), WS in osode or haub. this is only my opinion. btw I don't have katana merits. outside of exp pts, dont wear any of the forementioned gear for tanking/soloing, and yes you can evade stuff end game, I swap out 11 pieces of gear when I'm with my LS, 1 full eva set, and then WS set. All of this is from my personal experience only.

 

[Eormanric]

Well Haub+1's don't exactly fly around everywhere or are easily obtained, i have an nq haub. I melee in af and usually ws in haub or osode, with 8/8katana merits and sushi on, unless it's a high eva mob. I personally find that Osode is a great piece for jin.

HQ haubs are expensive, and not really a viable option for everyone. I have 5 75's with nice gear, it adds up, and i'm not willing to gimp any of them to go to a hq haub from a nq for a minor difference. (Especially when i bearly even get to play nin, or want to because my mnk is better hands down.) I'd be willing to parse against people if they want to see some tests because in situations i believe, (From my own testing) that osode > hq haub. (again, with full merits and sushi)

 

[Blazeoffury]

Well Haub+1's don't exactly fly around everywhere or are easily obtained, i have an nq haub. I melee in af and usually ws in haub or osode, with 8/8katana merits and sushi on, unless it's a high eva mob. I personally find that Osode is a great piece for jin.

HQ haubs are expensive, and not really a viable option for everyone. I have 5 75's with nice gear, it adds up, and i'm not willing to gimp any of them to go to a hq haub from a nq for a minor difference. (Especially when i bearly even get to play nin, or want to because my mnk is better hands down.) I'd be willing to parse against people if they want to see some tests because in situations i believe, (From my own testing) that osode > hq haub. (again, with full merits and sushi)

Already told you, name the time and the place and we'll do it.

 

[evanos]

Well Haub+1's don't exactly fly around everywhere or are easily obtained, i have an nq haub. I melee in af and usually ws in haub or osode, with 8/8katana merits and sushi on, unless it's a high eva mob. I personally find that Osode is a great piece for jin.

HQ haubs are expensive, and not really a viable option for everyone. I have 5 75's with nice gear, it adds up, and i'm not willing to gimp any of them to go to a hq haub from a nq for a minor difference. (Especially when i bearly even get to play nin, or want to because my mnk is better hands down.) I'd be willing to parse against people if they want to see some tests because in situations i believe, (From my own testing) that osode > hq haub. (again, with full merits and sushi)

I'll agree that Osode can do well, but I won't agree ever that Osode does better on Jin that Haub +1.

It can be easy to compare your Jin's vs. other's Jins and say that because you are using Osode and they are using Hauby +1 and you are doing better, that Osode is better, but you have to take everything into account. I think it can be very hard to compare the two w/o actually owning and using both for yourself. Give Hauby +1 a try and you might be suprised ;p

 

[Eormanric]

Already told you, name the time and the place and we'll do it.

Sure, you're a nub anyways.

 

[Eormanric]

I'll agree that Osode can do well, but I won't agree ever that Osode does better on Jin that Haub +1.

It can be easy to compare your Jin's vs. other's Jins and say that because you are using Osode and they are using Hauby +1 and you are doing better, that Osode is better, but you have to take everything into account. I think it can be very hard to compare the two w/o actually owning and using both for yourself. Give Hauby +1 a try and you might be suprised ;p

I used Blazes before. It didn't make me cream, especially considering how much it is.

 

[Legomyeggo]

4STR 4DEX doesn't make up for 12 Accuracy and 12 Attack. Not even with serious ws mods like Blade: Jin's.

 

[Blazeoffury]

I used Blazes before. It didn't make me cream, especially considering how much it is.

You what???? Since when did you use my Hauby for Ninja.. you said it was for warrior.... You fucking douche...



j/k idc really.


On another note, lets get me, you, Evanos, and Zoo out in a merit PT. Have a little fun and see who wins.

 

[Eormanric]

You what???? Since when did you use my Hauby for Ninja.. you said it was for warrior.... You fucking douche...



j/k idc really.


On another note, lets get me, you, Evanos, and Zoo out in a merit PT. Have a little fun and see who wins.

I did use it on war, but you were offline so i tried it out on my nin to see if it was cracked up to be as good as everyone thinks /shrug. Don't get me wrong i didn't say anywhere it's not good, lol. With how much i play nin, and how expensive it is, just not an option for me, osode and nq hauby does just fine.

 

[Sharpe]

You left our server; Quiet you. ; ; I miss my Takezaki.

/sexes Kotsu up. :nyam: