Ninja Methods to Maintain Hate

DarleneFFXI

DarleneFFXI

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Darlene
I leveled Ninja to 40, and I have to say... it was *very* hard to keep hate. I know it would have been better if I had a THF, and I had lots of people using Provoke and such, but I honestly thought it would have been easier.

I would like to know what people who level ninja do to keep hate. I provoked my fuzzy heart out, and I spammed as many ninja magics as I could. But I'm sure I'm missing something.
 
Asides voke, there's the debuffs (Dokumori, Jubaku, etc). As well as the "Elemental Wheel" (which is basically just casting the Ni nukes in the elemental order). Some don't do the wheel though...there's also MBing a nuke, and...that's all I can think off. =/
 
If you need to just keep hate in general there's some Enmity+ gear you can macro for a Provoke macro, etc... it will delay your vokes, but make them way more potent, Use the Enmity Earrings, the Cachnez(sp?) Head piece etc... every little Enmity helps, and I mean helps a lot

Edit: Oh thought she meant she already spammed the Ninjutsu :/ but yea, spam the ele wheel, and Jubaku, Dokumori, Kurayami etc... those grab a lot of hate, even when resisted
 
lol..I try the wheel sometimes...but I tend to run outta room for tools, so I tend to just use 3 or 4. I'd rather have Slow & Paralyze than the elementals (first time I got Jubaku, I went off soloing DC living weapons...wow..that gave me such a power trip to kill those). I still have one more NI spell to farm, but I suppose it should work out better than the Ichi ones i was spamming. I only had one half part at lv40, so I hadn't tried it out very much in party terms.

What Emnity equipment is there for lv40? I'm having a hard time finding decient armor for 40...I think my lists are bad. And can you list what macro you used?
 
What did your gear look like? If it was solid evasion, that's your problem. A THF can't keep hate for the same reason an evasion NIN can't keep hate, no damage. Need a good base of attack to keep hate on NIN, provoke can't do it alone. +1 katanas, Ochi's kote if you can get them, Life or Sword belt depending on the situation, eat meat if you can get your accuracy high enough (snipers rings are good for this). Keep full evasion gear on macro in case you're getting your ass kicked, but in general, if you're not having trouble keeping shadows up, put on more attack gear. Don't forget Berserk, either. Your katanas might not look like much, but with the right gear, they're a lot. Mermaid's Ring, those enmity earrings, wear them full-time if you've got a crazy DD like a pimped out MNK or something in the party. Adapt to your situation.

As for the elemental wheel, you spinning it in the right direction?
Suiton -> Raiton -> Doton -> Huton -> Hyoton -> Katon -> Suiton.

Try to land Jubaku as it comes in to camp, Kurayami/Hojo as you engage, and Dokumori seems to generate a lot of hate, but that might just be me.

*edit*
As for inventory space... Finish your gobbie bags, clear out gear from other jobs, and -make the room- for the stuff you need on NIN.

W-w-waaait a minute, stop the train. You were spamming elemental ichi? No, bad idea, very bad. >.>

*edit 2*
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/advanced.php
Somepage advanced search function. Learn it and love it. There's not much enmity gear available at 40, but there's more coming very soon. Resentment Cape, Mermaid's Ring, and others.
 
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Mai Ikari said:
What did your gear look like? If it was solid evasion, that's your problem. A THF can't keep hate for the same reason an evasion NIN can't keep hate, no damage. Need a good base of attack to keep hate on NIN, provoke can't do it alone. +1 katanas, Ochi's kote if you can get them, Life or Sword belt depending on the situation, eat meat if you can get your accuracy high enough (snipers rings are good for this). Keep full evasion gear on macro in case you're getting your ass kicked, but in general, if you're not having trouble keeping shadows up, put on more attack gear. Don't forget Berserk, either. Your katanas might not look like much, but with the right gear, they're a lot. Mermaid's Ring, those enmity earrings, wear them full-time if you've got a crazy DD like a pimped out MNK or something in the party. Adapt to your situation.

As for the elemental wheel, you spinning it in the right direction?
Suiton -> Raiton -> Doton -> Huton -> Hyoton -> Katon -> Suiton.

Try to land Jubaku as it comes in to camp, Kurayami/Hojo as you engage, and Dokumori seems to generate a lot of hate, but that might just be me.

*edit*
As for inventory space... Finish your gobbie bags, clear out gear from other jobs, and -make the room- for the stuff you need on NIN.

W-w-waaait a minute, stop the train. You were spamming elemental ichi? No, bad idea, very bad. >.>
Click to expand...

QFT

Very good post
 
whooosh... never thought of that. Yes, I was full evasion & accuracy. I tend to use more berserk on Ninja than I did on Paladin simply cause...I expected not to get hit. Not sure I'm high enough for snipers tho... I was using Silver Chainmail and dodge earings. Hmm.. what would you suggest for lv40? I'm more interested in keeping ninja at BCNM level, but who knows.. someone might invite me and I'll take it farther.

EDIT:

LOL...you guys post too fast... ; ;...

Yes, I spammed Ichi elementals cause...I wasn't level 40 yet. You're right...I should make room... I have all the gobbie bags, but I'm a spazmastic kitty...I like to wonder from job to job, but I just figured I'd pick the elemnent the mob I was fighting was weakest to, but for now on I'm gonna use that wheel (I always had my macros list the wheel links, so I've always been setup for it..just..not with the tools).

EDIT:

O.O;; Emnity Earings?!? Does that exist lv 40>?
 
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Okay, lemme think.... This is just the NIN equip I had at 40, it's nothing spectacular, but it held hate like a charm.

Er.... *runs to AH to check names on items*
 
lol.. I wouldn't say I followed any "craze".. just like anything, when I dont know about something I go and ask the people who've done it. It was always hammered into me... 'ninja needs evasion'... Of course, I always test the theory whenever, and that brings me back here... what I'm doing isn't quite working yet, so I'd like to try something new. You can rest assured I'll be trying out everything people have said here...assuming...I can afford it... Nobody's invited me to any BCNM's yet, so nothing outta budget yet...(psst...I have 400+ BS in my mog house, and my moogle is complaining...any takers?)
 
Make room for tools, all of them. At 75, even though they are next to useless, i still from habit carry all of them around. I am usually 55/60, and that is with 3-5 different equips for most slots depending on the application, so it can be done at any level. Leave the crafting stuff in MH or mule, make room for all tools. Make sure to land Kurayami and Hojo, Jubaku if you think you have time. Don't bother with Dokumori. Try casting Kurayami as soon as puller has gotten mob in range, then voke after spell lands. If you lose hate, do the jutsu wheel in the proper order and i can almost guarantee you will get hate back until you are in the 60's when damage will not be so noticible to the mob. In the 40's and 50's the damage is very high for the amount of time it takes to do which gives you alot of hate.

It will become much easier once you get Kurayami Ni at 44 and Hojo Ni at 48, since your casting time will drop alot. Another thought i had was, maybe you dont' have enough acc gear? Alot of hate is generated through melee quickness alone. If you are missing alot then that's lost hate. While alot of ppl say to stock up on +str gear, most of ninja damage comes from speed and crits, so acc and dex would be better. Like Ronith said, enmity is important too, but aside from Mermaid's Ring, i didn't use any til Arhat's at 63-64.

If you have any other questions about nin, ask me in ls, i'll help out in any way i can.
 
Two sets of gear, one from when I was level NIN to 40, and the other from when I came back a few weeks later after returning all borrowed gear. Note that both sets worked fine, both in keeping hate and dodging enough to keep shadows up.

Weapons: Kodachi +1 (Didn't do AF weapon until 48 or so, but AF is great for BCNM 40's)
Head: Emperor's Hairpin / Flax Headband
Neck: Spirit Torque / Spike Necklace
Body: Jujitsu Gi / Royal Squire's Chainmail
Hands: Ochiudo's Kote / Iron Mittens
Waist: Survival Belt / Warrior's Belt +1 because Swordbelt is 43, not 40
Legs: Kingdom Trousers
Feet: Leaping Boots / Savage Gaiters
Back: Nomad's Mantle
Earrings: Dodge Earring swap Beetle Earring +1 for WS
Rings: Accuracy / STR, swap in double STR for WS

WS swaps are important. They're the difference between a mediocre WS, and a WS that gets the mob's attention back on you.

*edit... god I'm doing a lot of that recently*
Oh yea, one last thing: CAP YOUR NINJUTSU SKILL. If it's not capped, SPAM your ninjutsu until it is. Capped ninjutsu makes your elemental ni spells actually do damage, and it lets you take a hit or two that slips in while recasting utsusemi ichi.
 
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I had almost the same gear equips as Mai's first column with the exception that i used AF katana, Royal squire breeches, and Fuma Kyahan (highly recommended). O Kote are worth it, and now unlike when i was levelling, you can get Horomusha Kote instead, and not have to worry about the negative evasion which isn't that noticible anyway.
 
Hehe..well.. all in all, I'm not sure how far I will take Ninja, but I always like to try and do the best I can whenever I use any job, and I'm sure I'll be using Ninja again for BCNM & CoP. I just need Suiton, and I'll be covered on jutsu, but I was always using Dodge Earings and my 2 Shakree Rings. I was using Jack-o-lanters for the +10 ACC/EVA bonus...and...I just really love Intimidating Living Weapons (I'm waiting for "Tarutaru Killer" food & I'll be chasing taru all over Jueno to see how many times I can intimidate them), but I'm reconsidering that now. Maybe replacing a ring with a STR or DEX ring and using an Attack neck. I was using a Dash Sash & Cez Nez for the Emnity, and a Nobads mantel.
 
Nonononono, nooooo Jack-o-Lanterns. Very bad. I swear the things weaken voke, which might be a part of your problem.

Navarin is the best food available if you want an Evasion boost. Dorado Sushi for enmity (which you shouldn't need once you fix your gear). And the mighty Dhalmel Steak if you want Attack. Upgrade to Mithkabobs once your base attack gets above 200.

Shikaree, in my openion, are a complete waste of an inventory slot. Venerer is decent, and of course Snipers are the best. Personally, I went Venerer / Puissance Ring. +3 acc/str, works out nicely.
 
Well... I suppose I should say most of my problem has been "How do I keep hate when everyone is provoking & nuking" Obviously.. the best solution is.. "fix the party" but thats really hard (um..for me..) to do in a pickup party. And I've known many ninjas (Soujiro's one of them) that keep hate inspite of people trying to take hate away, and I'm hoping to learn some of these tricks. I was able to improve hate on one party by doing the pulling since I could stack 2 or 3 vokes before I got to camp.

However, I think compared to other foods, Its really starting to make sense. Sushi and Narvin have other combat mods that would be very important to have and could have taken more over the top (lol..I did always love the miss-fest the mobs got when I used them tho). I never thought about doing equipment switch yet either...only my 3rd DD job to get to 40.. lol.. I should get used to it.

I'm gonna look into buying these gears, and I'll be doing that Venerer ring quest since...I can't afford Snipers yet... ; ;... lol...I can't afford most of this, but the parts I can I definatly will.

Not sure if I'm ready to completly give up on pumpkins tho.. a girl's gotta intimidate *somthing* every once in a while... ; ;...

(I never realized Sniper rings were made from Archers Rings... anyone ever try to synth a Sniper ring from a Shakree Ring?)
 
Hi there!

My Nin's resting comfortably at 37 atm, but I noticed one hate tool in a Nin's arsenal that has yet to see any discussion here.

Nin's throwing skill is of the chain o.0

While lfp or when I was winding down for the night, I'd grab a few stacks of darts and a boomerang and skill up on any even matches and toughs I could find. I know that throwing can get pricey, but even through the mid-thirties the level 18 Shuriken(don't think I ever used the next higher-level ones) were still hitting for enough damage to merit their use.

Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps a bit :)
 
If there are idiots provoking, just tell them "Hey, I'm trying to tank here, do you mind?" If they don't stop, well, let them tank a bit, or a lot, depending on how stupid they are. Not your fault they're desparate to lose HP. As for overnuking BLMs... They'll get what's coming to them. A BLM's job is to -not- pull hate off the tank while doing damage, and then end the battle with something big and flashy to save time. If you try to voke it off them, and it doesn't come off, take the time to recast Utsusemi, because they obviously want the hate pretty badly.

There's something to remember about FFXI, it's addicting. Not just the entire game, but certain aspects of it. Like the 95% hit rate a sushiholic gets, or the big-number syndrome of a meat-munching DRK, or the enemy's whiff-fest that a pure evasion NIN gets. But, like all other addictions, the sub-addictions are bad, they prevent you from seeing the big picture of your performance.

I know my NIN kept hate like a rock, simply from concentrating on katana damage, and using the occasional 3-shot elemental combo to keep hate where it belonged. I didn't have the wallet to spin the wheel the whole party, and usually I'd end up losing shadow count while doing it. <.<

If you want to use the elemental wheel just for hate, and not as your primary attack, spin the wheel until hate is on you, then fire off one or two more shots to keep it there. It's kinder on the wallet, and almost as effective.
 
lol.. yeah.. I shoulda told them...but.. lately...I'm... almost giddy to get a party...and I get so shy sometimes... And whats worse...I know I was guilty of the same thing. Ack.. this is one of the best things about playing other jobs... my perspective changed and I completly understand soo much more. I just think of all the time I got chewed out leveling blm...and how often I ignored people when I shoulda listened. But after leveling War, Nin, Pld, Drk...I understand things soo much better.

I belive I understand what I should change now... I'm going to make a change on food and equipment I can afford, and rely on ninja-nuking (anyone ever heard of the "level-up" version of "provoking"?) -- my ninitsu is capped...er...it was...capped, I think it isn't anymore since I got to 40... anyway. But.. /cringe... my...throwing skill is 11... so... thats the only reason I haven't used it. I neglected it over Archery & Marksmanship (both nearing 150)...

Thanks again everyone.
 
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