Ninja's that suck, getting sick of em

[alanon]

Maybe WAR18 isnt too far off, I have it to level 5 so far.

I do understand not wanting to party with war, especially the dunes! bleh! What you can do with it however is just take it up into ghelba and consider it light "farming". You'll get all kinds of fire crystals and beastmen seals.

Heh. Thanks for the inadvertant tip meant for someone else. I have to level WAR for when I get NIN, too.

Hey NP! Waaaaaaay back when I leveled Thf for farming, I basically solo'd exclusively in ghelsba from 1-15. I got a tremendous amount of fire crystals, which at today's prices would been a really good chunk o change.

 

[anesly]

Ya I know~^^ It just I'm a girl and theres not pretty stuff or glamour with WAR, its just beat the baddie with a stick or something or poke its eye out with provoke.

You must joking. "I'm just a girl so I can't be bothered unless it's pretty!" You could learn a thing or two from some of the other female players on this server. :roll:

 

[Veresko]

Hummm... sorry I did not red all the post, so hope I am not repeating anyone's comment. NIN tank with a drk in party = drk playing at 50-75% of it's capacity.

Agreed, there is probably very good ninja tanks out there, but so far, I seem to have run only in poor ones, that used utsusemi exclusively. As I drk, I ended up stealing aggro all the time. Then I get the whm or party leader telling me to slow down... even if the only thing I did was berserk and 3 absorb-spells.. (str, vit and agi). If you plan on being a nin, please do it properly.

I also agree with silverbats. No way at 40 you can make 300 dmg on a regular hit (not sc or critical) without all the buffs, spells and food. That is unless you were still fighting worker crawlers... then maybe, but still.

One more thing, souleater??? Now that's a big nono! It rocks, but that is just a mp pit for the whm. Plus even with a pld, you get aggro instantly, no matter the amount of hate that was built. I personnally use it only when it's a pld tanking (again, no nin....) so he can cover me and only when the mob is close to dying. That way I can rest without the whm spending all his mp curing me during the fight.

Again, I am 100% sure there are amazing ninja out there (and yes, there are pld that sucks to, like every job), but it will still restrict the job of a drk. Drk will dish out good damage, not just as many as one would wish!

PS: Acid bolts, your best friend after absorb-agi and vit.....

 

[Firestreak]

I'm sorry to say NIN/SAM is the sucks. Why would you spend so much gil on ninja if you aren't even going to play it correctly?

Leaping boots and Hairpin alone are worth over a million gil. If you are truly spamming ninjutsu you could be spending over 50k per xp pt. I know this for a fact cause I did, and I did it with WAR sub and tanked just fine.
All this being said, you really do need to suck it up and level such a stable subjub like WAR to 37. I mean come on it should only take you a week or two to casually level WAR to 37. Far more time than you'll be spending farming and getting gil for all that expensive stuff you're wasting by being a crappy-ass nin.

By the way I completely hate your attitude that since RNG is your main job, you don't particulary care about Ninja. I mean christ lower levels are hard enough without higher ranks in there with that attitude leeching exp cause they don't give a damn. You should come back to every new job you play and treat it as your main job. That expensive low level gear isn't there for the fresh newbies but higher level players who want to cut the shit and get some real xp.

Your first task, you should level war to 10, join a dunes party or try static dunes PT with friends / LS members. Once you're 18 you're in the clear. Suddenly you'll have the stable subjob of all DDs and tanks leveled past dunes, allowing them to be 37 capped. Just to 18 should take you TWO DAYS if you're unlucky. Now two days worth to ojustify MILLIONS of gil in gear is just smart.


As for the main topic, of crappy ninjas. I would argue that for the most part I have seen some very competant ninjas lately. Truthfullly it's incompetant WHMs that have been pissing me off. Not casting stona, silena poisona on the ninja fast enough. No erase to take away slow. Not hasting. Blink tanking isn't an easy job by any means, even with the best gear and deep wallets. How I played it post 37 was pretty simple.

Ni at start. Ni after second shadow gone. Ichi after 5th shadow gone, cancel ni at around 40% casting of ichi. 2 hits into Ihci cast ni again. Well at that point Ichi again if your timer is up, but it might not be, specially without haste. So even if you play ninja perfectly with the best gear and food your shadows might just run out because it's impossible to keep them up forever. As for hate it should be a challenge pre 40 really. I spammed all the elemental randomly as fast as I could and some of the needed debuffs but if people are just stupid hate is still lost. For an example see my Konartist post. The point being, sheesh at least nins are out there spending this gil making themself decent. 90% of the time it's all the other cheapass people playing other jobs that screw my day up.

 

[alanon]

I also agree with silverbats. No way at 40 you can make 300 dmg on a regular hit (not sc or critical) without all the buffs, spells and food. That is unless you were still fighting worker crawlers... then maybe, but still.

CN? bleh. Sorry though I misread. 300 is on the WS/SC. Normal is around 150.

 

[jender]

Ya I know~^^ It just I'm a girl and theres not pretty stuff or glamour with WAR, its just beat the baddie with a stick or something or poke its eye out with provoke.

You must joking. "I'm just a girl so I can't be bothered unless it's pretty!" You could learn a thing or two from some of the other female players on this server. :roll:

Wow...no kidding...was that post for real?

 

[Jagster]

Oh the 250 and 400 are WS numbers at 38-40.

They're averaging about 100+ a hit, 250 slice(+ distortion), and 350-400 double thurst. We did the mandy BCNM 40 and I saw some 500 double thurst without bard buffs.

Drg haters can kiss my ass. We got under 3 minutes( 16 something) from the record too, with rdm,blm,drk,drg DDs

On the topic of ninjas, I don't know if they can do it without me(a thief) since I'm always there. But I can say one thing, I've never seen people hold back with me on standard xp fights, so thief definitely makes the practice alot safer. And it allows every to go all out from SATA to finish so people stop dicking around holding back all day as shown by Alanon's post "enfeeble enfeeble enfeeble, nuke a 2nd tier spell...steal hate"

Off topic but ninja lead to mention of thieves and to mention of plds. Plds expand less mp with thief, think about it. The only people I've seen hold back are the plds, so the other DD can turn the mob when needed.

Now, we can we please stop talking about how a ninja is gimp if they need a thief, as a job not meant to tank in the first place. Or I'll find and make big list of thief benefits and bore all the drk thief wanna be players.

 

[Kea]

Ya I know~^^ It just I'm a girl and theres not pretty stuff or glamour with WAR, its just beat the baddie with a stick or something or poke its eye out with provoke.

You must joking. "I'm just a girl so I can't be bothered unless it's pretty!" You could learn a thing or two from some of the other female players on this server. :roll:

Ha! You're probably right there! I don't know, I just get motivated. But I will eventually level it up and stop being silly.

 

[Kea]

Wow, where to start. :twisted:

You may say that I am a poor ninja because I cannot hold hate. Its true, I can't. Simply because of the fact that I never have WAR subbed for Provoke. I never levelled WAR - levelling it was too boring for me and I lost interest.

Yeah, you sound like a crappy NIN. What do you do when you play NIN? Are you trying to tank like this? You can spam ninjutsu all you want, but at 29 the elem. debuffs are don't do much--Hojo, Kurayami, and Dokumori are more useful, but they will not hold hate on their own. If you're lucky and play with a THF that's 30+, you can leech off their SATA--and I wouldn't normally call it leeching, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort of your own. What have you been doing from 12-29?

Are you trying to play NIN as big DD? At 29? With first-tier ninjutsu? The first few katana WS which don't do much for damage.

That said, I got NIN, SAM and RNG levelled up without using WAR. Its a tough life but I manage.

Tough life mostly for the poor people who get to party with you, sounds like.

When I level NIN, I sub SAM. On rare occasion I get the question, "Why SAM?" or "Do you have WAR? We need you to tank". Its a shame I know, but I do invest in the Ninjitsu spells. I have all of them and I use the spells to great effect. Apparently, having SAM subbed isnt all that bad according to some professional players. It just isn't preferable thats all.

Well, why do you sub SAM? What advantages does it give you at this level?

I don't know if I would be categorised as one of the crappy Ninjas or not but I have my reasons. I am always geared up to scratch though.

No amount of good gear is going to make you more useful to a party playing like this. Yeah, a crappy player with good gear is better than a crappy player with crappy gear, but that's hardly the standard to go by.

Perhaps someone could give me tips on how I could level my NIN job better and don't say, "Level up WAR dammit!". I only focus on one job and that is RNG. I have no interest to be anything else. I find levelling every job is tedious and expensive and overly time consuming. Plus, will never get to highlevel in good time.

What job did you take to 30 to unlock these jobs with?

Suck it up. Yeah, it's your money and you're entitled to play however you want. But like it or not, the group aspect is an important part of the game, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my time and money in a party with someone who's doing fuck all but leeching XP. I'm sure you'll get invites--there are plenty of incompetent players who get pretty high because people are desperate or clueless.

I have no idea how good you are as RNG, but the fact that you can't be bothered to spend a couple of days leveling WAR to 18 so you're not useless to your parties as NIN doesn't give me any incentive to give you a try.

Well first off that was a great read. It has honestly put me straight. When I play NIN using Ninjitsu, Im not trying to tank like this - its impossible for me to. I am debuffing the mob mostly.

I think I have been too excited to be a high level ranger and ignored everything else. Its bad I know but everyones comments here had made me realise my bad mistakes.

To be honest, I really didn't realise how weak and leechy I was until replies were posted here from my post. I have realised the importance of WAR now and see it in a totally different light to what I did before. I thank you guys for this. Its a slap in the face for me but I think I needed it. I have been very naughty doing what I have been doing. Tonight, I will be levelling up WAR. Its time I pulled my act together in that respect.

I unlocked pretty much everything as a Red Mage.

You live and learn I guess. Nobody is perfect.

 

[Marael]

Hummm... sorry I did not red all the post, so hope I am not repeating anyone's comment. NIN tank with a drk in party = drk playing at 50-75% of it's capacity.

you see, that is exactly what I'm talking about right there.

 

[Sneakypants]

Know your tank. I think that is what is important here. Others have mentioned that the nuking should be paced differently with NIN, than PLD.
This is exactly right.

I was NIN in a party where the RNG would barrage pull and use berserk and WS constantly. Needless to say that presented a challenge and a problem. The NIN in this case, could do a much better job if the RNG had slowed down, even a bit, I'd be able to hold hate...Which is ideal. EVERYONE knows a BLM or RNG can easily steal hate away from the tank if they want to. That's just not the best idea... :?

A sucky NIN is a sucky NIN, but before you say there are SO damned many of them, make sure there's no other factors that could contribute to the lack of holding hate. NIN tank is definitely not always ideal, but sometimes it is even more ideal than PLD. Depends on the scenario.

 

[Chouzan]

Kea:

I stopped reading most of the previous posts, so I'm sorry if this has already been suggested.

But, nin/rng is a perfectly acceptable damage dealer if you are willing to spend the gil. Load up on some ranged acc, make sure your throwing skill is capped and spam shurikens. Best damage to delay ratio in the game.

 

[Kea]

Kea:

I stopped reading most of the previous posts, so I'm sorry if this has already been suggested.

But, nin/rng is a perfectly acceptable damage dealer if you are willing to spend the gil. Load up on some ranged acc, make sure your throwing skill is capped and spam shurikens. Best damage to delay ratio in the game.

Thanks hunnie for the tip but I wouldn't learn my lesson if I didn't level up WAR asap. It has so many befefits for later on. I have just been to ignorant to level it.^^

 

[alanon]

Wow, where to start. :twisted:

You may say that I am a poor ninja because I cannot hold hate. Its true, I can't. Simply because of the fact that I never have WAR subbed for Provoke. I never levelled WAR - levelling it was too boring for me and I lost interest.

Yeah, you sound like a crappy NIN. What do you do when you play NIN? Are you trying to tank like this? You can spam ninjutsu all you want, but at 29 the elem. debuffs are don't do much--Hojo, Kurayami, and Dokumori are more useful, but they will not hold hate on their own. If you're lucky and play with a THF that's 30+, you can leech off their SATA--and I wouldn't normally call it leeching, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort of your own. What have you been doing from 12-29?

Are you trying to play NIN as big DD? At 29? With first-tier ninjutsu? The first few katana WS which don't do much for damage.

That said, I got NIN, SAM and RNG levelled up without using WAR. Its a tough life but I manage.

Tough life mostly for the poor people who get to party with you, sounds like.

When I level NIN, I sub SAM. On rare occasion I get the question, "Why SAM?" or "Do you have WAR? We need you to tank". Its a shame I know, but I do invest in the Ninjitsu spells. I have all of them and I use the spells to great effect. Apparently, having SAM subbed isnt all that bad according to some professional players. It just isn't preferable thats all.

Well, why do you sub SAM? What advantages does it give you at this level?

I don't know if I would be categorised as one of the crappy Ninjas or not but I have my reasons. I am always geared up to scratch though.

No amount of good gear is going to make you more useful to a party playing like this. Yeah, a crappy player with good gear is better than a crappy player with crappy gear, but that's hardly the standard to go by.

Perhaps someone could give me tips on how I could level my NIN job better and don't say, "Level up WAR dammit!". I only focus on one job and that is RNG. I have no interest to be anything else. I find levelling every job is tedious and expensive and overly time consuming. Plus, will never get to highlevel in good time.

What job did you take to 30 to unlock these jobs with?

Suck it up. Yeah, it's your money and you're entitled to play however you want. But like it or not, the group aspect is an important part of the game, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my time and money in a party with someone who's doing fuck all but leeching XP. I'm sure you'll get invites--there are plenty of incompetent players who get pretty high because people are desperate or clueless.

I have no idea how good you are as RNG, but the fact that you can't be bothered to spend a couple of days leveling WAR to 18 so you're not useless to your parties as NIN doesn't give me any incentive to give you a try.

Well first off that was a great read. It has honestly put me straight. When I play NIN using Ninjitsu, Im not trying to tank like this - its impossible for me to. I am debuffing the mob mostly.

I think I have been too excited to be a high level ranger and ignored everything else. Its bad I know but everyones comments here had made me realise my bad mistakes.

To be honest, I really didn't realise how weak and leechy I was until replies were posted here from my post. I have realised the importance of WAR now and see it in a totally different light to what I did before. I thank you guys for this. Its a slap in the face for me but I think I needed it. I have been very naughty doing what I have been doing. Tonight, I will be levelling up WAR. Its time I pulled my act together in that respect.

I unlocked pretty much everything as a Red Mage.

You live and learn I guess. Nobody is perfect.

Wow, just /clap.

Very nice! If everyone in the world of Vana'diel could learn from others like you, the flameboard would be a ghost town.

 

[vang]

I beast the fuck out as a tank, come watch. If your spamming your wheel and not getting hit there should be not too many problems with holding hate. Then again I go all out and buy only the finest (only name on AH history to buy an Eris earring +1 woot!) to ensure that my party has a good time. Its just like I said with Rangers, Poor Ninjas=Bad ninjas.

People need to get over the whole Skill > Gear as an excuse for people to be lazy. Buy the gear or farm the gear that is needed for god sake.

Like Tiya said there are 2 ninjas that come to mind that hold it like no other, luckily I have been able to party a bit with both and copy their style.

Im currently 51 and every time I level within 3 fights I have my ninjitsu capped, partied with one my level over the weekend who had his magic at 81.....These Ninjas make Vang sad

No matter what job I pursue there really are gimps in each job making me sick. I now see the light that it isn't only trendy Rangers ruining the job, but now Ninjas too...

Over the weekend, I had 2 BLM in my party and granted a few times the mob would turn we ended up with 11k xp in 2 hours. Not too many paladin led parties can crank that out consistently.

I think as long as everyone in the party respects that Ninjas aren't Paladins and takes the more conservative path you will come out on top each time, with more xp than a Paladin led party. I love Pallys but I will take a well played Ninja any day over a Pally group.

 

[decidence]

I see way too many NIN's that think they can tank without using their Ninjistu (aside from Utsusemi) and they all fail miserably.

 

[Direwolf]

As aWHM I know your pain. So many substandard WHMs out there.

 

[anesly]

Well first off that was a great read. It has honestly put me straight. When I play NIN using Ninjitsu, Im not trying to tank like this - its impossible for me to. I am debuffing the mob mostly.

I think I have been too excited to be a high level ranger and ignored everything else. Its bad I know but everyones comments here had made me realise my bad mistakes.

To be honest, I really didn't realise how weak and leechy I was until replies were posted here from my post. I have realised the importance of WAR now and see it in a totally different light to what I did before. I thank you guys for this. Its a slap in the face for me but I think I needed it. I have been very naughty doing what I have been doing. Tonight, I will be levelling up WAR. Its time I pulled my act together in that respect.

Well phhbbt, well to deflate my stabbiness. > >

 

[TiyaKelth]

Yeah, a few people on here have posted saying that with nin tanks the DD's have to perform at 50-75% efficiency... That's exactly what I was getting at with my first post. These people haven't played with a real nin that plays their job to the full potential. Anyone that's ever pt'd with Mistasia or Ardenbruk know what I'm talking about. Mist's been travelling the world for the last few months though (She went to Hong Kong for a few weeks, but I couldn't convince her to go to IGE's headquarters there and knock some sense into em ), she'll be back mid Feb, if you're in her level range at that time (Level 50), make sure to look her up for a pt. You'll be very impressed.

Ardenbruk's currently at level 60, taking a break from leveling to farm for the best gear, and enough cash to fund spamming ninjitsu and manji shurikens nonstop throughout pt's. That's how you play nin to its full potential.

 

[Legomyeggo]

Well like it's been stated, you gotta start off slow with a Ninja tank if you're melee. Usually once the mob is at 75% or 50% HP I bring that bitch home. In Onzozo, Dar (Awesome Ninja) was tanking for me. Did an awesome job. Only lost hate on my 800+ Sidewinders and my 5 Arrow Barrage. Devi was the Thief, she helped too . Although there was that one Sidewinder that hit for 1100 or so, I seriously don't think a Paladin would've kept hate on that shit either.