No Peddlin', Politickin', or Preachin'

[Excim]

Maybe it's because I don't try hard enough, but I really don't know what or who to believe anymore. The media will try to spin every newscast into something that will please it's board members and sponsors, all the while lining their pockets with cash from ratings. People are constantly trying to scam you out of money you work damn hard to earn, or have you buy shit you don't need/doesn't work on every street corner, and even religious leaders (ESPECIALLY down here in Baptist country) keep building bigger and more extravagant "places of worship", and seem to be accelerating faster to celebrity status more than ever. It seems to me, that the more you look around at what is going on, the more you realize how sick this country has become with it's obsession of money. I do not believe there is anyone out there anywhere that is looking out for the common good of the citizenry, and it's a frightening revalation to be had.


So, to the people out there who put thier head down and work hard everyday, then go home and deal with this bullshit, how do you find the truth? It seems to me, that there is no service left in this country that benefits the masses, only the illusion of it. Am I wrong?

Please discuss.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

I understand what you mean.

Politically, I look for what I think would be most supportive for OUR country. Whoever has the best looking record that could help our country, thats who I will vote for. Thing is, the good dudes always lose because they arent as glamorous as the nasty sweet-talkers.

Religiously, you should believe what you want. Ive noticed that Atheists try much harder than bible thumpers to change their beliefs. I could say "I believe in God" and I could be swarmed by atheists in an instant ridiculing my beliefs. Its sickening. But either way, you choose. I will not tell you what to believe, only that I personally do. Religion does have its perks.

To sum it up, not only the good ol' US of A is dropping like its hot, the entire world is basically falling into a rut. There isnt anything that can be done, theres no way to sway 6 billion + people to make the world better. Just care for yourself and your loved ones as a priority and try to change the world secondarily. Trying to make a difference doesnt help at all if youre miserable.

I rambled a lot, maybe anyone that read can pick something useful out of it idk, Im sleepy

 

[Halifirien]

Ive noticed that Atheists try much harder than bible thumpers to change their beliefs. I could say "I believe in God" and I could be swarmed by atheists in an instant ridiculing my beliefs. Its sickening.

Heh. I've had the opposite experience. If I say I don't believe in God, I get swarmed by Christians concerned for my immortal soul and asking how I can refuse to believe what they consider so self-evident it hardly bears consideration. Then they launch into questions about morality and how atheists can be "good" when we don't worry about eternal punishment.

Most atheists have no interest in changing believer's minds about anything, although they do tend to argue when Christians start imposing.

 

[Daveman]

You'd be surprised how many atheists (or agnostics leaning on a more atheist viewpoint) there are, they just don't usually talk about it too much. I never talk about the fact I'm atheist unless asked what I believe in, (except with friends and a good opportunity for a joke). I even go to church for family reasons (including major church-days like good Friday, easter, ash wed, palm Sunday, etc...) and my parents know my beliefs so it's not like I'm just "playing along".

When appropriate I'll go as far as pretend I believe in something to avoid conflicts (my family isn't exactly the world's most open on these issues, had enough arguments with my parents alone...) It's not like it's against my religion to lie about what I believe in

It's just that the loud atheists are the most visible, just like the loud Christians that want evolution to stop being taught in schools are the most visible.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Heh. I've had the opposite experience. If I say I don't believe in God, I get swarmed by Christians concerned for my immortal soul and asking how I can refuse to believe what they consider so self-evident it hardly bears consideration. Then they launch into questions about morality and how atheists can be "good" when we don't worry about eternal punishment.

Most atheists have no interest in changing believer's minds about anything, although they do tend to argue when Christians start imposing.

yeah, I have seen christians, swarm atheists before, but I havent witnissed it nearly as much as the latter, and I live in christian country, lol. Well, at least I think so.

Anyway, sorry about that. Its never fun to have any sort of belief forced upon you, and I just wonder why people think that forcing others will get them to change their mind. If people are concerned or worried, theyll change, if they arent, they wont. No big deal, the way I see it.

 

[Elemmire]

so wait when I say our society has and still is going to Hell I get bothered but when someone else does? Ah well

I agree, there are serious things wrong with not only this country but the world. Too much corruption. Too much greed. If you have ever spent a good time in America and then spent a good amount of time in a smaller European country in one of the smaller towns (some of the large cities even) and you see a huge difference in mindset. Ireland for example as my teacher told me (I haven't been there but I've seen such different mindset when I was in the smaller towns of Italy, in Britain, in Germany) how his wife and he were taking a trip and they broke down. They called for help, the repair guy came, helped them right away, barely charged them much and invited them to a drink and whatnot. Got to make great friends with people around and it was just a more communal environment.

It's simple though.. we have a different mindset in this country. We have always been about the "I" and far more caring about our own selves where other countries (not all of course) are more in the "we" mentality. Example being in a factory, if something goes wrong our mentality has that we start pointing fingers, blaming one person or a group of others to save ourselves. A problem goes wrong in, an example, a Japanese company they tend to all take responsibility. Hell, one of the reasons when we do business with Japan and it takes awhile to get approval for deals is that they tend to let EVERYONE in the company have a say on it. Granted, we have our ups as our downs as they have their ups and downs. But I dunno.. *shrugs*

I guess I got somewhat off topic but ya.. if you can't trust politicians, news, or such.. than trust only yourself and work from there

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Honestly, it wouldnt be so bad if our country, (USA) cared about itself without involving other countries... lol.

We have our own problems, here, but we spend a LOT of our money trying to fix problems in other places around the world... Not saying it isnt needed, but there IS a limit, and there ARE other priorities

 

[Stine]

I tend to agree. People seem to worry too much about money and labeling other people that we don't get much done for the good of the community. Granted there are people out there who do help other people but the news hardly ever wants to talk about them unless they have a ton of money that can be used to sponsor the news organization. It's a shame that the people who may be running for president that actually would do a good job won't get the news coverage to expose their name to everyone because they don't have the money for it. It would be nice to see a news organization with no religious or political bias that posted more positive news and promote good behavior in the people. Not something that is likely to happen though.

 

[Ryuoho]

The "Fuck 'Em" approach has always worked for me. If that's the way some people are, that's their problem, not mine. Having every confidence in knowing what truly matters, and what doesn't, helps too.

 

[Excim]

The "Fuck 'Em" approach has always worked for me. If that's the way some people are, that's their problem, not mine. Having every confidence in knowing what truly matters, and what doesn't, helps too.

More or less, I wish this was the USAs international policy. If a specific country *asks* for our help, then we should do what we can. But otherwise, why do we, as a country, continue to stick our nose into places our nose isn't wanted? I mean, I see the obvious monetary gains to be made from the people at the top, but it is also OBVIOUSLY cutting the knees out from everyone else! It makes me furious!

As far as sales pitches go, I saw a commercial for some weight loss product late one night recently, and I made me so disgusted with what some people think they can get away with. First of all, in teeny tiny print on the bottom of the screen, it stated that the FDA had not yet tested the drug, that outcomes vary, and some serious and dangerous side effects were possible. Also said, that the product only worked in combination with proper diet and excercise... ... ... ...right. I can only assume, that since the company who was selling the product felt strongly enough about selling it that they bough TV time, that some poor fat ass out there actually picked up the damn phone! It sickens me how people will prey on the weak just to pocket a quick buck!


I'm not even going to get into the whole religion thing right now though.

Oh, and Elemmire, sometimes you can be a real pain, but you're right, people do need to cut you a bit more slack.

 

[Ryuoho]

You're better off not worrying about all that menial shit. You'll live longer this way

 

[Valandil]

I read a lot of ancient and classical literature and realize that everything you said in the first post has been a problem for the last 5000 years. You really only have three choices in the matter. You can dwell on it and you can let it bother you, you can become apathetic, or you can do whatever you can to try and have a positive impact on the world around.

 

[Excim]

I read a lot of ancient and classical literature and realize that everything you said in the first post has been a problem for the last 5000 years.

Best post I've seen on the topic. Albeit depressing, it certainly does put the subject into perspective, I mean if people have been able to forge ahead for this long having to wade through the bullshit, who's to say we won't for another 1,000 or so, right?


Maybe it's just the city, but it seems like things are hugely different from even when I grew up in the 80's and 90's. Seems like if someone you don't know wants to talk to you, it's either because they want to rob you or sell you something you don't need/want.

 

[Morcheeba]

If you have ever spent a good time in America and then spent a good amount of time in a smaller European country in one of the smaller towns (some of the large cities even) and you see a huge difference in mindset. Ireland for example as my teacher told me (I haven't been there but I've seen such different mindset when I was in the smaller towns of Italy, in Britain, in Germany) how his wife and he were taking a trip and they broke down. They called for help, the repair guy came, helped them right away, barely charged them much and invited them to a drink and whatnot. Got to make great friends with people around and it was just a more communal environment.

That sounds like almost every downeast town/city here in Canada, my experiences exactly driving from Ontario to Cape Bretton. On Newfoundland itself if a driver infront of you on a one/two lane road was going a bit slower than you, they'd always pull over to let you pass (most of these roads were situated against high cliffs overlooking the ocean). To sum up... I believe it's a small community and small town mentality thing more than a geographical thing

 

[Ryuoho]

I read a lot of ancient and classical literature and realize that everything you said in the first post has been a problem for the last 5000 years. You really only have three choices in the matter. You can dwell on it and you can let it bother you, you can become apathetic, or you can do whatever you can to try and have a positive impact on the world around.

Exactly, it's the same thing every gereration goes through. "Why are we so much more fucked up than our parents?" That's never true, it's just different.

Earths not gonna stop turning any time soon, I promise.

 

[Valandil]

so wait when I say our society has and still is going to Hell I get bothered but when someone else does? Ah well

I agree, there are serious things wrong with not only this country but the world. Too much corruption. Too much greed. If you have ever spent a good time in America and then spent a good amount of time in a smaller European country in one of the smaller towns (some of the large cities even) and you see a huge difference in mindset. Ireland for example as my teacher told me (I haven't been there but I've seen such different mindset when I was in the smaller towns of Italy, in Britain, in Germany) how his wife and he were taking a trip and they broke down. They called for help, the repair guy came, helped them right away, barely charged them much and invited them to a drink and whatnot. Got to make great friends with people around and it was just a more communal environment.

It's simple though.. we have a different mindset in this country. We have always been about the "I" and far more caring about our own selves where other countries (not all of course) are more in the "we" mentality. Example being in a factory, if something goes wrong our mentality has that we start pointing fingers, blaming one person or a group of others to save ourselves. A problem goes wrong in, an example, a Japanese company they tend to all take responsibility. Hell, one of the reasons when we do business with Japan and it takes awhile to get approval for deals is that they tend to let EVERYONE in the company have a say on it. Granted, we have our ups as our downs as they have their ups and downs. But I dunno.. *shrugs*

I guess I got somewhat off topic but ya.. if you can't trust politicians, news, or such.. than trust only yourself and work from there

Obviously you've never lived in rural America because the exact same things go on in small towns all across this country. It has nothing to do with the continent you're on and everything do with the more familial settings and interactions of a small town versus a cosmopolitan/metropolitan area. I can speak from experience having spent the first 18 years of my life in towns with populations less than 3000 and living the last 10 in a major metropolitan area of more than a million people.

 

[Excim]

So with the exception of turning a blind eye to things, how do you cut through the bullshit and find the truth? What venues are available for the normal person to find out what politicians really say without some slant or spin put on it? How do you find contextual truth in a world where everyone wants you to believe they are the ones you should buy from?

 

[Valandil]

So with the exception of turning a blind eye to things, how do you cut through the bullshit and find the truth? What venues are available for the normal person to find out what politicians really say without some slant or spin put on it? How do you find contextual truth in a world where everyone wants you to believe they are the ones you should buy from?

"Gnothi Seauton" Greek phrase that means "know thyself" As much as Elemmire and I disagree on a number of topics, we do agree on one thing, read...a lot. Knowledge + self reflection = application and wisdom.

 

[Morcheeba]

Obviously you've never lived in rural America because the exact same things go on in small towns all across this country. It has nothing to do with the continent you're on and everything do with the more familial settings and interactions of a small town versus a cosmopolitan/metropolitan area. I can speak from experience having spent the first 18 years of my life in towns with populations less than 3000 and living the last 10 in a major metropolitan area of more than a million people.

Didn't I pretty much say that down there *points down four posts*

lol

 

[Kyr]

"Gnothi Seauton" Greek phrase that means "know thyself" As much as Elemmire and I disagree on a number of topics, we do agree on one thing, read...a lot. Knowledge + self reflection = application and wisdom.

Additionally, there is always learning from your elders.

Yes, I know some people roll their eyes at hearing that, not everyone older than you is necessarily wiser. However, there is some knowledge to be gained from this. If you can find someone who has been around, and experienced the world first-hand in areas that you have not, it can be a real eye-openner and if they're willing, they can really teach you a lot about these sorts of things.

An example being myself, I play on a hockey team where the average age of the players is upper thirties to low forties, while I'm only 22 (in fact nobody on the team is younger than 30 other than me). I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned from them over the years, after getting to know them all well and asking their advice on things.

For me, I got lucky, as some of them are experienced in the field of finance, some in sales, some in teaching, some in medical, etc. etc. You really can learn a lot about the ins and outs of it, what to avoid, what to look for, what is a scam, what is in your best interests and so on. I've always been a bit naive and assumed the best of people before assuming the worst, but they helped open my eyes in the world. In many aspects.

Obviously not everyone plays on a hockey team full of people who are older than them with real-world experience, and not everyone you talk to older than you necessarily has much they can enlighten you with. However, if you know anyone who might have something they can teach you, don't be afraid to make an effort to try and learn from them. I find that most "good samaritan and hard working" types are more than willing to share that sort of knowledge and wisdom they've accumulated over the years. Don't pass up such opportunities if they present themselves. Take advantage.




In regards to politics....

Best thing I've found is that if you want the truth, research and a hell of a lot of it. Research politicians, what promises they've made in the past to do if elected, check what they've been involved in, check what changes have actually happened when they are actually in the position.

For the politicians that are younger/newer/don't have a huge history, it's often a hit or miss. Just know that most successful politicians say a lot of bullshitting, but the sad reality that in order to be elected into positions, a lot of times it simply is a requirement to get there. Some actually make change, others don't do much.

A lot of things in life involve lots of bullshit talk and hollow promises in order to get into the position and actually make change. Is this ideal or good? Not really. However, such is the way of life as history has shown us up until now. I don't see it changing anytime soon. It's nothing new. It doesn't only happen in rural areas. It doesn't only happen in heavily populated areas. It doesn't only happen in the United States. This is just how the world is, for better or worse.

For issues, read all sides, not just your "preferred" sources. Get it from liberal, get it from conservative, and get it from more neutral sources. Hell get it from those extremists that you might think have lost their marbles just to see another perspective. Usually, the truth of the situation and issues brought up is somewhere in the middle of all of that. Politics is all about putting a spin on things, so if you want to be really informed, you have to put in a bit of effort. People fall in the trap of always seeing the bad, or the good in something simply because they want to or it's convenient.

People see it in a liberal light, or a conservative light because that shares their personal views on life. That isn't necessarily altogether bad, however I think it's better if you get a more rounded and informed opinion from all sides before you make any judgments on issues. Though that is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth, everyone has their own.