Not for the official forums...

Raesvelg

I Reckon.
Adventurer
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,650
Age
50
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Delawhere?
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Bastok
Main Job
Paladin-Male
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DarkKnight-Male
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Corsair-Male
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Quetzalcoatl
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PhoenixPimps
FFXIV
Raesvelg Helheim
See, what was originally going to be my 4th MMOs & Gaming blog rather got... derailed during the process of writing it, and devolved into a "Why I Hate Dark Knight" post. Was talking with a friend online tonight, and decided meh, what the hell, I'll post it anyway.

Because I'm not going to be putting on the newly-launched official forums, mostly because I have the sneaking suspicion that they'd ban the ever-loving-HELL out of me.

So.

Here it is:

So I was thinking about the whole MMO thing, and I came to the conclusion that it must really suck to try and develop one. I mean think about it, here you are, faced with an enormous project, limited time to complete it, and a set of design requirements which, while not necessarily mutually exclusive, are often set in a difficult-to-balance form of dynamic tension.

What do I mean by that last bit?

<3<3I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED.<3<3

Given the sort of budgets we're talking about, at least with an MMORPG, most developers don't want to deviate too far from the norm. You want to be able to draw people in, in the classic "it's like, but" fashion. "It's like Warcraft, but with better PVP", for example. It's striking that balance between what you know people are comfortable with, and obviously works, with enough individual character, so to speak, as to set your particular product apart from the rest of the market.

In smaller scale, you want to have classes that are sufficiently familiar as to be recognizable in terms of general archetype, yet be sufficiently distinctive as to give your game a unique character. And on top of all that, you often need to have a variety of classes within a given archetype, and each of those classes has to be distinct from each other, while maintaining overall utility and balance.

Something that FFXI has been historically terrible at, I might add. SE has always had a handful of jobs that they just don't know what to do with, and as such those jobs tend to get the short end of the stick fairly consistently. Take Dark Knight, for example (please, ba-dum-tish). In theory you've got a fairly straightforward concept here; a melee DPS class that has a secondary focus in combat magic. Should be easy, right?

Apparently, not so fucking much, because SE gave DRK one functional gimmick, and then subsequently spent quite a while taking it away from us, while throwing all kinds of utterly useless crap at the job.

Ahem.

So, like I was saying, you've got a wide variety of jobs that are inherently built to the "Melee DPS" archetype; WAR, MNK, DRG, SAM, DRK, BST, and a few that blur into rather indistinct categories of their own (NIN, THF, DNC, PUP), but in terms of the first six, you can look at it as SE's attempt to mix the categories of offense, defense, and utility into a variety of different cocktails.

And failing miserably at it, since those six jobs are about as balanced as a twelve-year old kid with Parkinson's tottering about on six-inch spike heel stripper shoes.

Ahem.

But as I was saying, offense (like Berserk for Warriors, Hasso for Samurai, L-O-FUCKING-L Last Resort for DRK), defense (like Counter for Monks, Seigan for Samurai, L-O-FUCKING-L Dread Spikes for DRK), and utility (Provoke for Warriors, lolCircleAbilitiesforeveryoneelse).

You might get the impression that I feel SE has somehow dropped the ball on this whole balancing act, and is instead prancing about the arena like an incontinent chimpanzee flinging massive handfuls of watery feces at a good half of the jobs available to the FFXI player.

And you'd probably be right.

I look at Dark Knight as... well, as an example of everything not to do with a given class. Like I said, it's fundamentally a simple concept, but SE has managed to fuck the class up (and over) on a fairly regular basis, largely by either abandoning core mechanics of the class, making them largely unplayable, or just plain giving the job utterly useless abilities that nobody really cares about. On the one hand, you have Last Resort, which until the advent of Tier II merits, was a figurative slap in the face to the class as a whole. "What, you want an ability to raise your attack at the cost of lowering your defense! Sure, we can do that! We'll just make it last 1/6th as long as the equivalent job ability for Warrior, while forcing you to expend hundreds of thousands of experience points once you reach 75 in order to make it as good, for those whopping 30 seconds."

Next we have Souleater, which, to be honest, was a good chunk of the reason I wound up playing a Galka. Sacrifice HP to deal damage to the enemy, brilliant! I'll just take a race that has the most HP! Except we never really got a cost-effective way to get that HP back, short of using Blood Weapon, and once players figured out that a high-Haste DRK with a multi-hit weapon was a total nightmare to many things for the 30 seconds that Blood Weapon was up, SE immediately began to nerf the combo, generating a wide array of NMs that either had immunity to, or built immunity to, Souleater.

Oh, but wait, there's Dark Knight's ability to cast spells! That has to be worth something, right?

Hah.

No, not so much, when you limit the job to the weakest elemental magics you can find, and couple it to a small handful of spells that DRK can cast well, but again a large portion of monsters in the game are totally immune, or at the very least highly resistant to Dark Magic spells in the Drain or Absorb category. There was a brief moment of glory when Absorb-TP worked quite effectively, and garnered consistent results for the DRKs using it, but apparently the ability to generate TP on command was decreed solely the domain of the Samurai, so the spell was promptly nerfed. Oh, but wait, they gave us Occult Acumen, that gives up a whopping 10% of the spell's MP cost back as TP by the time we hit the mid 80's!

Seriously, I can't believe that Occult Acumen got past the design committee with anything other than a "Seriously, let's totally fuck with DRK again, it'll be funny" as the mission statement.

So what has DRK gotten since the level cap went up? Lesse, the ability to weaken Arcana (HAH); bonus TP for parrying (with the job's massive E rating in the skill); a level of attack and critical damage bonus which is actually useful (but worth noting that Warrior got twice the crit bonus); the ability to enhance one of our Dark magic spells every five minutes, which is arguably useful, but again, once every five minutes.

Part of the problem with DRK is a matter of time, when you get right down to it. Casting spells takes too long; in the time it takes to cast a Tier III nuke, a DRK with a good haste build will typically get in two or three swings, which will do more damage, generate more TP for the DRK, and consume no MP. The only real way to fix that aspect of DRK's mechanics would be to give them more Fast Cast than God (and certainly more than RDM), which probably wouldn't sit overly well with some folks.

So really, the obvious answer for SE is to look into ways of utilizing DRK's MP pool in more creative ways than just spellcasting, which SE seems loathe to even consider. I can imagine abilities where you convert the %HP loss of Souleater in %MP loss, or have a persistent %MP loss in order to boost damage dealing capabilities, or defensive capabilities. There are a lot of ways to make DRK an effective, top-tier damage dealer again, but it's going to require some measure of thinking outside of the box.
 
I'd like it noted that I never asked the question that brought on this whole blog post. Don't put words in my mouth, asshole D:
 
Be glad it's just words. I'm a lonely man.
 
I get it. You want to stick your penis in my mouth. Jokes are funny!
 
mouth and asshole myrrh... you did offer
 
Wait, that's what they reduced DRK to? Fuck that, man. I was almost going to say I missed playing DRK but now I'm even more glad than before that I shitkicked the habit.
 
Yeah, they basically took DRK out behind the Melee DPS shed and shot us in the head. At least in comparison to what they gave WAR and MNK.
 
That's disheartening to read. I loved being a Drk. It's a shame they really shafted us after all the new level caps. (Stopped playing back when the cap was just 75)

But I am not really suprised at all that War got the love, they always got the fucking love. Goddamn Warriors.
 
Yeah, Restraint and Blood Rage are just a TAD more useful in the whole "DD" role than Nether Void and Arcane Crest. To say nothing of making MNK into the preferred endgame tank in Abyssea at least, while also giving them Impetus.

The best part of Restraint is how they took away the downside that actually made the name "Restraint" make sense. Seriously. Was supposed to be a "Your WS do more damage, but you can't crit" ability. Now it's just "Your WS do more damage, hahafuckyouDRKDRG&SAM".

Seems like a lot of jobs have sort of fallen by the wayside in the post-75 era. Sure, my DRK can still dish out impressive damage... for 30 seconds out of every 5 minutes, but Souleater has long been one of those abilities that is crippled by its own mechanic, and I think I already mentioned what a slap in the face Last Resort was before T2 merits were added. Even after T2 merits were added, it's still probably less useful overall than something like Berserk or Hasso.
 
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I totally agree and have to add SAM was taken behind shed as well. This really only concerns DPS inside Abyssea, mind you. Outside, taking the Razed Ruins out of the equation, oh ho ho, we're still very strong. However, DPS outside Abyssea solely relies on updated abilities of the past. Nothing from the post 75 patches, as you've centered this about, help us like other classes new abilities.

Restraint and Impetus, like you mentioned are incredibly unbalanced. SAM, for example, learned a new ability which increases Skillchain and Magic Burst damage. If this were 2004, that would be acceptable...

I'd like to see an ability for DRK and SAM similar to Blood Rage. Instead of increasing critical damage by 20%, increase our weaponskill damage by a similar amount. A TP Bonus like Hagun's could balance them.

A lot of complaints I see about DRK are the short duration of Last Resort, the inability of allowing Scythe or Great Sword weaponskills to critical and the lack of Double Attack. However, we need to remember there's a difference between balancing a job and making it identical to another. A DRK with DA, 2 minutes of Last Resort and a critical weaponskill would be MUCH too similar to WAR. We would also be MUCH stronger, considering Desperate Blows and Endark.

While Endark doesn't offer a static 25% attack increase like Berserk, we also receive no defense penalty and are able to keep Endark's attack bonus up indefinitely. I think you forgot to mention this, as it is actually the best thing DRK has seen post 75.

It's definitely nothing compared to Restraint and Impetus, but it is a step in the right direction.

All in all, I'm not concerned with any of that. I can finally wield and demolish Scythe damage with a Great Sword again. I missed Spinning Slash the end of a Light Skillchain for so long...Now I can create a Light Skillchain myself.
 
Yeah, Caladbolg does give us a few options. But I would dearly like to see DRK become a top-tier DD at some point, albeit in a different fashion from the other melee DPS jobs.

34 more hearts to go... stupid Isgebind...
 
To be fair: SAM needed to be taken out behind the shed a long, long time ago.
 
Truely spoken like someone who hasn't played the game in ages, Trist. Well-supported MNKs and WARs have always had an edge over SAM, and once Gekko's attack bonus no longer meant much, the typical SAM's usefulness took a nose dive.

I think you've missed the two things that really make WAR and MNK ridiculous these days, Raes. Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite.
 
To be honest, I'm not even talking about Abyssea. I can hold my own, more or less, largely thanks to me Caladbolg and a decent (though desperately in need of Twilight gear that I have to make the time to get once the servers are back up) gear set. Outside of Abyssea, I do rather well, in fact.

Inside Abyssea, of course, things are heavily skewed towards jobs with crit-based WS, what with Razed Ruins and similar atmas, but my main complaint in this was that even leaving Abyssea aside, SE has not been dishing out their favors equally among the various jobs.

Take the PLD vs NIN situation, for example. PLD gets Enlight, adding some marginal damage to a job that, frankly, is not exactly what one would call renowned for their DPS. NIN, on the other hand, gets Migawari... which makes you immune to one-shots. I know which one I'd prefer in the tanking role.

I suspect that they're going to have to take some long, hard looks at the job balance situation and come up with a solution that allows the various jobs to play to their strengths, and frankly that might just mean they have to nerf WAR and MNK in some fashion, because right now they're not really experiencing much in the way of downside.

What I expect, to be honest, is a nerf to Counter proc rate, and... I don't know what to do about WAR, lol. The job has always been SE's golden child in the melee DPS category, barring a brief period where people preferred SAMs for many roles.
 
Nor am I speaking only about Abyssea. Ukko's and Smite survive exceptionally well without Razed Ruins, unlike Blade: Hi (and NIN in general). I'd go as far as to say that even the WoE-version of the respective weapons are likely the biggest single gear upgrade the jobs can get, regardless of the zone.
 
Nyosan~;bt228 said:
Truely spoken like someone who hasn't played the game in ages, Trist. Well-supported MNKs and WARs have always had an edge over SAM, and once Gekko's attack bonus no longer meant much, the typical SAM's usefulness took a nose dive.

I think you've missed the two things that really make WAR and MNK ridiculous these days, Raes. Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite.

I won't make bones about it being ages since I've played, Nyo. That's certainly a given, and the game wasn't the same four months after I left, let alone the nearly three years I've been gone.

The only edge I saw WAR had over SAM when I played was Ridill spam, and I do not recall an edge MNK had back then.

If I'm mistaken, and I probably am, I apologize. I'm just saying what I felt based on when I played.
 
They were exceptional Chariot tanks in Salvage, I can't recall them being an outspoken DD like they are now, though.

The reason Victory Smite is so powerful, is because it's a 4-hit high STR mod WS which can crit. Naturally a 2.25 damage multiplier, which is 5.25 when all hits connect.

Ukko's Fury performs similarly to Raging Rush.

The ultimate reason why these weapons blow everything away:

Empyrean weapon's Aftermath is the main difference between them and Dynamis Relics. Double Damage rate of 30% at 100TP (30seconds), 40% at 200TP (60seconds) and 50% at 300TP(90seconds).
 
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Ukko's and Raging Rush have the same effective fTP, but Ukko's has an additional 25% STR WSC. That's still a decent upgrade. Short of Relic/Mythic/Empyrean, it comes down to a comparison of Maschu +2 and Ukko's vs. Widowmaker and Raging Rush. During WS with, say, 140 STR, that equates to an additional ~30 base DMG on what is otherwise a similar WS.
 
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