Nother little technical thing..NIN/RDM?

Mishaela

Mishaela

Too French to Care
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Always heard how NIN/BLM worked especially well with Ninjutsu nukes (though expensive)..

Was just wondering, is NIN/RDM any good? Faster Utsusemi (well, Ichi would benefit a bit more than Ni), as well as Enspells...believe RDM get one magic attack bonus as well as some INT, so it's also close to the benefits of /BLM..

Anyways, uhm, yeh, just wondering. Opinions on how this would/wouldn't work? ^^;
 
might work for soloing, dont know about partying though. phalanx at higher levels, stoneskin, en-spells like you said. interesting idea. im not sure how itd work.....hmmmm.
 
Blm sub was for the +magic attack. I don't think fast cast + enspells/stoneskin/phalanx would make up for that. Also, that setup requires mp use (unless you only use fast cast) which then requires some kind of mp refresh.
 
Rones said:
Blm sub was for the +magic attack. I don't think fast cast + enspells/stoneskin/phalanx would make up for that. Also, that setup requires mp use (unless you only use fast cast) which then requires some kind of mp refresh.
Click to expand...

True, /RDM would lose on out some magic attack bonus, and NIN would need some source of getting refreshed..the main comparison trait-wise, is Fast Cast II, Resist Petrify II (should they not be quick to turn), Magic Def I and Magic Attack Bonus I vs....just Magic Attack Bonus II. I dunno if BLM if really that much more powerful of a sub for NIN.

Regarding spells, I think them having something like Stoneskin and then En-spells would only be convenient at certain times anyways, but if it were a BRD party, couldn't they simply run over to the mages and get Ballad inbetween pulls to get some MP back before getting actual battle buffs thrown on em when the next monster arrives at camp? Alternatively, if the party Refresher is THAT packed with duties, the NIN could always just carry a Yag Drink. I mean if they can afford to Ninjutsu nuke, they can afford a Yag or two, right?

Just my opinion though ^^;;


*edit* Sorry if Magic Attack Bonus II really gives that much more of a boost than MAB I does, just assuming it gives the same..
 
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nin/rdm is a good combination ^^ +int gear and +evasion gear, you're a good dd and tank, -with- the ability to cure all at the same time. of course blm sub is better for damage, but when rdm and blm both have 1 Magic Attack Bonus subbed (like with level capped stuff), /rdm is nice ^^

really the only downside i see is
1) meleeing gives tp, and the hits are weak (but you don't melee a lot when casting, do you?),
2) you lack 'voke (but you can do enough damage to make up for it),
3) tools and both int and eva gear are expensive and space-consuming, but the nukes are significant enough to be worth the time.
4) not enough mp to really matter a lot casting traditional spells... maybe the occasional always-stickable enfeeb, like dia or bio, a few cures (taru have a good advantage here), and you'd need some sort of refresh (drinks, ballad, or refresh) for long drawn-out fights.
 
generally subbed-only skills (for anyone, except sub nin or sub whm) is hard to justify being used. You don't see a rdm/mnk meleeing hand-to-hand, or a bard casting slow counting on it to stick. subbed buffs work the same way. stoneskin generally isn't worth the mp subbed (because it's half as effective for the same mp), phalanx isn't worth the mp (it's dependent on enhancing magic skill, which in this case, nin has none naturally), en-spells are gimped (6 damage per hit at lv. 40?), and enfeebs aren't worth the mp to hope it might stick.
 
Ninjas go through the elemental wheel before the first spell has cooled down, so they wouldn't really benefit from fast cast.
 
fast cast utsusemi, and fast cast lowers recast time a little
 
Aquaveil would be a good spell to use for NIN/RDM too. I don't remember what level RDM gets haste, so i don't know for sure if the Ninja who subs RDM would ever have it.

When it comes to in party, i think boath RDM and BRD would be in the best interest for the party to have. The Ninja/RDM will have to nuke alot, even try to get a head start on damage to in the begining of the battle to hold hate.

For party use i don't think NIN/RDM would be as effective. "When" the Ninja loses hate, they would have to cast their most damaging spells, from best to worst until the mob returns to them, which isn't as fast as voke. It would cost the party more MP and even with +7 MP per tic i don't think the Ninja/RDM would be able to hold hate past chain 3, due to the amount of nuking they will need to do.

Then again i can be wrong, +7 MP per tic is a very extreme way to roll. 15 seconds would provode 35 MP or so, the question is, Is that 15 seconds going to be free enough ? I think every round would cost the Ninja/RDM over 200 MP, little more little less.
 
lmao

why would a nin main nuke with mp spells? ninjutsu ftw! ^^

because you're not using mp to nuke with nin, you can toss out anything you want/have. That means lots more nukes, faster nukes. +enmity attached to that will cement hate pretty well too.

rdm gets haste at 50ish, so yeah ^^;

personally i think that a nin/rdm's best place in a party is in fights where people have to manage taking on more than one mob or nm. CoP missions come to mind here, or say BCNM40 PCC, or other things like that.

sub rdm might not be able to nuke the way sub blm can, but they'd have comparable INT, Fast Cast, and more utility spells (cure, en-spell, dia/bio, even bar-spells and protect/shell if so inclined). Also, rdm keeps pace with blm at certain levels. Not all fights are 75/37. As such, the nin wouldn't have to push themselves too hard to keep hate.

EXP? yeah, nin would want the snap-hate from 'voke. but not everything in the game is an exp session ^^

a nin/rdm doesn't need heavy refresh to be efficient. hell, even a ballad 1 would have been more than enough for the nin/rdm i've seen in action.
 
sorry for the language ^^; been having a rough day at work
 
47+, I'd be inclined to lean towards /RDM. NIN can wear the Moldavite Earring, which should cover the MAB deficiency of /RDM. At most, /BLM will give only MAB II (15 and 35, if I remember correctly) so you're losing out on only 1 tier of the boost. Not sure how much that will affect your output but I'd say NIN/RDM sounds like something fun and viable to try.
 
Even if Red Mage has fast cast, I don't see any use for NIN/RDM. Don't want to try it and don't really care about Utsusemi Ichi casting any faster. I usually cast it when I get hit the second time. If no one vokes and lets me die well, they're dumb and shouldn't play FFXI.
 
Having tried both combinations, I will say /blm is overwhelmingly a better DD.

The magic attack bonus for 1 and the INT bonus.

The problem with the RDM spells is...1 if you're not tanking, cause you have no provoke, you don't need phalanx. Nin/blm takes hate but the tank will get it back before you run through all your shadows usually.

Next the En spells are pointless. Nin/blm doesn't even melee. You should be swapping staves in for 10 or 15%(hq) damage bonus.

Fast cast is pointless, Ni spells are instant anyway and the ichi nukes are a waste of time.

The only reason I was ever Nin/rdm was to nuke and(with double ballad) main heal another ninja. It was quite a crazy party.. but you have to understand I'm taru with MP merits...
 
yeah i agree with you firestreak ^^

nin/rdm is geared for pretty specific setups... in my case it was Pud who tanked some Mammets as nin/rdm, lvl capped at 40 btw, so it's not like he'd benefit from subbing blm there (MAB I either way). he was loaded with int and eva gear, and had no problems at all.

Him being a taru... helps a lot ^^; I wouldn't sub rdm for nin personally, since i'd have almost no mp (i'm a hume). I know he went heavy on the MP merits too (he's whm main), so that's helpful too.

Needless to say, nin/rdm is more of a solo than an exp combination. I'd think it's closer to nin/whm than nin/blm, simply because of the cure spells. They're kinda helpful soloing ^^; rdm's naturally low mp kind of hurts this combination though.

in my opinion nin/rdm is about as limited in practicality as drg/whm. That doesn't mean they can't do a great job, but it's simply not as efficient damage-wise as a more practical sub.

i still think it could be a lot of fun though ^^
 
Yeah Reishu said it all imo there.

Nin/Rdm is somewhat pointless other than soloing, possiby more specific in an occasional bcnm/enm, like the mammet fight it helped, but otherwise just no.

Enspell is only 1/2 as strong, which is dmg you could simply get from WAR sub due to natural str increase and added double attack. You get buffs... but they won't last long though (Stoneskin/phalanx) on T-IT mobs, but then again Nin/Rdm wouldn't be tanking. You get to cure, but not much mp before you need to sit down again. Fast cast doesn't help since the Ni line of spells are already quite fast.

Maybe a group of 5 Nin/Rdms + 1 Nin/Brd could be fun for an xp party, or slowly beating down something crazy, but meh :?
 
/rdm is best for skillup on Parry. Phalanx is pretty bad with rdm sub, but it has its benefits for solo play
 
Someone in my LS was talking about being a rdm/nin, now that may be good for soloing but probably not really in a pty as they couldn't really be much of a tank, but what if rdm/nin were to become tank? With phalanx, stoneskin, utsmetsu, and other defences... Although I'm willing to bet their defense still wouldn't be as high as that of pld or nin or other tank jobs.
 
they can't provoke. and they can't do the damage the keep up. There evasion isn't as high and there defence isn't like a pld. a few hits for it and stoneskin is gone. RDM/NIN is a killer solo job. but bring that to a xp session and i'm booting you. I dont care if your the only person lfp with refresh. from my experience, people that play rdm/nin or melee at all as rdm in a xp party can't stick enfebbels and dont refresh like they should. they are more intersted in swinging there stick around.

I got 2 words for someone that wants the do that. SWITCH JOBS!
 
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