Now on to the next victory...maybe??

[Strid]

Ok, so now we know through determination and all that goes with it we can have the King HNM's as NA based shells. Now on to the next problem.

**I want to clearly note there is still work to be done for getting the kings, I'm not dimissing that fact at all, I just want to point something else out that could lead to destruction of the economy and many other things.**

Wednesday I saw something so bad that I turned red in the face and drilled my wall. I claimed Serket with a buddy going to take him out duo style. 3min into the fight Gil-Sellers show up cure me (though I had lost no hit points so it was worthless) and their PLD Invincibled. Now they lost in their steal attempt and move on. I Dced about 15min into the fight came back with 8hp and dropped on the next poison. NHunters nabbed claim, grats guys on the kill, I move on. Next stop Roc. The same crew who came to try and nab Serket had Roc. Next stop Lumberjack. Another set of Gil-Sellers where on him from the same pack that claimed Roc. Go back in time with me please. I have saw them kill Serket, Bune, Roc, Lumberjack, Bloodtear, Steelfleace, Amemet (duh who hasn't :roll: ), Guivre, Pelican, bah you get the point, I hope.. This is getting out of hand. Am I alone when I think that? Now, it's clear SE do not care of the obvious sellers, who in which have survived the few "we booted some suspected sellers". They are comming in by the masses and just pouring into the NM/HNM scene.. This is obvious.

So I'd like to ask what do we do? We had to use force to get Fafnir dead, is it ok to use the same force to drive these people out? MPKing, stealing, etc. is wrong but I'm a firm believer in the saying "The right thing to do is not always the best thing to do". We need to get these peope out of here. It is obvious the people who do buy will never stop so saying the old excuse "Well, if Joe would stop buying gil it would all end." That will never happen, people will always use RMT if it's more fruitful and sources are plentiful to them. Just like with the kings, we have set back doing nothing and watched them pour into our server and slowly but surely advance in their progress. We need to put an end to this before it gets much more out of hand.

I don't want this to turn into a rant please or a "OMG K33L d3m b1tchezz!!". I know it's hard but try and keep it mature for once.

Discuss please.

 

[Krisy]

Personally...if gil sellers get claim, let them be...they worked for claim and thats all good etc...so w/e. Now if they mpk when you get claim the day before...shit give them a taste of their own medicine. I think eventually SE will start looking at the people who are monopolizing nms and get rid of them.

 

[Dowzer]

Recently while I was up on the 11th and 12th floors of Upper Delkfutt's...Leol, Awrxwrf, and the rest of their crew were taking down Pallas. The rest of the time they just killed Magic Pots on the 12th...probably waiting for Alkyenous.

I just hope they never make it into sky... :evil:

 

[Odon]

You never saw them kill bune..


They will never kill bune..

 

[Odon]

Recently while I was up on the 11th and 12th floors of Upper Delkfutt's...Leol, Awrxwrf, and the rest of their crew were taking down Pallas. The rest of the time they just killed Magic Pots on the 12th...probably waiting for Alkyenous.

I just hope they never make it into sky... :evil:

If they ever make it to sky, i will be level 50 again.

 

[Anderithe]

Someone tell me why SE doesn't just spawn gil and sell it at a lower rate? That'd fix the problem and make them cash?

 

[masterorion]

Ok, so now we know through determination and all that goes with it we can have the King HNM's as NA based shells. Now on to the next problem.

**I want to clearly note there is still work to be done for getting the kings, I'm not dimissing that fact at all, I just want to point something else out that could lead to destruction of the economy and many other things.**

Wednesday I saw something so bad that I turned red in the face and drilled my wall. I claimed Serket with a buddy going to take him out duo style. 3min into the fight Gil-Sellers show up cure me (though I had lost no hit points so it was worthless) and their PLD Invincibled. Now they lost in their steal attempt and move on. I Dced about 15min into the fight came back with 8hp and dropped on the next poison. NHunters nabbed claim, grats guys on the kill, I move on. Next stop Roc. The same crew who came to try and nab Serket had Roc. Next stop Lumberjack. Another set of Gil-Sellers where on him from the same pack that claimed Roc. Go back in time with me please. I have saw them kill Serket, Bune, Roc, Lumberjack, Bloodtear, Steelfleace, Amemet (duh who hasn't :roll: ), Guivre, Pelican, bah you get the point, I hope.. This is getting out of hand. Am I alone when I think that? Now, it's clear SE do not care of the obvious sellers, who in which have survived the few "we booted some suspected sellers". They are comming in by the masses and just pouring into the NM/HNM scene.. This is obvious.

So I'd like to ask what do we do? We had to use force to get Fafnir dead, is it ok to use the same force to drive these people out? MPKing, stealing, etc. is wrong but I'm a firm believer in the saying "The right thing to do is not always the best thing to do". We need to get these peope out of here. It is obvious the people who do buy will never stop so saying the old excuse "Well, if Joe would stop buying gil it would all end." That will never happen, people will always use RMT if it's more fruitful and sources are plentiful to them. Just like with the kings, we have set back doing nothing and watched them pour into our server and slowly but surely advance in their progress. We need to put an end to this before it gets much more out of hand.

I don't want this to turn into a rant please or a "OMG K33L d3m b1tchezz!!". I know it's hard but try and keep it mature for once.

Discuss please.

sorry that i had to watch you die at serket. you know how it is. if i was there in a normal pt, i would have thrown you a cure or two. i hate to watch people die, but were alll out for the cash.(which i barely have any of)

 

[Strid]

You never saw them kill bune..


They will never kill bune..

Oh but they have Bune use to be a sitting duck , mostly, before you guys in NHunters and BoL arrived on the scene. Saw them take him down on more than one occasion. Bune is weak if done correctly and they have what it takes...

Masterorion, I know exactly how it is man no worries. My loss all the way. I should have reset my router before logging in, I knew it was going to dc me it was just a matter of when.

 

[Strid]

You never saw them kill bune..


They will never kill bune..

Oh but they have Bune use to be a sitting duck , mostly, before you guys in NHunters and BoL arrived on the scene. Saw them take him down on more than one occasion. Bune is weak if done correctly and they have what it takes...

Masterorion, I know exactly how it is man no worries. My loss all the way. I should have reset my router before logging in, I knew it was going to dc me it was just a matter of when.

 

[NeogearzX]

hey man kill dem bitches, i mpk a gil seller as often as i can lol

 

[Daveman]

Someone tell me why SE doesn't just spawn gil and sell it at a lower rate? That'd fix the problem and make them cash?

Spawn gil? that'd make the inflation the gil sellers are making that much more worse. Sell at lower rate? More will buy, and make the inflation worse. SE sanctioned gil selling? Now people can make an argument (and a damn good one - doubt anyone could say otherwise) that gil buying isn't wrong, aka: MORE people buying gil, and making inflation worse.

Honestly, if it didn't affect inflation, and they didn't MPK and steal or get monopolies, I wouldn't mind the existance of gil sellers. (buyers still a little... but my main problems with them is directly related to the nasty stuff sellers do, not them actually buying it).

 

[Sethala]

As I said in a different topic, the only thing wrong with buying/selling gil is the whole "fairness" issue. Any other problem you have with gilsellers can be easily done by another, "legit" player. MPK to steal a NM or get rid of possible competition? It's been done. Hold a monopoly on NMs (or monsters with NM-quality drops)? Yep - heck, my LS had a short monopoly on Stroper Chyme not too long ago, although we were only there for a few hours and only controlled two spawn points. Anything the gilsellers do that hurts other players can be just as easily done by a coordinated LS that doesn't mind breaking rules to get things done. What they do with the gil they earn has no real bearing.

 

[Drizzet]

Gilselling and gilbuying are cheating and cheating IMO defeat the whole purpose of the game.

If there is something that can be done to hinder the gilsellers on our server then maybe it will slow the gillbuyers down due to supply and demand.

Most gilbuyers are impatiant so if somehow we could slow or even temporarly stop the flow of gil you would have alot of buyers leave or at least leave the game for a little bit.

So overall yes if there is something we can do to stop the gilbuyers on Hnm's its a great idea, but if we do that I have a feeling they will just start farming or crafting more flooding the markets with mass amounts of goods. But either way its worth a try cause what do we have to loose?

 

[Noxxx]

I wish I had something positive and reasuring to say... but I don't. Sellers are locusts, they devour all that they can in one area, then move on, mulitplying all the while. If you wanna see were this whole sellers killing NM/HNM thing is going review the fight for gusgen.

Beating sellers isn't like beating other players, they won't get bored, they won't go away, they won't move on. Take from them enough and all they're gonna do is get replaced by another worker who can get the job done better. But in the short run, if you beat them to one, they'll move to the next and then come back tommrow.

Gil sellers don't sleep, the people who play them do, but the characters themselves stay active all day and all night. If you're going to go up agains these guys, remember that you're not going up against another person, you're going up agaist a team of people, and for the most part you should just pretend they are npcs.

 

[Tyrath]

Recently while I was up on the 11th and 12th floors of Upper Delkfutt's...Leol, Awrxwrf, and the rest of their crew were taking down Pallas. The rest of the time they just killed Magic Pots on the 12th...probably waiting for Alkyenous.

I just hope they never make it into sky... :evil:

If they ever make it to sky, i will be level 50 again.

Its happened on other servers. Its not impossible

 

[Perkypyro]

Honestly, if it didn't affect inflation, and they didn't MPK and steal or get monopolies, I wouldn't mind the existance of gil sellers.

Could someone please explain to me how gilsellers cause inflation? If you ask me, inflation is a result of more gil being created than being taken away. Gilsellers can't magically create gil. For the most part, any gil they get was given to them by another player in return for an item (through the AH). Maybe I'm missing something here... I hear this argument a lot.

 

[Phraust]

Honestly, if it didn't affect inflation, and they didn't MPK and steal or get monopolies, I wouldn't mind the existance of gil sellers.

Could someone please explain to me how gilsellers cause inflation? If you ask me, inflation is a result of more gil being created than being taken away. Gilsellers can't magically create gil. For the most part, any gil they get was given to them by another player in return for an item (through the AH). Maybe I'm missing something here... I hear this argument a lot.

Here it is:

It's a Vicious Cycle:

1) Gill sellers collect money 24/7
- even if on average they make only 20k/hr they still rake in 480k/day.

2) The average player makes 20k/hr but they can't do it 24/7.

3) Money is entering a game at an Unnatural rate.

4) Money that is purchased, is now spent on items that the gil sellers are holding.

Example:

Gilseller gets a Archer ring
Player buys 500k form a website.
Player then buys an Archer ring for 500k to make into a Sniper's Ring.
Player gets a ring, Gil seller gets Real life cash, and 500k in game.
Money has not left the game.
Items are still coming in at a specific rate.
Gil sellers are getting too much money.
Gil sellers drop price on the websites.
More customers come to buy gil.
Gil is cheap and people are willing to pay higher prices for items because they don't have to wait or work for it now.
The cycle continues.

Basically it's the unnatural flow of gil into the game that is causeing inflation. What a gil seller does in one day, a player takes a week to do.

 

[alanon]

Here it is:

It's a Vicious Cycle:

1) Gill sellers collect money 24/7
- even if on average they make only 20k/hr they still rake in 480k/day.

2) The average player makes 20k/hr but they can't do it 24/7.

3) Money is entering a game at an Unnatural rate.

4) Money that is purchased, is now spent on items that the gil sellers are holding.

I disagree with this, especially the bolded part. The current crop of gilsellers dont seem to be creating any new gil. All their gil comes from items they farm and are purchased by other players using existing gil. Number 3 was more a case with rusty caps where hoards of gilsellers botted caps.

The problem with gilsellers is that their clientel suddenly has an influx of cash and wantonly spends it regardless of price. As a crafter, Ill take their gil with open arms, but it sucks for the rest of you.

Personally I dont think inflation has been too aweful. Sure the price on items has increased. I know it's easy to bitch when the price of an item you want has jumped, but do you still bitch when you sell that stack of silk for 20k? Hell back when I started my empire :twisted: I would spend HOURS in ghelsba mining/logging. So much so that to this day I still get a shiver when I see the letters e-l-m. Hell elm log back then was 2.5-3k. The Darksteele was pretty steady around 5k. Now elm are 8k and DS is going for like 18k!!! Anyway, yes items being bought are increasing, but so are the items you farm/sell.