One reported dead, several injured in Virginia Tech shootings

The real solution to lower violence in the US is to focus more on integrating different societies that seem to spring up in high population areas that have their own sets of values. We're taught to encourage diversity more than any other country, but having different populations non-integrated leads to violence. Case and point, look at European countries like France. It's very liberal. It's anti-gun, but they have a Muslim population within them that's separate, it creates so much violence as some want to stay away and some want to all the privileges of the greater French society.

Unfortunately, if you're not going to accept the French customs and be part of the society, then you're not going to have as high of a quality of life because you not going to be connected.

In short, it's fine if people don't want to forget where they come from, but what's most important is where you are now.
 
The fact is, I feel a lot more confident in a fight that doesn't involve the other person having a gun.

Also that guncite webpage doesn't shoot any argument to shit, your comparing 3rd world countries to first world. And comparing countries with required military service to countries without... where is your actual comparison?

Having a friend of a friend or a friends family member will connections to getting you a weapon is exactly what I'm talking about. The US government needs to eliminate these numerous options for people to obtain weapons. And it all starts with voluntary disarming of handguns and assault rifles. It's not cheap, the Government would have to spend millions to refund people for their weapons and then some, but it would work. People will always take money > safety.

If you bought a gun for $800 and the government offered you $2000 to buy it back would you not oblige? They probably wouldn't accept ilegally obtained weapons so you wouldn't be able to profit from this (if they did then it would only be to track down the seller), and the government would also need to crackdown on retailers and manufacturer's of guns, as well as importing weapons from other countries. But if you say it can't be done then you simply have no faith.
 
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It is true, American's have easier access to guns both legal and illegal in comparison to other G5 nations.

Not at all. I daresay it's just as easy to find a gun wherever you happen to be if you look in the right places.

*cue elvis*

(rep up for anyone who gets the joke and chews me out about it.)


Hence why I also brought up easy access to ammunition/guns. When someone is buying 400 rounds of ammo for a gun it's time to question whats going on. And no, one gun is a lot better than a duffle bag as far as efficiency goes.

OIC, so it's ok if i want to bring a revolver in to a school because we're now shifting to efficiency. Btw, I occasionally happen to go shoot targets for kicks with the grandad's gun, when i do i tend to buy a ton of bullets. Does that purchase somehow allude to me doing wrong. Should the guy at the counter grill me for it past my saying 'gonna shoot some targets'? See, this becomes the problem. No matter what you're up to there's a VERY easy cover story for it that doesn't lead to much questioning. There's an incredibly easy and viable counter to every concern raised.

You're essentially arguing for stricter gun control in this paragraph.

I'm for stricter gun control. I'm also for sending the president to war and marijuana legalization. Doesn't mean i think that those things would solve all my problems.

I wasn't countering your argument in my paragraph, I was countering previous statements brought up in this thread which I thought were ridiculous.

My bad, it just ... rawr. You know how it is.

Democracy is a government where the public elects it's officials, I know because we're also democratic country and effectively tossed John Chretien without a show of arms

See, this above all things, immediately shows you're not a US citizen nor have you spent much time here. While i agree and understand it's just simply not the case here. Sympathy for the devil?

Uhm....kinda a moot point since this isn't the first hundred years.

Exactly what i was saying. It is moot. There's not much point. If we were going to we would have, many times. Recently. But the founding fathers didn't imagine we'd make it this far. I'm sure they hoped. But there's no way you can realisticly sit there and say they had all this that the US is in mind when the wrote the constitution. They made shots in the dark and tried to provide their government with opportunities to avoid totalitarianism.

Did you know that it used to be law that if a peasant owned a greyhound they would be put to death? Do you know what england did? They changed it because it was out of date. No laws are timeless because society changes.

Yea, because that draws such a close comparison to protecting yourself from tresspassers, foreign invaders, and a possibly omnipresent corrupt and abusive government.

Meanwhile the monarchy is still in place over there. It does nothing, yet there it is.

Super bad example.
 
The real solution to lower violence in the US is to focus more on integrating different societies that seem to spring up in high population areas that have their own sets of values. We're taught to encourage diversity more than any other country, but having different populations non-integrated leads to violence. Case and point, look at European countries like France. It's very liberal. It's anti-gun, but they have a Muslim population within them that's separate, it creates so much violence as some want to stay away and some want to all the privileges of the greater French society.

Unfortunately, if you're not going to accept the French customs and be part of the society, then you're not going to have as high of a quality of life because you not going to be connected.

In short, it's fine if people don't want to forget where they come from, but what's most important is where you are now.

Win.

It's not the guns that are the problem.

It's the people.

Personally i'm of the opinion if we all went the way of Amsterdam, Italy, or Spain in how they handle everyday life we'd all be alot better off.

Interesting sidenote AND on topic: This kid at VT had been put in a mental health facility for stalking 2 women previous to the shootings. Which further speaks to my point, if we had adequate and competent health and psych care in this country we'd see less of this crap -.-

Between this and the plays and whatnot there were just as many warnings on these guys as the columbine kids and most other cases of this nature. It's just that no one gave a shit.
 
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The fact is, I feel a lot more confident in a fight that doesn't involve the other person having a gun.

I'd feel safer in a country without saturated fat, cars, alcohol and cigarettes. These things kill a lot more people than guns every year. Being that I live in an area without any real crime, I have no interest in buying a gun, but if I didn't feel safe then I must admit a firearm would be a lot more important to me than a lot of those more dangerous objects I mentioned earlier.
 
This is a good link for a short summary of past school shootings

http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/SpecialFeatures/Articles/SchoolViolence

Scroll to the bottom and click the continue button.


PS: from the VT news feed

"As such, he was legally eligible to buy a handgun. A receipt found in Cho's backpack showed he had bought a Glock 9mm pistol in March. It cost him US$571"
 
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Yeah it's funny that if I own a pool and some kid buys a ladder to climb over my fence then drowns in my pool, that I can get sued for millions.

By the way, don't take my pro-gun control stance to mean that I think USA > Canada.

Canada Drug Policy > USA Drug Policy. There's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to smoke pot if I want to. It's fucking ridiculous.
 
Speaking of ridiculous arguments.

Pools vs Guns, wtg guys!

Something designed for summer fun VS Something designed to put holes in people.
 
Yea, well in Canada and this isn't something I have heard in a long time but I remember hearing about someone who killed an unarmed thief in their house and they got charged with manslaughter for it, since it was not in self defense, however I will not disagree with that charge. It's part of the rights we give up to be safer, you cannot defend your home with force (murder) unless it's to defend your or someone else from physical pain. Call it crazy or whatever.
 
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Speaking of ridiculous arguments.

Pools vs Guns, wtg guys!

Something designed for summer fun VS Something designed to put holes in people.

Aw come on, no reason to get all /seriousface about it.

Look the whole thing sucks and you can go either way on gun control but the one thing human beings excell at is being brutally unpredictable both in the large scale and small.

The things we go pale over and get upset about were commonplace to our forefathers at any given point in history.

I dunno, it's something of a comfort to me to know that things have been worse for longer than they've been better.
 
Speaking of ridiculous arguments.

Pools vs Guns, wtg guys!

Something designed for summer fun VS Something designed to put holes in people.

If you live in an area where you might get raped and murdered walking from your home to your grocery store, what's more important? The problem is that the high crime areas where most of the gun violence happens are the areas where people need self protection.

Personally I'd rather be relaxing in a nice pool, but not everyone is lucky as me to live in a nice area.
 
Yea, well in Canada and this isn't something I have heard in a long time but I remember hearing about someone who killed an unarmed thief in their house and they got charged with manslaughter for it, since it was not in self defense, however I will not disagree with that charge. It's part of the rights we give up to be safer, you cannot defend your home with force (murder) unless it's to defend your or someone else from physical pain. Call it crazy or whatever.

Yeah one of my friends was telling me a few weeks ago that at home he's got an unregistered, untraceable gun so in the event he has to shoot a robber he can just throw it on them. I guess it beats going to jail.
 
This is a good link for a short summary of past school shootings

http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/SpecialFeatures/Articles/SchoolViolence

Scroll to the bottom and click the continue button.

Sad, but the numbers are very small in comparison to DUI's, Cancer, or even Medical Malpractice. While I'm sure that some of those would not have happened with tighter gun control, some surely still would have happened. Hell there have been several instances where gunmen were actually thwarted because of citizens who had CC licenses.

This yahoo at VT obviously had this planned for some time. The current gun laws in his area make it illegal for you to buy more than one gun in a 30 day period. So he bought the first gun, waited the 30 days and bought the second and went on a rampage the next school day. This was not a crime of convenience as has been put, the was planned out AT LEAST a month in advance. If guns were illegal, he would have either obtained them anyway, or found another way to kill. Ironic that if the girls that accused him of stalking a few years back had actually pressed charges, he would not of been able to obtain a gun legally (though I still say he would have pulled this off another way).
 
If you live in an area where you might get raped and murdered walking from your home to your grocery store, what's more important? The problem is that the high crime areas where most of the gun violence happens are the areas where people need self protection.

Personally I'd rather be relaxing in a nice pool, but not everyone is lucky as me to live in a nice area.

I'm going to have to deal with the fact that I might get raped and murdered on a regular basis despite gun law. As a matter of fact last summer there were 3 rapes within a 2 block radius of my house. One right below my bedroom window outside my backyard. Not once did it cross my mind that I needed a gun.

It sucks but I can deal with this.
 
Actually alanon he bought the first gun on Feb. 9th and the 2nd on March 13 and the a month later he did his shooting. He definately had this thing planned out way ahead of time.
 
Anyone who buys 2 handguns in 30 days should have an investigator knocking on their door within hours of the 2nd purchase.

After reading a bit more about the actual response from SWAT and other trained police I don't see how you can fault them. A call went out that 1 person was shot at around 7:15am and investigators were there within 15mins. This call by itself is not enough to bring out the SWAT teams because of two reasons, they didn't know who did it and they wouldn't want to alarm the whole school and cause a 10,000 person anarchy, and it would be a lot easier for the shooter to escape in all the confusion. However the SWAT team was notified and ready to respond. At 9:45am when the shooter began his 30 person rampage the police and swat were at the building within 5mins, but the shooter killed himself before they got to him.

I have to imagine that the shooter knew there was a police presence and he would be caught quickly when he started opening fire. Imagine how many more might have been killed if the police were not there so quickly after he began shooting the second time.

I can't find a way to blame law enforcement on this one, unless there is some evidence out there that contradicts the timeline that I have read.
 
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Actually alanon he bought the first gun on Feb. 9th and the 2nd on March 13 and the a month later he did his shooting. He definately had this thing planned out way ahead of time.

Is that what it was? I was told March 13th and Apr14th. Feb9th is almost worse.
 
After reading a bit more about the actual response from SWAT and other trained police I don't see how you can fault them. A call went out that 1 person was shot at around 7:15am. This call by itself is not enough to bring out the SWAT teams because of two reasons, they didn't know who did it and they wouldn't want to alarm the whole school and cause a 10,000 person anarchy, and it would be a lot easier for the shooter to escape in all the confusion. However the SWAT team was notified and the police were dispatched. At 9:45am when the shooter began his 30 person rampage the police and swat were in the building within 5mins, but the shooter killed himself before they got to him.

I have to imagine that the shooter knew there was a police presence and he would be caught quickly when he started opening fire. Imagine how many more might have been killed if the police were not there so quickly after he began shooting the second time.

I can't find a way to blame law enforcement on this one, unless there is some evidence out there that contradicts the timeline that I have read.

Absolutely agree 100%
 
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