ONLINE GIL SELLER BUSTED

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Good work Shayla, you are official "underground operative" of the very covert Gil-Police ^^

Thank you for your efforts :)
 
xKronox said:
[...] but it is against TOS, and it is also illegal, violating copyright laws, Using someone else's product to sell, without rights or permission! [...] lets band together as a community and fight this!
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It is against the TOS. It's not violating copyright laws, because the people who sell in game items do acknowlegde that the items belong to whomever runs the game, they are merely asking for compensation of their time investment. Basically they are selling a service, not goods.

The thought of banding together is a neat idea, but what exactly do you propose players do?
 
asiamise said:
With 700+ members on this board I'd say thats raising awareness pretty well :) What can we do against it? Camp their NM's using DRG and mess up their targeting while mages heal them to do the same, steal their mobs. these are things not considered against the TOS and are basically exactly what they do to us. If you see an item in AH you want, but the price list reflects a flood of sales from a supposed gil-farmer, go to a different kingdom to buy your item.

The last thing we want is to use immature, harrassing tactics against them,
play it smart and beat them at their own game.
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Hows that for a start? :)
 
Sure, but is this really going to happen?

Gil-farmers are there 24/7. What are the chances that a party of regular players will take time out of their XPing, questing, and farming, to sit there and mess up a gil-farmers day on a regular basis?
 
In Lineage 2 it was 20 times worse than in this game. Right before I quit it wasn't uncommen for some players to have two characters. One mid-high lvl to PK the farmers for several hours and one to play within the rules of the game.
 
Thanks asiamise.

If anyone has any suggestions on what questions to ask these gil farmers. I can't get the company name that they work for. But any suggestions are more than welcome.
 
Sculli said:
Sure, but is this really going to happen?

Gil-farmers are there 24/7. What are the chances that a party of regular players will take time out of their XPing, questing, and farming, to sit there and mess up a gil-farmers day on a regular basis?
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Good point :) I dont expect people to take any of their play time for this if they dont want to, although you would be suprised at the amount of people that would get a kick out of it.

It doesnt really take much, for ex: if running through Jugner just travelling
you come across a suspected gil-farmer, why not train a couple of tigers near him and then lay waste to them? True, it only offsets them for a few minutes, but it is something.

There is always choosing to buy your items elsewhere than where this gil-farmer has them listed.

And in the case of messing up their NM claims, a group of 2 or 3 friends with nothing to do could always kill 2 birds with one stone:
screwing up the gil-farmers day and splitting the loot if the NM drops.

I dont think it will ever be stopped, but every little bit helps. Maybe even eventually some of these gil-farmers will move on to other things.
If some of these farmers are truly doing this as a job they may become frustrated by the other players messing up their "work", and quit.
who knows? I sure as hell don't, however I'm willing to at least do something against it.
 
Shayla said:
If anyone has any suggestions on what questions to ask these gil farmers. I can't get the company name that they work for. But any suggestions are more than welcome.
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Well, I am gonna bet anything they work for IGE. Whenever you do talk to them again, just somehow weave IGE into the conversation.

Not that it would help any to know who they work for. Even if you somehow convince a GM that the person is indeed a gil farmer, what are they gonna do? I mean it's not against the TOS to farm stuff, everyone else does it, and to prove that the farmer is selling gil will be tricky, because technically the person who controls the toon isn't selling the gil. He's transfering it to someone else who does the selling.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but seeing that selling virtual property is a multi-million dollar business, it is very unlikely that any effort will ever be more than a drop on a hot stone.

Publishers are the ones who can fix stuff by making the game unattractive to resellers, but that will never happen, because the same measures who will prevent the work of resellers, will also hurt the average Joe who doesn't have the time to spend 40 hours a week playing an online game.
 
A GM will NEVER come in response to gil-farming, they dont care at all, and Ive come to accept that it will never stop. But Im gonna do what I can to make their job's more difficult, thats for damn sure ^^

This is just merely a call to other players, If you would like to mess them up out of principal, go for it! I do, and to anyone who dislikes gil-sellers, it is quite fun to mess them up. The more we know of them and their names, the better our cause.

I personally would back out of a pt if I saw a recognized gil-seller in the roster. I also have, and will again, travel elsewhere to get an item if I see one of their names listed many times in history. And as soon as one of my jobs is uber, I will camp their NM's. Not just because Im obsessive, but so I can take the item to AH and sell it or use it, and keep the gil in-game, where it belongs.
 
Sculli said:
Well, I am gonna bet anything they work for IGE. Whenever you do talk to them again, just somehow weave IGE into the conversation.

Not that it would help any to know who they work for. Even if you somehow convince a GM that the person is indeed a gil farmer, what are they gonna do? I mean it's not against the TOS to farm stuff, everyone else does it, and to prove that the farmer is selling gil will be tricky, because technically the person who controls the toon isn't selling the gil. He's transfering it to someone else who does the selling.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but seeing that selling virtual property is a multi-million dollar business, it is very unlikely that any effort will ever be more than a drop on a hot stone.

Publishers are the ones who can fix stuff by making the game unattractive to resellers, but that will never happen, because the same measures who will prevent the work of resellers, will also hurt the average Joe who doesn't have the time to spend 40 hours a week playing an online game.
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Sculli-
I agree with you that publishers have to take care of this, but like you said, highly unlikely. And I wouldn't want to spend 40 hours just playing an online game.

I do agree with asiamise that spreading the word around about this gil merchants. I hope this information will help people out to avoid supporting things that they don't approve of.

I thank you for your insight and opinion. I will continue to investigate, while I mine, because it impacts me, and every other player out there that mines for their gil. And maybe the next step for me is to send a communication to IGE, if and when I establish a admitance of working for that company.
 
Shayla said:
And maybe the next step for me is to send a communication to IGE, if and when I establish a admitance of working for that company.
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Heh, made me chuckle ..., what are you going to tell them?
Stop making thousands of dollars in profit every month, because it affects my gameplay negativly?

Have a look at IGE.com, they sell thousands of dollars worth of stuff on a monthly basis, they have millions of gil botted, duped, farmed, whatever.

Taking to them is a waste of time, they will pin your email up at the cafeteria news board and have a good laugh every time they walk by.

What really needs to happen is that if the publishers won't code a game that prevents reselling of items, then they need to take big business operations like IGE to court, and sue them under the DMCA for copyright violation.

However, I really believe that they would have done that already if they would see a chance of success.

I am not saying "don't do it", I am just pointing out that the impact of it will be zero. Again, in a way that is because in FFXI there are no strong communities like say in EQ. In EQ the warrior class organized a stand-in across all servers because they wanted SOE to fix their class. One day thousands of players across all servers showed up at the same time in one zone, and made their voice heard, and it worked to a degree.

Something like that is extremely unlikely to happen in FFXI. Between a million different community boards, and many of the "FFXI generation" not being message board fanatics anyway, the "movement" is just spread too thin.

Go into EQ, and ask any player when they visited their class board the last time. Chances are better than 50/50 that they will say something along the lines of "today" or "a couple days ago".

Maybe that is also because some FFXIer's are console players, who maybe tend to communicate less by means of message boards and such.

In addition I have found that some console players have a different outlook on games. It's like "it is what it is", while PC players are more like "patch it".
 
Dude lets all go to where the foxes camp the nm, somewhere in middle defkaults tower, like 100 of us, and just screw with them, hahaha.
 
asiamise said:
ultraseven said:
but these ppl AREN'T shitting on your porch. they're collecting ONLINE GIL as a type of way to make a living. so no need for analogy if we already know what the case is. and i also understand that whole "against the TOS" whatever. but believe me, there are a lot WORSE things ppl can break or go against than video rules. and i know it "seems" like i'm supporting it, but i'm really not. i'm just not "bitching" or "complaining" about gil farmers/sellers. all i can say is, when i'm done with the FFXI phase, i DO plan on selling my video game crap for REAL LIFE MONEY.
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I am neither bitching or complaining ultra, Im just promoting awareness to an issue that affects us. That is in the end, what this forum is for.....discussion.

Also....they're collecting ONLINE GIL as a type of way to make a living.
That is exactly the point, its wrong. Im not out to burn their house down, hell, I wish I could earn a living playing this :) My major beef is with Squeenix for not doing jack shit about it.

As far as selling your account when done, go for it! someone purchasing your account does not harm us in any way, and its a great way to get something back for all the hours you put in.
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Cause people buying accounts and barely knowing how to play the game for the most part doesn't hurt the people they would party with at all...
 
Selling gil online to feed family = illegal in copyright laws,
Selling crack on streets to feed family = illegal in state laws,

All in all its all illegal and hurts a CERTAIN community, Gil hurt ffxi community, crack hurts a countries community, tada, lol. Wrong is wrong,
 
OMFG, don't even get me started on petitionsonline.com, that's got to be one of the most misleading websites ever, worst part is, signing petitions on there accomplishes nothing, it would be more effective to write an open letter, place it in a thread, and contact other POL comminity sites to support it.

In addition that petition is unfortunately worded, because gil farmers pay subscriptions fees as well, and again, as long as they don't sell gil, but the service of farming it, there is very little that can be done legally to stop it.

Putting an end to gil farming is a design problem, not a policy problem.
 
Sculli said:
OMFG, don't even get me started on petitionsonline.com, that's got to be one of the most misleading websites ever, worst part is, signing petitions on there accomplishes nothing, it would be more effective to write an open letter, place it in a thread, and contact other POL comminity sites to support it.

In addition that petition is unfortunately worded, because gil farmers pay subscriptions fees as well, and again, as long as they don't sell gil, but the service of farming it, there is very little that can be done legally to stop it.

Putting an end to gil farming is a design problem, not a policy problem.
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Thanx Sculli :) I had no idea of this sites utter worthlessness :(
 
asiamise said:
Sculli said:
OMFG, don't even get me started on petitionsonline.com, that's got to be one of the most misleading websites ever, worst part is, signing petitions on there accomplishes nothing, it would be more effective to write an open letter, place it in a thread, and contact other POL comminity sites to support it.

In addition that petition is unfortunately worded, because gil farmers pay subscriptions fees as well, and again, as long as they don't sell gil, but the service of farming it, there is very little that can be done legally to stop it.

Putting an end to gil farming is a design problem, not a policy problem.
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Thanx Sculli :) I had no idea of this sites utter worthlessness :(
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Oh, not THIS site, the petitiononline site :wink:
 
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