Overpopulation

Grandphoenix

Godly God
Adventurer
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
1,859
Age
36
Location
Arlington
Main Job
Scholar-Male
Secondary Job
WhiteMage-Male
Third Job
RedMage-Male
Server
Quetzalcoatl
Linkshell
Ragnarok~AkaiTenshi
FFXIV
Grandphnx
Reading the 8year old shoots his dad w/e thread made me think of the population when Mirewen stated "1 unnecessary death is too many, regardless of the size of the population."

It made me think of what happens when the global population grows so large that people are going to have to be killed off, if not by famine or wars over land/food, would people volunteer their lives to try and sustain life?

I'm not an expert by any means but I have a general idea of Malthus' theories and they seem like they are slowly coming closer to reality than anyone would want to believe.

In all honesty, even though it's tragic when nature destroys many's homes and lives, I really think it's necessary by natural law, If World War III doesn't kill us all or destroy the entire planet in the process, I think the post war era might be some of the calmest times Earth has seen in a while.
 
It's strange you bring this up. I was talking with a close friend and I kind of brought something like this up with her tonight.

Quoted from me:
"well, i don't know about that nessicarily. But I feel there is a balance to most things. Life is one of those things you know, its balance is death. I feel like for the longest time as a nation we just kept increasing our numbers... and.. I know this doesn't sound good at all.. infact its quite horrible for me to even say it, but perhaps the war and all that happened to lead up to it was just a way of balancing things.."

I hope that's not taken the wrong way. In no way was the loss of life that happened a good thing or even remotely to be look at as a positive. But, we have lost so many lives in this stupid war for revenge, that it isn't even plausible that we've accomplished any real good. Even so, we've grown so large as a nation (USA) that, somehow something like this just seemed bound to happen in order to keep the lives of many from continuing to grow even larger.

Not that that's stopped anything really, but it was a brief dent in the span of time and space that so many lives were lost for seemingly nothing, at least nothing really all that important. It may have once stood for something profound, but that has since been lost. In the heart of it all, it was rather meaningless yet needed.

I have a strong feeling I'm totally going to get shit on for even saying this. But, oh well. >< That's life.
 
Yeah, I mean it's hard to discuss this subject without having people saying "omg you're cold hearted and no one should die" but in actuality it seems to me people need to die from other things than just old age.

Also, if there ever was some "fountain of youth" type thing or even the stuff Aubrey de Gray is working on then we would need to stop child production most certainly if people weren't dying no?
 
War would be inevitable. With so many people consuming so many lmited resources such as land, there is no way anyone on the planet could grow enough food for its country, much less export any out to support another, and if it comes to that, those who can afford to do so will be asking extremely high prices for the food and it would result in a long debate about monopolism etc... Sooner or later other countries are gonna have enough and a war is going to get started, many people will die from all sides, the population of the world as an etirity will take a pretty big dent.

You can't stop the inevitable, you can just hope to not have to face it in your lifetime, or that of your childrens.
 
I have a friend that looks just like Aubrey de Gray...yeah, he's goofy lookin.



Anyways, I've been talking about this on and off with some of my friends lately too. Let me start by saying that I think there are WAAAAYYY too many people on this planet. I think the human race would function much better with maybe 10 million of us spread out over the planet. For starters, there would be alot less rules. More and more rules and laws are being made every day to accomodate a growing population. I'm not sure why it works this way, but the more people you have, the more rules you need to keep them all in line. Secondly, I think that with not as many people around, we wouldn't have the technology we have today. I think part of the reason we've developed the technology we have lately is that we have alot more people to work on it. Think about it. 5 scientists working on a project as opposed to 50. The group of 50 is gonna get alot more done in a shorter amount of time. I also think technology adds to the rule making. The more things we have, the more laws we need to tell us how and when and where to use those things. Henry Ford invents the car. Now we have 50 million rules telling us how to drive one. Another thing, if there weren't as many people, we wouldn't even NEED some of the technology we have. We also wouldn't have enough people to operate all that technology. We wouldn't have enough people to run things like factory's and power plant's, but we also wouldn't need as much of those things either.

Think about it. If all of a sudden everyone but 10 million of us, spread out evenly across earth, disappeared, this would be a completely different world. I could grow pot in the backyard and no one would give a flying fuck. I could drive 116 (cause that's all the faster my car goes; ; ) down the interstate and probably never see another car on the road. I'm not saying we'd go totally back to the stoneage, but I do think with a major sudden decrease in population, we would have to revert to some old ways. We'd grow/hunt our own food, make our own shit(clothes, weapons, etc.), and most importantly, make our own laws. With the knowledge we humans possess today, it would be far easier to live a life like I'm talking about, as opposed to 3-400+ years ago when they lived that life.
...
I don't know where I was going with this anymore. I think I said everything I meant to say. A bit of an unorganized ramble I know, but, think about it for a bit. Personally, I would be MUCH happier in a world like I'm talking about. I think it would be easier. I think people would have more free time to do whatever they pleased. I think we'd all be alot happier. You wouldn't have to worry about putting in an 8 hour+ workday every single day, day in, day out, for the rest of your fuckin life. You'd find a nice piece of land somewhere, build your house, and then the only real thing you gotta worry about is eating enough food everyday to survive. That sure as shit don't take 8 hours a day, every day.



Alright, I guess now I'm done. In closing - bring on the horrific monster attacks or natural disaster that kills 90% of the world.
 
Last edited:
I was speaking about this with a buddy. While I agree with most of what you are saying, I think it really boils down to this one fact. The worst desicion we ever made was cancelling the space program. We have two choices: 1) War with Famine, 2) Figure out a way to get people off this rock.

Also, while we are speaking like cold-hearted bastids, I would add the fact that modern medicine is only making this problem worse.
 
Last edited:
See I believe that this earth has defense mechanisms in place for these occurrences. AIDS, Cancers.. famines, droughts are all a part of a greater power, mother nature. I believe the ice age was a cleansing that she brought on to wipe the current "plagues" at that time.

It won't happen in my life time, maybe not even my children's or grandchildren.. but she will cleanse her skin again.

Just my opinion, no hard facts to back any of it, just a feeling.
 
See I believe that this earth has defense mechanisms in place for these occurrences. AIDS, Cancers.. famines, droughts are all a part of a greater power, mother nature.


I thought you said AIDS, Cancers.. famines, doughnuts.... lol I was like wow I didn't think doughnuts where THAT bad for you!!

But all in all, as horrific and terrible disasters are, I have to agree that it does play a part in population control. I've thought for a long time now that we're quickly becoming overpopulated, but I think it's a matter of time one way or the other it will be taken care of.
 
Overpopulation is already a problem. And I've talked about it a lot with friends and family.

Here's the thing though. A lot of scientists believes we'd reach overpopulation by the year 2000. However, they failed to take in to consideration agricultural research etc. Now we genetically manipulate harvests and animals in to producing more food in the same span, thus making it possible for a larger population to survive on pretty much the same harvest.

This is something scientists often make progress in, and as we speak, research is also being done on cloning food in order to produce more of it. If you could grow meat that is not attached to an animal and a laboratory, and also speed up the growing process, you could provide a lot of people with food, that might eventually not only cost less to produce, but also require less energy to produce. One kilogram of meat requires 15000 litres of water to produce, and a handful ton of food, for the, say, cow to reach an agreeable size to then slaughter.

Additionally, every step in the food chain lose 90% of the total energy produced just to power itself. A nice comparison is cars, where 90% of its total energy consumption is used to cancel out the effect of gravity, friction and air pressure (or whatever its called). This is why the food chain rarely exeeds 4 steps, as the energy provided from the food in the end is minimal, and why the animals at the top pf the food chain is rarely used as a food source by another animal.

That is why if everyone would be vegeterians, the earth could support almost 10x the population it could currently support, simply because vegetables provide us with more energy then meat do. However, that theory is slightly flawed, as this would also mean we as humans would need to spread out over a larger area, and thus we would be unable to grow enough food to support our entire population.

If we could scientifically clone our food, and produce it that way, then we could support a much larger population. However, it requires a significant amount of progress, as it is currently extremely cost inefficient to clone food. Not only that, it is also somewhat unethical, and most consider it morally wrong. There's also the issue of whether it would taste the same or not. Would you pick up a pack of cloned meat over normal meat if you went out shopping?

Anyway, nature have many ways of preventing a population of ANY animal to become too large. Ants have a special type of fungus that infects the ants and is capable of making a whole hive extinct.

When a population of an animal becomes too large, it also makes it more prone to infections and diseases. When we're close together, it increases the risk a pandemic will strike and kill us, as many people together means it have more places to spread, especially if it is airborne. More people also means it have more possible hosts to mutate in and become more dangerous and deadly. This is especially the case as we spend a lot of time close together with animals.

HIV, for example, originally developed from a monkey-virus called SIV. SIV in and by itself is rather harmless to humans, but as a new possible host were introduced to the mix, it mutated and became HIV. The virus itself is pretty much exactly the same, but has evolved to infect a new host. As most animals don't live in as large groups as we do, and the fact that most species are older then us, the viruses and the host have evolved to compliment each other nicely. It is not beneficial for a virus to kill its host, as it it requires a host to live, and spread to new hosts. Most animals, trhourh evolution, have a immune system capable of handling the diseases, but we as humans don't. So when a disease mutate and infects us humans, it is far more deadly to us then it is for the animal it originated from.

SIV and HIV, for example, have kind of a suction cup that floats around inside it. When it reaches a cell, it attaches to it, and attracts the other suction cups to hook on to the cell as well. It then sends it RNA inside of the cell, and the cell is then infected. Some other bacteria and virus work in a more subtle way, and sinks together. When it reaches a cell, it moves in close to it, which causes the cell to protect itself by building a kind of bubble around itself, which also happens to surround the virus. It then proceeds to turn itself inside out, which sends a lot of tis own RNA inside the cell.

Others take a more simple approach and just pumps the RNA inside the cell, like a reverse mosquito.

Either way, my point is, with a larger population, it gives various diseases time to evolve and adjust, and thus kill a larger population.

The second way nature controls population is through homosexuality. While there's not a lot of strong evidence towards it, there is evidence that show heavily populated areas have a larger homosexual population. While it can be due to other reasons, such as homosexuals from other parts of the country move there to more easily find a partner, it is still interesting.

The last reason, which almost exclusively apply to humans, is that there's no real natural selection. Heart diseases such as stroke are genetically passed on to kids, which means a larger and larger population are born with, or are more prone to get, heart diseases which causes them to die prematurely. As there's evidence that show some forms of cancer are genetically passed on to kids as well, such as breast cancer, a larger part of the population will develop these types of cancer. And as there's no natural selection to prevent these genes from being passed onwards, humans "devolve" in a way, which can be seen as a kind of population control. However, due to medical breakthroughs, these no longer kill us at a rate they should, so we've found our own way around it. It is still a form of population control, only one that don't work due to our intelligence.
 
This makes me think of that "save the polar bears" commercial I see on TV all the time for WWF. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE animals... my house is practically a zoo. We keep talking about declining animal populations and save this animal, save that animal, such and such animal is on the verge of extinction/becoming endangered. They were discovered in 1776, who knows how long they existed before that, but the bear family has existed for tens of millions of years.

What makes people think that this planet is static and unchanging? You'd think they would learn from this planets history and see that there is no way things aren't going to continue to change, albeit, gradually?

I believe that people will over populate this planet one day, use up every last resource, and kill ourselves off. The reason being, that humans think they are above everything. They think "live and let live", not "live and let die." Death is a natural process, it needs to happen. I wish everyone would get themselves set up with a living will. That way, the grieving folk won't keep the hopeless on life support long past their time.

And uh, thats my mini rant >.> I hope I made some sense.
 
I'm not much into conspiracy theories but maybe the government has kept the cure for cancer (look at how much money is put into research every year) away from people because if eveyone was to live longer how could the government pay off all pentions, have jobs for everyone, produce enough food, etc. Sure they have somethings to fight cancer but so many people still die.
 
For the actual topic:

http://www.vhemt.org/

I too have heard about the disappearing male theory, though I heard it was widespread among all animals and not just humans. Also, genetically speaking, its harder to make a male. Y-Chromosome carrying sperm are generally weaker and more likely to uh, perish along the way. Not to mention the fact that we're all conceived female and it takes a lot of energy to make that change.

I'm not much into conspiracy theories but maybe the government has kept the cure for cancer (look at how much money is put into research every year) away from people because if eveyone was to live longer how could the government pay off all pentions, have jobs for everyone, produce enough food, etc. Sure they have somethings to fight cancer but so many people still die.

I also am not into conspiracy theories but I do believe there is one. Anyone can tell you that the rates for cancer are extremely high (Around 1 in 3 will get cancer according to Cancer Society, though I feel this is a bit exagerated). However, do you ever notice that hardly any celebrities ever die of cancer, and the ones who announce they have cancer to the public always beat it, except the really old ones.
 
I heard on some TV show once that when making love in bed, if a male partner thinking about wanted a male baby, there is a greater chance of giving birth to a male baby... but i'm not sure is that true or not...


Oh, don't worry about natural diseaster help reducing human overpopulation... Once we in a star trek age, no need to worry about limited lands and resources.

Find new planets, fly there, lived there :P :dur:
 
I think scientifically most cultural theories have been disproved such as having sex outside on a hot day etc.
 
I think scientifically most cultural theories have been disproved such as having sex outside on a hot day etc.


Well Sperm is have 1/2 of the male Genes, and also a living things, i'm theorizing w/e you processed in the brain, it release chemical, and that chemical (like a chemical thinking about making male baby) will be traveled to the sperm, and the sperm is focusing on making a male baby when it react to the egg?
 
I think scientifically most cultural theories have been disproved such as having sex outside on a hot day etc.

The "Heir and Spare" complex of male lined monarchies have inspired some really retarded 'ways' to produce boys.

Only sure way to guarantee the sex of your baby is to choose it.
 
When it comes to natural selection there is no such thing as survival of the fittest anymore (due to wealth and assistance). But if it were to come to "killing off" people, it would more than likely be people who are seen as a strain on the economy or the people around them. This would probably result in involuntary euthanizing, (putting people to death against their will).

Luckily Canada doesn't have this problem (as of yet) our population continues to stay stagnant or decrease. Although, the more overpopulated other countries will get, the more you will see people flocking here.
 
Luckily Canada doesn't have this problem (as of yet) our population continues to stay stagnant or decrease. Although, the more overpopulated other countries will get, the more you will see people flocking here.

Canada in general not so much. However, the immigration here is WAY THE FUCK out of control.

Caucasian families vs minority families is decreasing at an alarming rate to the point.. to the point where it's been said "we're just handing over our cities", that from multiple friends/family/acquaintances.

The cost of housing is increasing due to 8+ person families moving into one residence and yet they're still erecting housing (the cookie cutter town-homes) in every direction to house the people in our cities.

We will over populate ourselves for damn sure. We're no where near as bad as other countries.. but (much) sooner than later we may very well be.

I know it's ignorant to say everyone should pretty much stay where they were born, but with the way things are heading it may be a survival tactic lol

We will run out of resources :( I sometimes think bringing a child into this world (as cliché as it sounds) WOULD be cruel.
 
I agree with the immigration thing. Not to sound crass but some countries have a limit as to how many children 1 family can have for a reason. I live in Vancouver and there are more people that speak Chinese where I work than English.
 
Back
Top