Pandemonium Warden medical ward.

Have you guys even read the other PW threads?

No, the reason they came back wasn't that the tank was too far away. If you engage PW, the lamps will share hate with PW. However, pulling the lamps themselves don't make them share hate with PW, which means they can safely be pulled 1 by 1 while another person kites the gears, which is how all the other groups have killed them.

The gears themselves are actually pretty weak. However, since they have Regain, or possibly share TP, that means taking on all at the same time is very deadly.

Really, if you had that many BLM's, I think it would be more beneficial to kite the gears and have the BLM's snipe them with AM2 or T4.

edit: also, the gears easily lose interest in whoever is currently attacking it.
 
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links would be beneficial

i only read wiki and the different forms about it at work, I admit I didn't know much about the nm in question
 
This is exactly why I never participate in threads here anymore. Everyone thinks they know everything about the game without actually doing it because that's what they were told. Experimentation? Making up new theories? That's for people who "didn't read" (which of course we did, but heaven forbid we try something new!). Fuck this "End-Game Discussion" board, I'm done talking to all you dipshits here.
 
Rappa said:
This is exactly why I never participate in threads here anymore. Everyone thinks they know everything about the game without actually doing it because that's what they were told. Experimentation? Making up new theories? That's for people who "didn't read" (which of course we did, but heaven forbid we try something new!). Fuck this "End-Game Discussion" board, I'm done talking to all you dipshits here.
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I tend to agree with you. People aren't allowed to have new theories. If they do, those theories are immediately shot down.

On a side note, my
34k xp loss was worth it
 
I have nothing against trying something new. However, you said that the tanks probably pulled hate because they cured themselves, while they actually share hate with PW. That is what I pointed out.

If I were to make a strategy I would make the strategy around what is known about PW.

For example, he pulls in, so you can't kite him far. However, as the gears share hate with him, straight-tanking him is out of the question. Which of the two, or an approach in-between, would be best, is the first thing you need to figure out.

Personally, I'm going to go with the kiting one. However, I suppose a PLD/RDM diaga > Invincible with BLM's nuking could work too. However, as you'd need 1 for each form, that is pretty much not an alternative. Either way, if you've ever done Salvage, you'd know that the more people are on a gear, the worse it will be to kill. Unless you can kill it in one volley with BLM's, the gears will likely all use AoE's and kill you. With 10% TP per nuke, all of the BLM's would need to do 1k+ damage each with their ga3's in order to avoid that, or you run the risk of getting brutally raped.

That is why, for all intents and purposes, kiting the gears and have someone pull a single gear back that the BLM's can nuke, is in my opinion the best approach.

PW itself is, as you discovered yourselves, rather weak while not his true self. The only tricky part is handling his lamps.

Either way, the second part would then be the true PW form. At 75% he uses Astral Flow, at which point he will summon 8 lamps that each will take the form of an Avatar, and will proceed to Astral Flow every person with hate on him. The easiest way I can think of to overcome this would be to either have half the alliance /logout, have a second alliance standing by to engage him.
 
you lost that much? ouch >,>

i didn't regret keeping it doted for alliances to unweaken either it was fun, still discussion should continue and not let one random person take away people away from the content here
 
If he engaged PW himself, then no, it wouldn't do much for hate sicne they share hate with PW.

Either way, I do think it would be much more beneficial for the discussion itself if you actually posted the strategy you used.
 
Uzor said:
Either way, the second part would then be the true PW form. At 75% he uses Astral Flow, at which point he will summon 8 lamps that each will take the form of an Avatar, and will proceed to Astral Flow every person with hate on him. The easiest way I can think of to overcome this would be to either have half the alliance /logout, have a second alliance standing by to engage him.
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This is wrong it's not 8lamps taking form of an avatar it's 8 lamps + 8 avatars.
 
the strat

blms would aga the lamps on pop at the same time and kill lamps

melee would finish what was leftover

plds would be tanking and sam/thf would be wsing along with smn bp damage

lather rinse and repeat until final form

rdm, blu, and nin would hold lamps and pull them away while alliance went balls to wall on PW
 
Uzor said:
If he engaged PW himself, then no, it wouldn't do much for hate sicne they share hate with PW.

Either way, I do think it would be much more beneficial for the discussion itself if you actually posted the strategy you used.
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He wasn't engaged with PW. Jamal was tanking it separately.
I don't even think there was a "strategy" given it degenerated very quickly because the lamps were running around with random targets. AoE tore shit up.

On paper, what we wanted to do was have a puller aggro the lamps and pull them to the BLM team to nuke while PW was being held. In practice, the BLM's didn't get their timing down or didnt enough damage in order to down the gears. To my knowledge, there wasn't a single target specified with them.

After the pull, people would engage and take down the gears. They were squishy, but ran into trouble with them using AoE.
 
When I say engaged, I meant having done any action to him. Be if Flash, Provoke, Dia, Slow, Sleep etc.

I admit, -ga ing the gears can work, and is probably the overall fastest and safest. However, I don't think it would work very well with the number of BLM's you had at your disposal. Granted, at least now you know next time that you need more, which you wouldn't have known had you not tried, but I'm kind of amazed at how you had 53 people, but yet only 7 BLM's. Knowing that each lamp has 10k HP, and each Blizzaga III do roughly 800 damage per gear unresisted, that's at least 9 BLM's, assuming each BLM get unresisted.
 
Neisan said:
Shmed was Pld/blm, said sleepga for hate wasn't working well.
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If he was going by what i said in another thread, sleepga would only be to actually make an action on every target, then proceed to build hate with cures and ja's. Sleepga in itself wont build enough hate. Although, the reason i said blm in that case is cause it was dynamis and you dont wanna diaga or banishga the mobs to wake them up/make em unsleepable. Could just aswell use /rdm or /whm here and get some magic defense bonus out of it and just use diaga to touch all the mobs.
 
pchan said:
This is not the same NM as you fought. IIRC the lamps had 50k HP and the hate system was different.
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Well, it kind of is actually. Just as AV is pretty much the same mob, except for having less HP, P is the same mob, except for having less HP and less transformations. The hate still works the same.

And yeah, its not the end-all guide for information (and I never said as such), but it is still a lot of good information to take in to consideration. And it leaves less room for experimentation, as you won't have to experiment with things that others already tried (such as CFH on him).

Caerloc said:
If he was going by what i said in another thread, sleepga would only be to actually make an action on every target, then proceed to build hate with cures and ja's. Sleepga in itself wont build enough hate. Although, the reason i said blm in that case is cause it was dynamis and you dont wanna diaga or banishga the mobs to wake them up/make em unsleepable. Could just aswell use /rdm or /whm here and get some magic defense bonus out of it and just use diaga to touch all the mobs.
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Yeah, I said as such earlier. It also means you can do Phalanx and Stonesking, albeit they probably won't help much. You'll need another tank for PW himself though, but that most likely isn't a problem anyway.
 
Caerloc said:
If he was going by what i said in another thread, sleepga would only be to actually make an action on every target, then proceed to build hate with cures and ja's. Sleepga in itself wont build enough hate. Although, the reason i said blm in that case is cause it was dynamis and you dont wanna diaga or banishga the mobs to wake them up/make em unsleepable. Could just aswell use /rdm or /whm here and get some magic defense bonus out of it and just use diaga to touch all the mobs.
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The trouble with this is that you also hit PW with the Aga which can lead to problems, for the second form i used Diaga (pld/rdm) to pull the gears away from PW, however, i fucked up (I know alot of you like to believe you're perfect, guess what, I'm not). I was unbuffed (SS Blink Phalanx wise) because when we were ready to engage the first form of PW, after the lamps were dead, he died much faster than i was expecting, a couple of nukes/WS was enough to kill him. I was unprepared for the next form so fast, i had to select Diaga from the menu as i wasn't expecting to be needed for this task, so didn't have it macro'd.

The plan was to Sentinel > Diaga, but because i was fumbling about with menus i threw the Diaga first (which hit all lamps and PW) I ran as far as possible before hitting Sentinel (it took a few seconds to activate, was fairly high lag) at this point i had all 8 lamps on me, while Jamal was tanking PW, however after i used Sentinel PW used draw in on me, and bearing in mind i was only at 400~ HP when i hit Sentinel it didn't take them long to kill me. This is when our next (and final) wipe began, the lamps gathered back around, and killed, Jamal then proceeded to tear through the rest of our alliances.

Diaga was enough to get hate from the 8 lamps and leave PW on Jamal, and if i'd sentineled before i had attacked them it likely would have gone differently, after this wipe a mistake was made between the people sacing PW to keep him up, and he depopped. Was i responsible for the final wipe? probably. But i learned from my mistakes and the next time we pop him i'll be sure not to repeat them.

Caerloc, he wasn't using Sleepga to keep hate, he was simply using it to pull the mobs away as initial hate, which i later replaced with Diaga (idk where Smed went i never saw him again after the first pull, he was in another alliance). I seem to remember you suggesting it for THF/BLM as a method to put TH on all mobs before a BLM ~aga kill, rather than PLD/BLM. I'm not even sure that's what gave Jamal the idea, but it could well have been.
 
bit off topic here about PW


doesn't it seem odd that it's considered unbeatable if it's forms except final(assuming more hp and stats) with more lamps are easy?

it seems more like an issue of skilled players and numbers imo the more you have the more likely you'll win and sending in another alliance after the first wipes to astral flow.

but then again there's the issue of how many people an ls can muster which imposes the difficulty if it wasn't then I'd assume there would be issues with dealing with drops
 
Lemme ask, why would you Sentinel > Diaga?

I'd think it would be much better to Diaga > Sentinel, both for hate purposes and defensive purposes. Diaga in itself doesn't produce a lot of hate, so Sentinel wouldn't really do anything for Diaga hate-wise...

And from your description, Jamal did tank PW, so he must have provoked or otherwise used an action on him. And as I said earlier, that's why the lamps went after him.

If you plan on using this approach, I'd think you need Jamal to provoke PW first (getting all of the gears on him), and as soon as he provokes or flashes PW, the lamp tank need to Diaga them and pull them back ASAP to the BLM's. As the lamps share hate with PW, they'll go back to Jamal soon as he use another action on PW or himself.

Thing is, you don't need to Diaga the lamps to pull them all back. You could simply ignore PW and pull one gear, causing all of them to follow you. Lamps won't share hate with PW if you pull the lamps as opposed to PW. At that point the BLM's can snipe the lamps, while some melee parties take other lamps and start killing them. You won't be able to -ga them since PW will probably follow, but you won't have to worry about the gears going back after the PW tank.
 
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I wasnt badgering anyone's effort. I was just going for what Hmkiro said and pointing out that that wasnt how i ment for PLD/BLM to be used.

However, looking at your problem, i have a few questions. Does PW and all the lamps pop claimed? In that case i would put jamal in popping alliance, tag PW and disband to another alliance, leaving you with your 8 claimed lamps, free to -ga and go nuts on hate without touching PW. It would be a problem if he continuosly spawned claimed lamps tho, but im assuming he doesnt.

If they dont spawn claimed, there should be no probelm to tag PW with one alliance and the lamps with another, a second after.

idk really tho, i intended to go there to watch if that was possible, but i wasnt online, so i dont really know to much about the fight, im just spitballing.
 
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