Just taken this from Tim's thread. Since I turned it into a bit of an essay and derailed it slightly, I thought I'd put it here to answer any future questions such as Tim's, or for just a general guide.
Note, that this is in relation to Sky only at the moment. If anyone is interested i'll gladly expand it to other areas too.
Have 3 basic setups. (There's room for a fourth if you have Atonement)
#1 Haste
#2 Enmity
#3 Shield #4 Atonement - Send me a PM if you have it, and i'll explain what it consists of
Pretty self-explanatory. You can be flexible with the sets, and incorporate shield skill into your haste setup where there's no Haste available, and vice versa
This is how and where the different setups are used as PLD/NIN:
Utsusemi: Ichi: Use your shield setup for this. Casting time is higher, so the chances of being attacked during it are higher than Ni. Also, due to it's naturally lower recast than Ni anyway, go full-out Shield skill while casting it. (No harm in putting in Haste where there's no shield skill available though, e.g. Swift belt.)
Utsusemi: Ni: Use your haste setup for this. Since your casting time is so small you shouldn't be blocking and thus shouldn't need the shield skill, so just use max haste. (No harm in equipping shield where you can't put haste though.)
Flash: High recast, low casting time. Treat this similar to Utsusemi: Ni, and go full-out haste. Unlike Ni though, you'll want to equip enmity where you can't put haste. You may choose to mix it up a bit more and use more enmity though, depending on what you're doing.
Cures: Cures III and IV both have low recast, and fairly low cast time. With these, equip full enmity and discard haste. The only thing to bear in mind with gear here is that you shouldn't be swapping out too much MP, if you are. As for where to use it, there should always be someone in need of curing, even if it's that BRD or BLM trying to get into low HP to activate their ring. Cure bomb at will, and have no mercy. In the unlikely event that there isn't someone to cure, you can make a HP down macro in order to let you cure yourself for some extra hate. As /NIN, it will be your most consistent hate tool.
Standing/idle: This depends greatly on what you're fighting, the gear you have available and whether or not you have Atonement. With regard to Sky, Byakko and Seiryu may be more taxing on your shadows, so you might want to idle in a mix of shield/enmity. With Genbu, Suzaku and any straight-tanked trigger NMs, feel free to idle in Haste. They're not incredibly high evasion, and you're perfectly capable of dealing a little extra damage, even just from Spirits Within. If you have Atonement though, you can equip full haste with some Accuracy, and go for max TP gain. With double marches and haste, you can fire off a 750 damage Atonement fairly regularly. Not only is it fantastic for your hate, but it's also very respectable damage.
As for Kirin (or any other kiting) you'll want to idle in a hybrid set of HP, enmity and MDT/MDB. Kirin's breaths can deal very high damage if you're not careful, and if you're caught in a Stonega IV you'll be taking very high damage. Until you get WLegs, chances are that you'll be getting hit with a few Breaths during kiting, so it may be wise to idle in more HP than your normal set, coupled with MDT-% pieces and MDB to reduce damage taken from breaths/spells. If you're good with macros, you can switch in a full earth resist set for it's spells, though it's usually not worth it.
Here's some general pointers out of my own experience if you're interested. (Spoiler.)
Spoiler:
Watch your recasts. Refresh your shadows wherever possible, and keep up 3 shadows as often as you can. Even if you've only lost one, recast when it's safe to do so. If you're dual-tanking (which you probably will be in Sky) make sure you have 3 shadows up when the mob turns to you.
Also, try and get a feel for the delay between weapon skills from the mob. Once you get rolling and get a feel for the time-span between them, you can plan accordingly and prepare yourself. It's not an exact science, and doesn't have to be, but it can generally be quite predictable.
Most importantly, be aware of the others around you. THFs, /THFs and the other tank especially will be highly reliant on your positioning. Remember to keep still, and try not to grab hate while someone is preparing a SATA on you. Similarly, if someone's about to SATA the other tank, try to keep it's focus on you while he/she does so. For any job though, communication is key. If your buffs are off, let someone know. If your recasts are down, let the other tank know about it.
I'll take a shot at this since I'm still blood tanking almost everything at this point. Freaking long post incoming btw. I really want to have an another point of view on the sets I'm building right now for my /nin. There is items in there I don't have at the moment but they will be coming very soon that's mainly why I'm leaving my /nin in the closet right now.
I took into consideration Diabllos OP and the best of my knowledge on the subject before building those tentative sets but I have freaking long list of questions that I need answer before continuing and this thread seems the opportunity to ask those questions I've been asking to myself for a while . Please don't bash me if you think those questions are futile. I'm merely looking for vital informations and constructive opinions to play on /nin that's it.
My first question is about the weapon here. At this point I only have access to my Macuahuitl +1 since I don't want to drag ppl with me in SSG to kill PH for hours for Charyb but on /nin, is it making a huge difference if you're using a Joyeuse or a Macuahuitl +1? If Joyeuse is that good, I'll try to get some souls with me to go get one. If it's not mandatory but still a good alternative I'll just move it up a little in my priority list!
Second question, I put Acheron Shield up there, is it worth the TP loss when I swap for the Acheron Shield or should I stick with a Koenig Shield since my base Shield Skills would be hovering around 325 anyway?
Thirdly, How much Shield skill should I have to be comfortable with my shield set? I always considered 300 to be a sweet spot for it but the more I look into it, 325 seems to be more normal and effective in the long way.
Again, swapping the shield seems cool to squeeze 1% haste from it but is it worth the loss of TP? I would rather stick again with my Koenig Shield than screwing up my whole TP but, If I had a Joyeuse though, would it really matter if I would swap the shield or not since I would be probably building up TP faster than with my old Macuahuitl +1 too anyway. I'm just concerned about any Spirits Within / Chivalry that could be needed and I end up with absolutely no TP at all because I swapped shields around.
What can be considered as "sweet spot" in haste setup? In my eyes, 15% seems low but 20% seems kind of hard to get to also without sacrificing other important stats in the process even for 2 seconds.
Ok, that one, well, it's a bit messy. There is a lot of parameters that I don't know if I should consider or not. I know that I need max enmity if I can. I like the spell interruption rate but I don't want to give up the enmity. I don't want to lose MND on my head but I don't want to lose 2 enmity either. I don't know if I want to lose 3 MND for 1 enmity on my feet. Should I cut on some of my enmity gears to get, for example, my MND higher to get better cures out? Or is bigger cures better than enmity +2-3 in the long run when you fight gods/jailers/hnms?
I don't think I should have any problems with that one. Some enmity, shield, haste, -% dmg, +% movement speed, etc.. I can probably switch around some of those gears depending on the situations.
I don't have Atonement at this point so I don't have any build sets for it right now. Even though I would have it, I would probably consider Chivalry first and Spirits Within first (depending on the situation of course) before using it.
I thank you in advance guys to take the time to read this and state your opinions on the subject!
There's alot of questions there and i don't have long to type a reply, so i'll try to cover the basics i can see.
Without Atonement, Joytoy is not worth it, stick with Mac+1. Once you get Atonement, Joytoy is worth the investment.
Don't swap shields, it's not worth losing TP. Spirits within is still a valid WS, and chivalry is extremly useful.
18-20% haste is what you should be aiming for, Homam hands/legs/feet Wally turban Swift belt is 18%, Vbelt is 20%.
Curing, focus on enmity, cures have short recast times. Also, try to get shadows up before curing yourself so shield skill isn't needed.
For idle, i personally focus on -dmg% > refresh > haste > HP/MP.
When you get Atonement, you will want to use it whenever you have 100% TP, however, a 300% Spirit's within is still the best thing to open with as it takes time to build enmity for atonement to do the same thing.
I'll go through these in order, and I'll try not to re-cover the same things BW already said here. Also Trib., you might want to put your questions into spoilers to shortern it a bit -- that was a massive post, lol.
My first question is about the weapon here. At this point I only have access to my Macuahuitl +1 since I don't want to drag ppl with me in SSG to kill PH for hours for Charyb but on /nin, is it making a huge difference if you're using a Joyeuse or a Macuahuitl +1? If Joyeuse is that good, I'll try to get some souls with me to go get one.
Mac.+1 is your staple sword forever, and it's not often beaten. Keep it with you. Even with other superior swords available you'll always want to keep this for situations where you're not engaged, such as kiting. For the most part though, pre-Atonement you'll want to go for Mac+1 for everything you tank.
As for Joyeuse... I think you might have the wrong impression of this NM. You can park yourself there, solo PH's and wait for the pop, then bring out help. A MNK, NIN, PLD /RDM or /BLU can tank this quite easily, and a BRD using march/mambo makes it even easier. If you know a NIN/DNC or a decent RDM you could get it solo'd for you even. The drop is 100% and the spawn is 8 Hour+, which is far from painful. The zone is easy and you can wait there free of any aggro... I don't see the problem.
Second question, I put Acheron Shield up there, is it worth the TP loss when I swap for the Acheron Shield or should I stick with a Koenig Shield since my base Shield Skills would be hovering around 325 anyway?
PLD can't use Acheron Shield, or the HQ version. As BW said, don't swap out your sword/shield unless you're kiting. Keep on your Mac.+1/Koenig at all times otherwise. Just use M.Head, Glt. leggings (+1), Shield torque and Buckler earring in your shield setup (Knightly if you have one, but most choose Suppanomimi for it's better overall useability. Suppa. has it's uses for your Atonement setup anyway.)
Thirdly, How much Shield skill should I have to be comfortable with my shield set? I always considered 300 to be a sweet spot for it but the more I look into it, 325 seems to be more normal and effective in the long way.
Honestly, there's no harm in stacking as much as you can. The more the better. There is a cap, but it's irrelevant with the buyable/obtainable gear available.
(Haste) Again, swapping the shield seems cool to squeeze 1% haste from it but is it worth the loss of TP? I would rather stick again with my Koenig Shield than screwing up my whole TP but, If I had a Joyeuse though, would it really matter if I would swap the shield or not since I would be probably building up TP faster than with my old Macuahuitl +1 too anyway. I'm just concerned about any Spirits Within / Chivalry that could be needed and I end up with absolutely no TP at all because I swapped shields around.
As mentioned, you'll want to try to retain your TP where possible. Forget changing out your sword/shield while you're doing anything whereby you accumulate TP. No harm in doing this while kiting though.
What can be considered as "sweet spot" in haste setup? In my eyes, 15% seems low but 20% seems kind of hard to get to also without sacrificing other important stats in the process even for 2 seconds.
As stated previously, stack as much Haste available (within reason. I.e. TP loss discussion). Fast cast is available too from Loq. earring and Homam Cosciales, so use these where appropriate too. There's no real 'sweet spot' with Haste. Clearly the more you stack the better it is -- that's all that needs to be said there. From my guide though, you should be able to see where it's most appropriate to swap in your haste gear, and when to use more Shield/Enmity instead.
(Cures) There is a lot of parameters that I don't know if I should consider or not. I know that I need max enmity if I can. I like the spell interruption rate but I don't want to give up the enmity. I don't want to lose MND on my head but I don't want to lose 2 enmity either. I don't know if I want to lose 3 MND for 1 enmity on my feet. Should I cut on some of my enmity gears to get, for example, my MND higher to get better cures out? Or is bigger cures better than enmity +2-3 in the long run when you fight gods/jailers/hnms?
First off, toss out the MND. It has absolutely no bearing on your cures as PLD whatsoever. Secondly, as stated in my guide you'll want to stack just Enmity for your cures. They have naturally low cast/recast so Haste has very little effect (especially when you're already hasted/marched). The only other factor to consider is not to swap out too much MP (which I also stated in the guide).
Enmity has little-to-no bearing on the effectiveness of your idle setup, since this is the setup you'll be in when you're just meleeing. Cures, spells and JA's should be using gearswaps anyway. The focus as BW sort of stated should be damage reduction, MDB, HP/MP and Haste. WLegs (as the only movement enhancement piece for PLD) can be macroed in while kiting or moving from weapon skills (e.g. Dark Ixion and various Jailers), and need not be idled in while engaged (unless your only alternative is something like Adaman/IR, in which case idling in these is fine for the extra HP/MP).
I don't have Atonement at this point so I don't have any build sets for it right now. Even though I would have it, I would probably consider Chivalry first and Spirits Within first (depending on the situation of course) before using it.
After you get Atonement your entire idle setup can change -- and it's important to note that it will easily outdo Spirits 95% of the time. Of course if you build TP before a fight, you can open with Spirits (as Atonement becomes stronger with more enmity, which you'll need to accumulate).
That's what I get for having over 20 tabs open in between 2-3 notepads haha .
Seriously, thanks for the help for clarifying the things up guys, it's very appreciated. I took the time to read it and write some note in my little red notebook.
I'm still too low on the quantity of gears I have right now to do extraordinary things on /nin but I guess I'll be able to manage things for now.
That's what I get for having over 20 tabs open in between 2-3 notepads haha .
Seriously, thanks for the help for clarifying the things up guys, it's very appreciated. I took the time to read it and write some note in my little red notebook.
I'm still too low on the quantity of gears I have right now to do extraordinary things on /nin but I guess I'll be able to manage things for now.
No matter how good your gear is, if your skill and understanding of the job sucks then best you can be is average. All things considered, your supporting cast in your party probably matters more than your gear in most cases. Mistakes can be overcome, lack of teamwork cannot.
. Please don't bash me if you think those questions are futile. I'm merely looking for vital informations and constructive opinions to play on /nin that's it.
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