POL News: All Worlds Maintenance

Zerayla said:
My apologies, I misread what you posted.

And I understand that "3rd Party" means that it isn't SE, however the way that I was made to understand, is that SE designed it so that we would have to go through this "3rd party" in order to play the game, so they have the ability to get in touch with whom ever that is to have them resolve their problems.
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SE don't design the game so that it passes through a third party. We already explained that. Everything always passes through a third party. A company can't chose either which server it uses to go through
decidence said:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\decidence>tracert www.playonline.com

Tracing route to www.playonline.com [43.253.220.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 13 ms 14 ms 17 ms dIPMASKED.bchsia.telus.net [IPMASKED]
3 17 ms 18 ms 12 ms NWMRBC01DR02.bb.telus.com [IPMASKED]
4 16 ms 12 ms 12 ms vancbc01gr01.bb.telus.com [IPMASKED]
5 38 ms 37 ms 37 ms IPMASKED
6 37 ms 37 ms 38 ms IIJ.plalca01gr00.bb.telus.com [IPMASKED]
7 39 ms 37 ms 44 ms plt001bb01.IIJ.net [216.98.96.229]
8 136 ms 136 ms 138 ms tky001bb01.IIJ.net [216.98.96.194]
9 135 ms 136 ms 138 ms tky001ipgw11.IIJ.Net [210.130.143.250]
10 138 ms 135 ms 139 ms tky007gate00a.IIJ.Net [58.138.100.250]
11 140 ms 140 ms 140 ms 43.253.1.1
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 144 ms 145 ms 144 ms host220-30.accelia.net [43.253.220.30]

Trace complete.



SE's Fault
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No, that doesn't mean its SE's fault. It doesn't even give you a time out at SE's server. You need to trace it through 30 hops to find SE's server.

And Zereyla or whoever, they DID actually say the very same exact thing I've been saying. I didn't blame it on your ISP. I told you to call your ISP to get help with what you can do to trace the problem. And no, they didn't say it was their ISP. They, in fact, said it wasn't. Very same thing I said. They said it was a backbone that's messed up, and that she, nor you, can get any further informatino from it. So yes, its the very same thing I've bene sayign for pages.
 
"It isn't SE's fault". Ok.

"It isn't OUR fault". Ok.


We still have a problem, that many players are experiencing and I really can't see how it should be expected for us, the paying customers to be responsible in finding out how to correct the problem, when we played perfectly fine up until the update. SE is about to lose those paying customers because most of them aren't going to be capable, or willing to try and get in touch with whoever or whatever is responsible for the problems, and because its OUR money that they're receiving, you would think that they'd be intelligent enough to help assist their customers in resolving the problems. Any typical company with good ethics would do this, and I know this because I work as customer support and have been trained to help even when its not my area.

I'm not literate in any of the information that is being explained about the connectivity issues, but what I do know is I can't play the game i'm paying for and that does not sit well with me when i'm not the one at fault.

Also, I have gone through the hassle to call up my ISP and have them help me, and the only thing they were able to help with was changing my MAC address and IP address, which as I found out last night has only changed some of the areas I receive R0.
 
Zerayla said:
We still have a problem, that many players are experiencing and I really can't see how it should be expected for us, the paying customers to be responsible in finding out how to correct the problem, when we played perfectly fine up until the update. SE is about to lose those paying customers because most of them aren't going to be capable, or willing to try and get in touch with whoever or whatever is responsible for the problems, and because its OUR money that they're receiving, you would think that they'd be intelligent enough to help assist their customers in resolving the problems. Any typical company with good ethics would do this, and I know this because I work as customer support and have been trained to help even when its not my area.
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There is really nothing SE or your ISPs customer support can do to assist you directly in resolving this problem. The most you can do is report the problem to SE (who is more than aware of it) and to your ISP, which you have done. I do agree (I think it was you who made the post earlier) that SE (and to that extent the ISP effected by the problem) really need to be forth coming with information, so that customers are not having to read between the lines about what is being done to resolve the problem.

While it does seems like nothing is being done, I would be dumb founded and shocked if network engineers from SE and from your ISP have not already started troubleshooting routing issues and contacting uplinks (assuming this is a backbone issues) and as frustrating as it is, this type of problem unfortunately takes time to fix.

The only thing you can really do as a customer is either wait it out or cancel your account until they fix the problem.
 
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Bottom line is that it is SE's fault. They should have synchronized servers globally for each continent, with private backbones interconnecting them, tunneling between each continent with THEIR multiple ISP's, diverse backbones, and alternate routes. This is the way most large corporations operate for their own private infrastructure, why should SE be any different? Especially since their product is network based to begin with. I'm afraid to imagine how half ass their infrastructure must be, considering that EVERYONE has to connect directly to their servers in Japan for updates and to play this game. Peer to peer file distribution has been around for a long time. There is no reason why it takes 8 hours + to download 90 megs. NA players should be authenticating to NA servers, Japan players authenticating to Japan servers. Japan servers blow up, no problem, Japan players will be redirected to NA servers. NA servers blow up, no problem, NA players will be redirected to Japan servers. Transcontinental network pipes explode between Japan and NA, no problem, reroute through Europe. Archaic single point of failure architecture by SE is to be blamed here.
 
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phishn said:
Bottom line is that it is SE's fault. They should have synchronized servers globally for each continent, with private backbones interconnecting them, or tunneling between each continent with THEIR multiple ISP's, diverse backbones, and alternate routes. This is the way most large corporations operate for their own private infrastructure, why should SE be any different? Especially since their product is network based to begin with. I'm afraid to imagine how half ass their infrastructure must be, considering that EVERYONE has to connect directly to their servers in Japan for updates and to play this game. Peer to peer file distribution has been around for a long time. There is no reason why it takes 8 hours + to download 90 megs. NA players should be authenticating to NA servers, Japan players authenticating to Japan servers. Japan servers blow up, no problem, Japan players will be redirected to NA servers. NA servers blow up, no problem, NA players will be redirected to Japan servers. Transcontinental network pipes explode between Japan and NA, no problem, reroute through Europe. Archaic single point of failure architecture by SE is to be blamed here.
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did this make anyone else laugh?

Also to posters above, no it's not your fault. It's also not your responsibility. It's not SE's fault. It is their responsibility though. You guys make it sound like they are ignoring the problem. I'm positive they are working with the 3rd party providers to resolve this. There is no sense in them coming out and saying they are fixing it if they haven't traced the problem yet. If people were patient instead of constantly complaining about EVERYTHING se does, time would go by a lot faster. Is it really that hard to stay out of one or two zone for a week?
 
Yea it is SE's responsibility sorry to say, because they didn't spend enough money to run a MMO properly. They better make sure their second MMO doesn't suck balls.

PS: I haven't logged in for more then 1hr since the update and I haven't left Whitegate so I'm unsure if this is even affecting me.
 
Its not hard to stay out of a zone for a week, or two... however if we're not getting 100% of the product we're paying for, then a reimbursement needs to be made... however, we all know that even if it were SE's fault entirely, they would never give a reimbursement.

When a person is helpless to do anything about a problem, its natural to complain.
 
Why should that make you laugh? There is one way to do things, the right way. What makes me laugh is that everyone in the world has to reach Japan directly.
 
Zerayla said:
Its not hard to stay out of a zone for a week, or two... however if we're not getting 100% of the product we're paying for, then a reimbursement needs to be made... however, we all know that even if it were SE's fault entirely, they would never give a reimbursement.

When a person is helpless to do anything about a problem, its natural to complain.
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Or if you are not satisfied with the product or the quality of it, you can always just stop using that product.

And phisn or w/e:
It's funny how much you are underestimating the amount of information that needs to be stored, especially when most of it is updated every second. Having mirror server will result in more lag, and a lot more possibilities for errors. Imagine getting a kraken drop but it didn't get registered on the other server as you got rerouted to it? bam you have no kraken now.

I don't know what companies you think have their own infrastructures running between continents. Microsoft and Walmart don't, and they run the largest infrastructures in the world with centralized servers. I don't think you realize the amount of money it would cost to lay your own infrastructure between such a large distance. Nothing SE would be remotely able to afford.
 
Zerayla said:
Its not hard to stay out of a zone for a week, or two... however if we're not getting 100% of the product we're paying for, then a reimbursement needs to be made... however, we all know that even if it were SE's fault entirely, they would never give a reimbursement.

When a person is helpless to do anything about a problem, its natural to complain.
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Except when you do what I do and file a formal complaint against them and get 3 years of monthly service fees refunded to your Visa card.
 
Artem said:
Or if you are not satisfied with the product or the quality of it, you can always just stop using that product.

And phisn or w/e:
It's funny how much you are underestimating the amount of information that needs to be stored, especially when most of it is updated every second. Having mirror server will result in more lag, and a lot more possibilities for errors. Imagine getting a kraken drop but it didn't get registered on the other server as you got rerouted to it? bam you have no kraken now.

I don't know what companies you think have their own infrastructures running between continents. Microsoft and Walmart don't, and they run the largest infrastructures in the world with centralized servers. I don't think you realize the amount of money it would cost to lay your own infrastructure between such a large distance. Nothing SE would be remotely able to afford.
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artem is dead on... what you are asking for phishn is a bit on the crazy side, lol.

Valandil said:
Except when you do what I do and file a formal complaint against them and get 3 years of monthly service fees refunded to your Visa card.
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why would you expect all your money back? you got service, used bandwidth, server space, etc. you'd maybe deserve 10% of your money back at best.
 
I don't know about the R0 problem, my beef was with SE not recognizing the problem that many users were having with even getting into the game for 6 days, let alone issue out refunds/credits for services not provided. About day 4 I tried to contact a GM about it since the office was closed and it took 8 calls before they'd just forward that "Nothing is wrong over here, try logging in later" BS Post and boot me from the chat room.

A Simple, we are aware of the problem and are currently working on ways to fix it, sorry for the inconvenience, check back later for more updates - would of satisfied me instead of ignoring the problem and putting it on a basic consumer's shoulders.

I know there are going to be networking/tech issues with an online game but I also expect some level of customer support when this occurs, I am paying for it after all. Like I said, acknowledge theres a problem and let people know you're working on it, what's the big deal in doing that? I was getting really mad when they were posting issues about GM service and Aura steal but no mention of the 3113 error.

As for the R0 thing, just help people out by moving them out of affected zones, it's not that hard!
 
Zerayla said:
Its not hard to stay out of a zone for a week, or two... however if we're not getting 100% of the product we're paying for, then a reimbursement needs to be made... however, we all know that even if it were SE's fault entirely, they would never give a reimbursement.

When a person is helpless to do anything about a problem, its natural to complain.
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If you're not happy with the product you're more then welcome to quit.

For some reason I highly doubt everyone affected will quit the game just because they don't get a refund. I highly doubt SE cares about losing some customers.
 
Uzor said:
If you're not happy with the product you're more then welcome to quit.

For some reason I highly doubt everyone affected will quit the game just because they don't get a refund. I highly doubt SE cares about losing some customers.
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I was speaking more from a "general" standpoint.
 
Zerayla said:
I was speaking more from a "general" standpoint.
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I were too. I highly doubt people will quit the game if they don't get their money refunded.

While yes, some will, the majority will stay.

Well, atleast you didn't say "I'll quit if I don't get my money refunded". Those are the worst people. Threaten to quit, and when they don't, they don't go through with it. Seriously, what do they want? attention? People saying "NOO! DON'T QUIT!". So I have to give you points for that.
 
neophytal said:
why would you expect all your money back? you got service, used bandwidth, server space, etc. you'd maybe deserve 10% of your money back at best.
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Doesn't matter what I expected/deserved/etc. Fact of the matter is on February 26th I received a credit for $540.10 from Square-Enix Online which came in very handy towards paying for my new laptop. :)
 
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