POL NEWS : Battle Adjustments part 2(08/23/2007)

Foosk said:
I never melee'd on cor until 70 when I was able to use joyeuse and ohat. And even then I hardly melee'd cause we were almost always exping on imps.

For this argument we have to assume the COR has a joyeuse because I can't see how meleeing for TP with any other weapon available to cor would be more effective than shooting.

As cor, a high % of our dmg comes from weapon skill. At merit level, the dmg/delay ratio when TPing with gun is pretty sad when compared with any other dd. The difference in DOT from using joyeuse and gun for TP (completely ignoring weapon skills) is minimal in my experience. But, the multi-hit ability of joyeuse dramatically increases your rate of TP build. I haven't done any parses to compare what's more effective, this is just my observation from playing the job both ways. Ignoring time spent rolling, TPing in this way has allowed me to fire slugs off at a rate that is definitely faster than once per min.

Also, I wanted to note that just because you have a joyeuse equipped main hand, doesn't mean you can't make use of barrage.. and in merits, quick draw has proved much more useful for sleep/dispel than spent on 200ish dmg.
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Like I said, I'm only lvl 66. But I've seen it done all the way from 30 all the way up to 70 on both BLU and NIN
 
Sorry for the derail, I just don't want everyone thinking that because a corsair melees, he/she is automatically gimp.

On-topic: The adjustments look awesome, can't wait. Though I'm a little unsure of how the change to fold will work. Considering it is a job ability that has an instantaneous effect of removing your last roll/bust, how can it reduce chance of bust without being a job trait or an ability with some sort of duration? Sounds like its getting completely redefined.
 
Foosk said:
Sorry for the derail, I just don't want everyone thinking that because a corsair melees, he/she is automatically gimp.

On-topic: The adjustments look awesome, can't wait. Though I'm a little unsure of how the change to fold will work. Considering it is a job ability that has an instantaneous effect of removing your last roll/bust, how can it reduce chance of bust without being a job trait or an ability with some sort of duration? Sounds like its getting completely redefined.
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Right now it removes the latest roll, no?

I'm guessing with the change, it'll just remove the weakest roll. The Japanese one says nothing about reducing the chance for bust.
 
This obviously isn't a good technique if the mob you're fighting has annoying AoE such as amnesia, but if you wouldn't mind, please enlighten me why a cor that melees for TP is so gimp.
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It's not so much a problem that the COR wants to melee for TP so much as it ends up being the COR meleeing for the mob's TP.

You'll do more damage per TP given to the mob by shooting, and the overall damage over time will probably be equal, if not favouring the gun now with better ammo.
 
The new bst update is interesting, I think it will lead to far more party bsts, and it is going to make the job much easier to level. I LIKED the challenge of bst being hard! I would like to see something to make bst a viable end game job. Bst in dynamis, limbus, sky and sea are just not effective, and I would love to play endgame as bst.
 
Bstmistress said:
The new bst update is interesting, I think it will lead to far more party bsts, and it is going to make the job much easier to level. I LIKED the challenge of bst being hard! I would like to see something to make bst a viable end game job. Bst in dynamis, limbus, sky and sea are just not effective, and I would love to play endgame as bst.
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It still isn't really going to fix much. All 75 camps have shitty(or nonexistant) pet level selection, except for Mount. Zhayolm. 72+ Leeches, Jagils, Clots, Flies, and Eruca are a pretty good variety.

They need to pepper some DC-EM, nonaggro/nonlink stuff to other camps. Increasing Sea Puk level range so that they can pop at 75 would make Training Grounds gate a good place to bring a BST. Puk are made of rape as pets.

However, I do believe this change will result in Zhayolm becoming a much better place to Merit at. As a BST will result in an additional party memeber breaking down Diamondhide faster. It still won't be comparable to Mamool Ja, however.
 
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Skaw said:
It still isn't really going to fix much. All 75 camps have shitty(or nonexistant) pet level selection, except for Mount. Zhayolm. 72+ Leeches, Jagils, Clots, Flies, and Eruca are a pretty good variety.

They need to pepper some DC-EM, nonaggro/nonlink stuff to other camps. Increasing Sea Puk level range so that they can pop at 75 would make Training Grounds gate a good place to bring a BST. Puk are made of rape as pets.

However, I do believe this change will result in Zhayolm becoming a much better place to Merit at. As a BST will result in an additional party memeber breaking down Diamondhide faster. It still won't be comparable to Mamool Ja, however.
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Really this change for BSTs is a bit of a good and bad thing to me...charmed pets not impacting XP is always nice but it seems to help BST or /BSTs pre-Leave more than anything, though does rid of the hassle of leave/recharm as the mob dies.

Pets getting HP back while in Stay mode can be awesome if they regain HP proportionate to a mob just standing in it's pop area, which is incredibly useful for the most part if you aren't good at doing the leave/recharm trick which ALSO let pets regain HP.

Longer-lasting Jug pets is just a money saver, and will only be of a huge important to people who use Amigo Sabotender and Chopsuey Chuckie. To anyone else it's just saving a very, very meager amount of gil.

So yeh...this stuff is pretty great, but mostly for the sake of convenience - it mainly just rids of the need to Leave/Recharm pets as mob dies and/or as a means of getting back pet HP. They still need to give BST some sort of melee JA/Trait so they're not left in the dust, though. =P
 
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Judging by the amount damage taken to a VT Tiger in Kuftal Tunnel, with the time it takes to kill a EP Crab/Lizard, I really don't think a VT/IT pet is that strong enough to take out a EM+ pet in a feasible amount of time even with the master's help to make 10k-15k/hour. Of course we don't know what the Stay regen would be like, and that's not including pet food. However, I am unsure whether you're all exaggerating here or not.

If you think about it, how BSTs level, is to chuck a DC/EM pet to a T/VT and potentially IT, think how just damaging one pet is to a T/VT prey. Reverse the situation (where you control the VT/IT pet and hunt EM prey) and it's why I cannot see where the EXP spike will come from. Maybe an additional 2000~ to whatever EXP/hour you can make, but I can't think of any other camp except Bohyada Treee for T and onwards charming then EM raping.

Using Korroloka as an early level example, I charmed a Scorpion there (34-37) and set it on some Combats (27-30). Assuming the player is 27 and manages to charm the scorpion and not die, then familiared it, I set it on 2 Combats and I didn't help it at all (there was no reasonable way for me to help). After 2 bats, the scorpion was at 74% HP. Assuming if a level 27 did help, it might've saved 10% HP from the scorp, and the potential there was (not including EXP band, and assuming penalty is completely none-existant) around 400 EXP.

I set it on a spider next, after aggroing them all myself so the Scorpion and Spider can go 1v1 without links, the Scorpion was down to 55% HP. Of course it's possible to heal the damage with pet food, and once Monday rolls by, Stay. But to literally get 10k+ for the 30 minutes you'd literally need to kill 100 monsters (assuming all EM) in 30 minutes. Even with your help, pet food and Stay you'd need to be killing ..... really fast.

I can't tell if people are joking though . . . . :wacko:

*Just throwing this out for discussion. We'll find out Monday regardless, but just my thoughts based on what I've tried. I'm probably wrong and would be grateful if someone clarify for me and teach me some new things. ^-^|||
 
Ladykiki said:
If you think about it, how BSTs level, is to chuck a DC/EM pet to a T/VT and potentially IT, think how just damaging one pet is to a T/VT prey. Reverse the situation (where you control the VT/IT pet and hunt EM prey) and it's why I cannot see where the EXP spike will come from. Maybe an additional 2000~ to whatever EXP/hour you can make, but I can't think of any other camp except Bohyada Treee for T and onwards charming then EM raping.
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Well, asides the fact that T+ pets will still effect XP since XP is based on the highest-level mob...
Crawlers Nest: Helm Beetle, Crawler Hunter or Knight Crawler vs Killer Mushroom, Death Jacket, Doom Scorpion, Worker Crawler
Attohwa Chasm: Cutluss Scopion, Cave Antlion, Monarch Ogrefly, Tracker Antlion vs Tier 3 Goblins, Tracer Antlion, Attohwa Couerl(?), etc...
Bostanieux: Bloodsucker vs Werebat / Funnel Bats
Gustav: Antares, Robber Crab vs Tier 4 goblins, Hellbat, Makara, Labyrinth Leech

While most of those would easily 1-shot you if you mischarmed, it's not exactly hard to get help to sleep the mob and toss charm a dozen or so times til it lands. And using any of those pets vs listed mobs could pretty much (1-3)-shot the latter mobs, it'd be nonstop chains and completely broken.

Luckily, this isn't gonna happen though. =P
...I hope.
 
Reko said:
NVM -.-
[Edit]
Misread like a sucker...

However, I dont think PUP will serve as a very good mainhealer anyhoo.
A good addition on the other hand, sure, but with everyone having so many jobs these days,
I doubt any end-game shell will have to use a pup as backup healer.
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Depending on how the healer head works , does it Cure party members on random or we can tell him who to cure, PUP will be good main healer. Reasons: (if you already play PUP you should know)
1. RDM pup has massive MP pool
2. They don't get hate as easily and we can always use -enmity on him
3. Pup has several attachment to refresh MP, economizer etcetc
4. Pup has Convert every 1 minute (well sort of), full mp every 1min? weee

That only good if we can tell pup who to cure tho, which i really doubt SE will give pup that... ... meh..
 
Kirlua said:
Depending on how the healer head works , does it Cure party members on random or we can tell him who to cure, PUP will be good main healer. Reasons: (if you already play PUP you should know)
1. RDM pup has massive MP pool
2. They don't get hate as easily and we can always use -enmity on him
3. Pup has several attachment to refresh MP, economizer etcetc
4. Pup has Convert every 1 minute (well sort of), full mp every 1min? weee

That only good if we can tell pup who to cure tho, which i really doubt SE will give pup that... ... meh..
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Not really. If you are whm in a PT you will cure the ones in yellow HP, which should only be the tank. Yellow HP is what trigger cure atm, don't even need light manoeuver past 50% HP of the mob.

And on a side note the enmity attachement doesn't work the right way, if you equip it the pet get more enmity and you get less, but this only concern the nukes really, since the pet has 0 hate from casting cures.
 
Rhaddy said:
this bst update is pretty meh imo.
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Word. Only real good thing I see about this is a couple of new possible camps.
Most of the camps I use the issue isn't the number of pets... It's the number of XP mobs and the number of CCers. This update doesn't do anything to fix that.

Still think BST need some sort of attack up move for themselves and/or pet boost move that can be used more often than 2 hrs. Or pet buff food for juggies.
 
? for you guys

If pup becomes a good main healer will u invite pups only for healing. If u guys do the good thing is the master can still fight while controlling the auto.

What interest me is that they are raising the autos skill. right now its B so i guess its going to be A- or Maybe even A. I can see it now with merits having Daze do over 800+ dmg and ranged attacks doing over 180
 
pchan said:
Not really. If you are whm in a PT you will cure the ones in yellow HP, which should only be the tank. Yellow HP is what trigger cure atm, don't even need light manoeuver past 50% HP of the mob.

And on a side note the enmity attachement doesn't work the right way, if you equip it the pet get more enmity and you get less, but this only concern the nukes really, since the pet has 0 hate from casting cures.
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The issue is, if couple members are hit by aoe and all in yellow, who will the puppet cure first? That's what i mean by if we cannot issue direct command for the puppet, the main healing role as PUP would not be that great D:

Plus if you time it right, just deactivate and activate to shed off hate etc.
 
Damita said:
Word. Only real good thing I see about this is a couple of new possible camps.
Most of the camps I use the issue isn't the number of pets... It's the number of XP mobs and the number of CCers. This update doesn't do anything to fix that.

Still think BST need some sort of attack up move for themselves and/or pet boost move that can be used more often than 2 hrs. Or pet buff food for juggies.
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It seemed to me that the update was mostly intended to make leveling BST up a bit easier, particularly at lower levels, rather than make meriting on BST any more appealing...

Perhaps we'll see more interesting BST/party camps in the upcoming update though.
 
I'm hoping against hope that new jug pets will be released at the last second.

Hell, just uncap Steffi and I'll be a happy BST. Bunnies kick ass :p
 
I'm just hoping there's gonna be some useful grips.
-3% Delay.
Yay, more shit to take up space :P


But yeah, Grips = #1 [Interest]
 
Silenus said:
I'm hoping against hope that new jug pets will be released at the last second.

Hell, just uncap Steffi and I'll be a happy BST. Bunnies kick ass :p
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Uncap the funguar. :(
 
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