POL NEWS : Battle Adjustments part 2(08/23/2007)

[Mishaela]

If pup becomes a good main healer will u invite pups only for healing. If u guys do the good thing is the master can still fight while controlling the auto.

What interest me is that they are raising the autos skill. right now its B so i guess its going to be A- or Maybe even A. I can see it now with merits having Daze do over 800+ dmg and ranged attacks doing over 180

No doubt about it that the Automaton has some good damage, but regarding the master meleeing as well...hate to do the can of worms thing, but that's highly dependent on if the PUP themself can do damage worth the TP they give the mob. The unfortunate case is, most PUPs will just be spoon-feeding the mob TP with their melee hits unless they have things like full Pahluwan as well as h2h merits, and even then it's a bit of a long shot.

I hate to say it, especially because I think PUP is an awesome job...but the PUP themself is probably one of the least capable melee in the entire game. RDM get more melee gear, BRD get more melee gear. Hell, WHM gets more melee gear, and in spite of them being one of the biggest TP-feeder jobs in the game, I can still find half a dozen better reasons to throw my WHM in the fray than to have a PUP take out their knuckles. Just about the only jobs that are really comparable to their spectrum of damage is BLM and SMN meleeing. And that's really, really bad. =/

I'm just hoping there's gonna be some useful grips.
-3% Delay.
Yay, more shit to take up space


But yeah, Grips = #1 [Interest]

I dunno, pretty sure attacking 3% faster would have a somewhat good use, especially for jobs who may not have anything better to go in that slot (i.e. DRG and to a lesser degree, SAM, if they aren't puller) =/

 

[Skaw]

People are already forgetting that grips are a bonus to the two hand fix. The meat of it is making two handed weapons less prone to the targets defense and weaponskill formula adjustments. Don't be upset if you find out you aren't going to be seeing STR+5 Accuracy+10 grips.

 

[pakomen]

Damn, about time bst got something...

 

[Bajaratt]

People are already forgetting that grips are a bonus to the two hand fix. The meat of it is making two handed weapons less prone to the targets defense and weaponskill formula adjustments. Don't be upset if you find out you aren't going to be seeing STR+5 Accuracy+10 grips.

OMG, the grips aren't going to be completely broken, it's just a waste of space that you weren't even using in the first place!

 

[Mishaela]

OMG, the grips aren't going to be completely broken, it's just a waste of space that you weren't even using in the first place!

omfg why don't 1h weapons have grips too, I demand nerfs!

 

[Moink]

No doubt about it that the Automaton has some good damage, but regarding the master meleeing as well...hate to do the can of worms thing, but that's highly dependent on if the PUP themself can do damage worth the TP they give the mob. The unfortunate case is, most PUPs will just be spoon-feeding the mob TP with their melee hits unless they have things like full Pahluwan as well as h2h merits, and even then it's a bit of a long shot.

I hate to say it, especially because I think PUP is an awesome job...but the PUP themself is probably one of the least capable melee in the entire game. RDM get more melee gear, BRD get more melee gear. Hell, WHM gets more melee gear, and in spite of them being one of the biggest TP-feeder jobs in the game, I can still find half a dozen better reasons to throw my WHM in the fray than to have a PUP take out their knuckles. Just about the only jobs that are really comparable to their spectrum of damage is BLM and SMN meleeing. And that's really, really bad. =/

Pup was never meant to melee along side its automaton and be more like a back line job using Maneuvers to the pet from afar. Kinda like a SMN without the manapool. Pup has become a unique in that because it has C in H2H and C- in daggers that it should be meleing. granted, It helps parties with faster kills especially with acc gear and food, but it was never meant to do that as a part of its job party wise. The real Damage dealer will always be the Automaton, it's the master's responsibility to maintain the Auto's health and properly maintain a maneuver order.

Recently i've been seing PUPs solo more, using a stormwaker / harli combonation and there have been rumors floating around that SE is gonna make pup more of a soloable job. All in all it was a concept from SE that has failed miserably and players are learning to cope with it.

I love PUP and i encourage others to level it if they can afford it, but I won't deny where SE has failed the job. These new heads may help it along in Side healing and even the general concept of PUPs joining manaburns with the BLM might make it even more fun to play. Just imagine a job that can go from a Manaburn party to Cannon style all without changing mains or subjobs. BRD can do it... but i think its somewhat boring to stand there just casting ballad or the occassional INT boosting spell.

 

[Marajade]

the change to the 2hand forumla makes me think back to D&D, where 2hand weapons apply 1.5 your STR to damage and shit, plus other similar effects (hi2u Power Attack) and Honestly makes sense.
A 2hand weapon would hit harder easier than a 1hand weapon, simply because you swing it with both hands. Having the exact same statistical calculations just doesn't make sense.

 

[Reko]

I dunno, pretty sure attacking 3% faster would have a somewhat good use, especially for jobs who may not have anything better to go in that slot (i.e. DRG and to a lesser degree, SAM, if they aren't puller) =/

Yes, it's better than nothing for the jobs that use 2H weapons 100% already.
But the 1 time I get to use my GA, it doesn't matter how fast I swing.
Which is why I am hoping for something that will make me hit harder, or boost my WS's.

 

[pchan]

Pup was never meant to melee along side its automaton and be more like a back line job using Maneuvers to the pet from afar. Kinda like a SMN without the manapool. Pup has become a unique in that because it has C in H2H and C- in daggers that it should be meleing. granted, It helps parties with faster kills especially with acc gear and food, but it was never meant to do that as a part of its job party wise. The real Damage dealer will always be the Automaton, it's the master's responsibility to maintain the Auto's health and properly maintain a maneuver order.

Recently i've been seing PUPs solo more, using a stormwaker / harli combonation and there have been rumors floating around that SE is gonna make pup more of a soloable job. All in all it was a concept from SE that has failed miserably and players are learning to cope with it.

I love PUP and i encourage others to level it if they can afford it, but I won't deny where SE has failed the job. These new heads may help it along in Side healing and even the general concept of PUPs joining manaburns with the BLM might make it even more fun to play. Just imagine a job that can go from a Manaburn party to Cannon style all without changing mains or subjobs. BRD can do it... but i think its somewhat boring to stand there just casting ballad or the occassional INT boosting spell.

Nah if you don't melee with your pup I really feel sorry for you. Skill is one thing, accuracy is another thing. Also in the few merit invite i got as PUP, i always outdamage the automaton, and it's the same when you solo. If you remove the master you kinda halve your damage output.

I also heard that melee rdm, brd or whm is better than PUP. Sorry but i have rdm and sword is fucking weak dmg. PUP beats a rdm easily because it does more dmg and attacks faster.

Hell there is a reason why H2H beats pretty much every other weapon in this game.


Also SE has already adjusted the existing frame w/o telling you. For example the blm head only nuke past 50%, always uses the same spell, the whm head always heals past 50% and doesn't cast anything else. This wasn't the case earlier this year.

 

[pchan]

If pup becomes a good main healer will u invite pups only for healing. If u guys do the good thing is the master can still fight while controlling the auto.

What interest me is that they are raising the autos skill. right now its B so i guess its going to be A- or Maybe even A. I can see it now with merits having Daze do over 800+ dmg and ranged attacks doing over 180

You won't invite PUP for main healing for the same reason you hardly see any blu main healing. I would only do that as backup healer.

Yes what interests me is the raise of skill that I suggested in another post. Curretly you get 250 with merits, but with very good manoeuvers/tier II merits that improve accuracy / attack /haste. I hope we will be able to reach 276 with merits at least. It's also very interesting for the new BLM head; stronger spell and stronger accuracy. Totally naked with 70ish int a thunder 3 should do at least 500. With all the ice attachement you can double the M.attack power making it 1000 or more. Can't wait. 1000 dmg every 20 sec.

What I also think is that the new heads will allow more attachements of a given color. Well I'm thinking more dark slots for the whm head (MP /refresh/convert etc) and more ice slots for BLM head. This would mean that you could have convert and refresh together .. pretty cool.

 

[Moink]

Nah if you don't melee with your pup I really feel sorry for you. Skill is one thing, accuracy is another thing. Also in the few merit invite i got as PUP, i always outdamage the automaton, and it's the same when you solo. If you remove the master you kinda halve your damage output.

I also heard that melee rdm, brd or whm is better than PUP. Sorry but i have rdm and sword is fucking weak dmg. PUP beats a rdm easily because it does more dmg and attacks faster.

Hell there is a reason why H2H beats pretty much every other weapon in this game.


Also SE has already adjusted the existing frame w/o telling you. For example the blm head only nuke past 50%, always uses the same spell, the whm head always heals past 50% and doesn't cast anything else. This wasn't the case earlier this year.

1) i never said i don't melee alongside my Automaton. I simply said that was not the intended job for it to be doin. was always SE's idea to have a pet that was as strong as the players. SMN can do it, but only every minute and BST have to rely on jugs or the environment and with lil control of the pet. DRG wyvern aides the master and that master has lil control over its pet as well as the master being the main DD. The concept behind PUP was let the master control a pet from afar using the Maneuvers and repairing him either during or post combat. The C in h2h and c- in daggers was put there for back-up incase the pet died during mid combat. Hell I remember when PUP didn't have Howling Fist and Dragon Kick. Look at how the Automaton works... It does nothing unless told to attack. It won't even heal unless told to attack. Like I said, it was a failed concept and the players are learning to cope with it.

2) the RDM frame doesn't nuke til 50% unless you actually command it to nuke. Ice Maneuver makes it nuke when commanded to and before that it was light + Dark Maneuver would it equal nuking. There's always ways to control the Automaton to nuke and when not to.

 

[Moink]

You won't invite PUP for main healing for the same reason you hardly see any blu main healing. I would only do that as backup healer.

Yes what interests me is the raise of skill that I suggested in another post. Curretly you get 250 with merits, but with very good manoeuvers/tier II merits that improve accuracy / attack /haste. I hope we will be able to reach 276 with merits at least. It's also very interesting for the new BLM head; stronger spell and stronger accuracy. Totally naked with 70ish int a thunder 3 should do at least 500. With all the ice attachement you can double the M.attack power making it 1000 or more. Can't wait. 1000 dmg every 20 sec.

What I also think is that the new heads will allow more attachements of a given color. Well I'm thinking more dark slots for the whm head (MP /refresh/convert etc) and more ice slots for BLM head. This would mean that you could have convert and refresh together .. pretty cool.

That is why i'm interested in seing what a PUP can do manaburn wise. Think it would be exciting and fun. I'm more impressed with the BLM head then the WHM already, the AI will make it auto-nuke the strongest spell it has. /drool. Call me a fool for having 5/5 magic merits, but now i think those merits won't go to waste after all. the blm head would also help somewhat in endgame more then rdm or whm. It won't be able to do DMs in events like dynamis, But unlimited MP for strong spells could go a long way.

 

[Ryujin]

That would very nice, i am still lost though. Before i buy back all of my gear for pup i need to be 100% happy with how it is now. Right now i am lving smn and having a great time with it. I know smn has more of a use in endgame then pup does. So i will see what happens.

 

[Mishaela]

I also heard that melee rdm, brd or whm is better than PUP. Sorry but i have rdm and sword is fucking weak dmg. PUP beats a rdm easily because it does more dmg and attacks faster.

Hell there is a reason why H2H beats pretty much every other weapon in this game.

It's not primarily comparing which job can out-DD which, it's comparing which can do the best damage vs TP return. The fact that PUP's h2h is so low combined with their extreme lack of good DD gear means that while they can hit fast, it'll generally be rather weak hits as well as a lot of TP returned for it. RDM can hit for 0+20s very quickly if they want to pop on haste/acc gear and a low-damage dagger, and as ridiculous as that is, it's sadly about as good as the average PUP's DoT will do, without the enormous TP feed. =/ (I don't at ALL condone melee RDMing in parties, I'm just using it as example to just how poor most PUP damage seems to be...)

I'm sure this is coming off as much more offensive as I intended...I myself think PUP is a fun job but I just don't see them as worth the TP feeding that most of them wind up doing. And even if they CAN out-DD a RDM...that's sortof incredibly moot - RDM is one of the least capable melee DD in the game. The job should be less "I can out-DD [insert healer or support job here]" and more "I'm on par with [insert real melee job here]"...because until they can manage that, why have them melee at all? =/

 

[pchan]

It's not primarily comparing which job can out-DD which, it's comparing which can do the best damage vs TP return. The fact that PUP's h2h is so low combined with their extreme lack of good DD gear means that while they can hit fast, it'll generally be rather weak hits as well as a lot of TP returned for it. RDM can hit for 0+20s very quickly if they want to pop on haste/acc gear and a low-damage dagger, and as ridiculous as that is, it's sadly about as good as the average PUP's DoT will do, without the enormous TP feed. =/ (I don't at ALL condone melee RDMing in parties, I'm just using it as example to just how poor most PUP damage seems to be...)

I'm sure this is coming off as much more offensive as I intended...I myself think PUP is a fun job but I just don't see them as worth the TP feeding that most of them wind up doing. And even if they CAN out-DD a RDM...that's sortof incredibly moot - RDM is one of the least capable melee DD in the game. The job should be less "I can out-DD [insert healer or support job here]" and more "I'm on par with [insert real melee job here]"...because until they can manage that, why have them melee at all? =/

This argument about pup tp feeding is ok if you dont invite .. say .. Thf in PTs. One fist from pup is more dmg than 1 dagger hit from THF. Could say that for nin too ... Also excpet dusk gear pup has access to a lot of haste gear. Galiard body, swift belt, babrossa zereh etc and usukane set. They have also the full plw set for accuracy set.

 

[Sharpe]

This argument about pup tp feeding is ok if you dont invite .. say .. Thf in PTs. One fist from pup is more dmg than 1 dagger hit from THF. Could say that for nin too ... Also excpet dusk gear pup has access to a lot of haste gear. Galiard body, swift belt, babrossa zereh etc and usukane set. They have also the full plw set for accuracy set.

You're forgetting NIN's have Subtle Blow (also i've never seen a PUP's own melee come anywhere near mine) and THF WS is a hell of a lot more damaging than a PUP's.

 

[Shi-do-sha]

o wow... this just might be the update that brings me back to FFXI...



















































meh... probably not

 

[pchan]

You're forgetting NIN's have Subtle Blow (also i've never seen a PUP's own melee come anywhere near mine) and THF WS is a hell of a lot more damaging than a PUP's.

you are forgetting that pup/monk has subtle blow and pup have a puppet

 

[Ryujin]

ok 1st of all.

PUPPETMASTERS main weapon is the auto not there fist. Finnaly our autos will have maybe A skill. We have h2h as backup and yes we can do some dmg but we do give alot of tp. Maybe it would be a good idea to sub whm or cor. The whole purpose is to controll the puppet and to keep it alive from afar. We need to wait till the update to see how the job is.

Also i have many parses that i out dmg sam's, monks, and other melee. So yes we can still do our own dmg with alot of acc gear and food.

 

[Sharpe]

you are forgetting that pup/monk has subtle blow and pup have a puppet

Subbing MNK gives less than half the Subtle Blow of a 75 Ninja. The puppet also feeds TP to the mob. PUP itself will not do near as much damage as a Ninja.