POL NEWS : Battle Adjustments part 2(08/23/2007)

pchan said:
you are forgetting that pup/monk has subtle blow and pup have a puppet
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If you're subbing monk for merits, you're fighting a losing battle already.
 
Ryujin said:
ok 1st of all.

PUPPETMASTERS main weapon is the auto not there fist. Finnaly our autos will have maybe A skill. We have h2h as backup and yes we can do some dmg but we do give alot of tp. Maybe it would be a good idea to sub whm or cor. The whole purpose is to controll the puppet and to keep it alive from afar. We need to wait till the update to see how the job is.

Also i have many parses that i out dmg sam's, monks, and other melee. So yes we can still do our own dmg with alot of acc gear and food.
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No offense or anything.... but ive yet to get out DD'ed by a pup on either my mnk or my sam.... unlesss you got the really sub par ones i don't overly believe that one....
 
Nugotugo said:
No offense or anything.... but ive yet to get out DD'ed by a pup on either my mnk or my sam.... unlesss you got the really sub par ones i don't overly believe that one....
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Comparing monk and pup is STUPID. It's like comparing RDM and RNG ... they both have archery skill.
 
There's no question that the automaton is good damage, but that wasn't what I was talking about, nor was I ever talking about. The puppetmaster themselves have very low h2h skill, and very little melee gear (and what gear they do get is very meh) - yeah, they can melee for additional damage, but the damage they do typically just isn't worth it in comparison to the TP they return. The only time I can really see a PUP as possibly worthwhile to melee is if they have full h2h merits, and even then that only puts that at B or so h2h.

If you still don't get it, here's an alternate way to look at it: Summoner's avatars are great DD, their pet is the source of their damage - just like Puppetmaster! They have higher Staff skill than PUP has H2H skill, so should they be meleeing alongside their avatars? Hell no.

The PUP themselves just aren't that spectacular of DDs; if they're decked out, they are semi-decent at absolute best. I'm sure this'll come off as laughable, but maybe, just maybe they'd be better off with some sort of support subjob? I mean at least /COR would let them buff their automaton's att or acc, as well as give the party a decent buff as well. It sounds silly but it's much better to make a good DD (in this case, the automaton) better than to make a bad DD (the PUP) a decent one.

But then, maybe I'm overrating COR rolls? I really dunno...I'd just like to think there's something PUP* can sub that won't result in them taking fisticuffs and yelling out, "Have at you, old bean! I shall smother you with TP until you choke on it!", y'know?
 
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reason Summoners don't melee is because their avatars drain MP. They're better off just throwing out a Blood Pact, and then /heal to restore MP before the next Blood Pact :P

Sure, they COULD melee, but it would decrease their overall damage rather then increase it. PUP won't suffer the same way if they melee.
 
Ryujin said:
Also i have many parses that i out dmg sam's, monks, and other melee. So yes we can still do our own dmg with alot of acc gear and food.
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There's nothing to brag about when you compare yourself to complete gimps; don't act like it's an accomplishment.

Edit: LOL @ pchan saying he'll go pup/mnk and think he'll be anything but a waste of a party space.
 
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the sam had some good gear. The body Pc that gives 10 acc and 10 attack, Acc rings, ect. He was not a gimp sam. I am not a Gimp pup to be honest. I have almost every attachment fighting colibris my auto was doing 500+ dazes and 150+ ranged attacks. And i would finish the skill chain with 300+ raging fist 1-2 times per fight
 
PUP is not a MNK and MNK is not a PUP. Theyre both good jobs and they both do well. Comparing them to each other is stupid and gonna make an arguement to nowhere. One job can do massive damage using moves like Asuran's Fists and Chi Blast where the other can Use Maneuvers to command powerful moves like Cannonball Blade and Daze or even Nuking and being able to aide a party by casting flash or keeping the mob enfeebled or slowed.

Parsing another job for another reason then to try to help make the other job stand out is also argumentable. I know you mean the best for PUP Ryu but, noone will believe the parsing and just call BS on it. Best thing to do is to stand up to the people who laugh at the job and show them face to face on not what the job is capable of but what you can do with the job. PUP is awesome and noone knows that better then those who believe in the job and level it for their own damn selves.
 
The more i read up on these adjustments SE comes out with the more i feel that they are trying to tell the Pups that they would excel as a back line job more then a front line.
Meaning, have their auto out in front fighting while sitting in the back doing whatever it is that those mage jobs do. :)
especially with this enhanced cure ability for the auto, maybe pup could be a pretty good healer that can also add some damage to the mix. (and also because pups get a lot of mage style gear already)



I wish Reya was still around cause she was an excellent Pup and could play the job better then anyone else i've seen or heard about. She could Definitely show everyone what all a pup can and can't do.
 
Kalefury said:
The more i read up on these adjustments SE comes out with the more i feel that they are trying to tell the Pups that they would excel as a back line job more then a front line.
Meaning, have their auto out in front fighting while sitting in the back doing whatever it is that those mage jobs do. :)
especially with this enhanced cure ability for the auto, maybe pup could be a pretty good healer that can also add some damage to the mix. (and also because pups get a lot of mage style gear already)



I wish Reya was still around cause she was an excellent Pup and could play the job better then anyone else i've seen or heard about. She could Definitely show everyone what all a pup can and can't do.
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PUP was meantas a backline job from the start. It's not a concept SE is changing, just one theyre improving upon. PUP melee because theyre expected to in parties.
 
PUPs don't melee because they're expected to. They melee because they cannot do anything else, really. They can't cure, because they can't recover MP if the Automaton is in combat.
 
Skaw said:
PUPs don't melee because they're expected to. They melee because they cannot do anything else, really. They can't cure, because they can't recover MP if the Automaton is in combat.
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Deactivate > Reactivate... onlytime that fails is if the Automaton is hit. If Stormwaker is in range of an AoE attack and is hit, I'd blame the master, but that is also why they have repair.
 
Moink said:
Deactivate > Reactivate... onlytime that fails is if the Automaton is hit. If Stormwaker is in range of an AoE attack and is hit, I'd blame the master, but that is also why they have repair.
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And thus, the effectiveness of the Puppetmaster is lost.
 
Skaw said:
And thus, the effectiveness of the Puppetmaster is lost.
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you can't lose something you never had...
how do you kill that which has no... life?!
 
Skaw said:
And thus, the effectiveness of the Puppetmaster is lost.
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Uh... how does the deactivate > reactivate trick make PUP lose it's effective ness especially since all you've commented on was the "healing" abilities of the current Sormwaker Frame? I'm sorry but if i'm in a merit party as my PUP there are only 2 frames i'd choose to use as it stands pre-update and that being Sharpshot and Valor Edge.
 
Moink said:
PUP is not a MNK and MNK is not a PUP. Theyre both good jobs and they both do well. Comparing them to each other is stupid and gonna make an arguement to nowhere. One job can do massive damage using moves like Asuran's Fists and Chi Blast where the other can Use Maneuvers to command powerful moves like Cannonball Blade and Daze or even Nuking and being able to aide a party by casting flash or keeping the mob enfeebled or slowed.

Parsing another job for another reason then to try to help make the other job stand out is also argumentable. I know you mean the best for PUP Ryu but, noone will believe the parsing and just call BS on it. Best thing to do is to stand up to the people who laugh at the job and show them face to face on not what the job is capable of but what you can do with the job. PUP is awesome and noone knows that better then those who believe in the job and level it for their own damn selves.
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Actually posting the parses, along with the gear/food of the people involved would give even a shred of credibility to what he's saying too. All that's been said so far is "I swear I've beaten the top DD jobs in the game," without any proof of it. He doesn't even seem to know what they were wearing, only assuming they weren't gimp(the monk must have been really gimp), it's only further hurting any credibility to his claim. Even if he actually beat them(and I doubt that), he also mentioned his "parse" was against colbiri, so if he was using his RNG frame(and he pretty much has to be) he was getting a big damage boost; against a neutral mob the parse would be much different.

PUP needs help, anyone who thinks it doesn't is fooling themselves(or an idiot like pchan). This update might provide some of that help, but not as a melee damage dealer. They still have no real purpose in the game, right now they're just weaker versions of several jobs, depending on the frames they use; you're trading quality for quantity. Their only "real" use is salvage and then really only if you can't get a monk. They need something that they can provide that will actually be different and worthwhile; hell maybe even something to make them not useless for endgame.
 
Bajaratt said:
Actually posting the parses, along with the gear/food of the people involved would give even a shred of credibility to what he's saying too. All that's been said so far is "I swear I've beaten the top DD jobs in the game," without any proof of it. He doesn't even seem to know what they were wearing, only assuming they weren't gimp(the monk must have been really gimp), it's only further hurting any credibility to his claim. Even if he actually beat them(and I doubt that), he also mentioned his "parse" was against colbiri, so if he was using his RNG frame(and he pretty much has to be) he was getting a big damage boost; against a neutral mob the parse would be much different.

PUP needs help, anyone who thinks it doesn't is fooling themselves(or an idiot like pchan). This update might provide some of that help, but not as a melee damage dealer. They still have no real purpose in the game, right now they're just weaker versions of several jobs, depending on the frames they use; you're trading quality for quantity. Their only "real" use is salvage and then really only if you can't get a monk. They need something that they can provide that will actually be different and worthwhile; hell maybe even something to make them not useless for endgame.
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Does every job need a reason to be created? Yes, through a development team to where they think they will find not only the job fun but hard to work with.

Honestly tho. Are DD only allowd in HNM shells and mages must heal? BLM even must heal the DD? PUP is being offered a BLM and WHM head for stormwaker. Not only does this make it a great thing for parties, but if the BLM is gonna have an A skill in magic then im sure it's gonna have aga's AM and possibly the earlier Tier 4 spells. Are those not accepted in "endgame" conditions?

sorry myspelling and grammar are worse then usual and it's late...
 
Moink said:
Uh... how does the deactivate > reactivate trick make PUP lose it's effective ness especially since all you've commented on was the "healing" abilities of the current Sormwaker Frame? I'm sorry but if i'm in a merit party as my PUP there are only 2 frames i'd choose to use as it stands pre-update and that being Sharpshot and Valor Edge.
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You're an idiot. I wasn't talking about the healing abilities of the Stormwaker frame, but the healing abilities of PUP/WHM(RDM). I'll say it again, for the slow crowd. The only reason Puppetmasters Melee alongside the Automaton is because they cannot do anything else, because if they were to sub a mage job, they wouldn't be able to restore their MP without reducing the effectiveness of their automaton.
 
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