POL NEWS : Battle Adjustments part 2(08/23/2007)

[Moink]

You're an idiot. I wasn't talking about the healing abilities of the Stormwaker frame, but the healing abilities of PUP/WHM(RDM). I'll say it again, for the slow crowd. The only reason Puppetmasters Melee alongside the Automaton is because they cannot do anything else, because if they were to sub a mage job, they wouldn't be able to restore their MP without reducing the effectiveness of their automaton.

/whm and /rdm the only subs allowed for a pup support-wise? hmmm what happened to /cor /brd (idk if the song would roll would get cast over from a real brd or cor)?

Casting Maneuvers is a full time job, combative state and non-combative state. PUP is not meant as a master melee job. Ever have a race car as kid? same fucking concept. PUP is a fun job and a hard one to control and time out.

 

[Sharpe]

PUP is a fun job and a hard one to control and time out.

No job in FFXI is hard, stop kidding yourself.

 

[Skaw]

/whm and /rdm the only subs allowed for a pup support-wise? hmmm what happened to /cor /brd (idk if the song would roll would get cast over from a real brd or cor)?

You can only have one song or one roll up with the jobs subbed, and you do not get job bonuses applied on rolls with /COR, as well as only half effectiveness. And BRD, you're limited to Tier 1 and a few Tier II songs, which ultimately hold no worthwhile change to a level 75 character without instruments and adequate singing skill.

 

[Moink]

No job in FFXI is hard, stop kidding yourself.

i'm not kidding myself and i didnt mean it in an "omg it's going out of control" kind of way. Maintaining a Meneuver order is challenging cus there are so many parts that do not work without the proper maneuver. same with weaponskills for the automaton.

 

[Moink]

You can only have one song or one roll up with the jobs subbed, and you do not get job bonuses applied on rolls with /COR. And BRD, you're limited to Tier 1 and a few Tier II songs, which ultimately hold no worthwhile change to a level 75 character.

thats not what i was asking, i was asking if the song or roll is added or is overwritten by the stronger spells. I know /cor /brd and only hold 1 roll or song.

 

[Sharpe]

i'm not kidding myself and i didnt mean it in an "omg it's going out of control" kind of way. Maintaining a Meneuver order is challenging cus there are so many parts that do not work without the proper maneuver. same with weaponskills for the automaton.

In the 40 levels I played PUP back when it first came out I didn't find keeping maneuver order any harder than BRD song order or keeping hate on PLD or NIN. The only challenge I personally had in this game was trying to keep my attention span long enough in boring ass merit parties.

 

[Moink]

In the 40 levels I played PUP back when it first came out I didn't find keeping maneuver order any harder than BRD song order or keeping hate on PLD or NIN. The only challenge I personally had in this game was trying to keep my attention span long enough in boring ass merit parties.

as did i lvl pup when it was 1st introduced. The job has evolved alot since then and there are parts now that require attention otherwise you just miss out on better damage. i.e Flame Holder and Ice Maker. It's not that hard to do, just requires attention.

 

[Bajaratt]

Does every job need a reason to be created? Yes, through a development team to where they think they will find not only the job fun but hard to work with.

Honestly tho. Are DD only allowd in HNM shells and mages must heal? BLM even must heal the DD? PUP is being offered a BLM and WHM head for stormwaker. Not only does this make it a great thing for parties, but if the BLM is gonna have an A skill in magic then im sure it's gonna have aga's AM and possibly the earlier Tier 4 spells. Are those not accepted in "endgame" conditions?

sorry myspelling and grammar are worse then usual and it's late...

You seriously have on clue how endgame works based on this post. PUP is a horrible job for endgame(not terribly great for exp either) in it's current form; the only endgame areas where it'd be anything but a liability are dynamis, limbus and salvage; basically the endgame that it doesn't matter that the job is just a TP battery for the mob.

Unless you can control exactly what spells your puppet casts and when, it's going to be pretty useless for endgame with the new hats. Even if the puppet could get Tier 4 spells(which I seriously doubt they'd give the puppet that much power), a red mage could still probably out-nuke it due to the massively better gear a red mage could wear. Seriously, stop acting like you're going to get a pet blm with all the strengths of a real black mage. Hell, a real job of whatever the PUP is trying to mimic would be a better use of the slot; that's why the job is so weak. All it's giving up a LOT of potency and power, for the ability to play multiple roles. Until PUP provides something unique and actually useful; they're going to be the fat kids for exp parties and endgame; only picked when there's nothing left.

Every job has a role, except for PUP; unless you count sucking as a role. Actually that could be the role, SE might have added it to make the other jobs look even stronger. In the words of Hank Scorpio, "I want 10,000 tough guys and 10,000 weak guys, just to make the tough guys look even tougher." :wink:

 

[Uzor]

You seriously have on clue how endgame works based on this post. PUP is a horrible job for endgame(not terribly great for exp either) in it's current form; the only endgame areas where it'd be anything but a liability are dynamis, limbus and salvage; basically the endgame that it doesn't matter that the job is just a TP battery for the mob.

Unless you can control exactly what spells your puppet casts and when, it's going to be pretty useless for endgame with the new hats. Even if the puppet could get Tier 4 spells(which I seriously doubt they'd give the puppet that much power), a red mage could still probably out-nuke it due to the massively better gear a red mage could wear. Seriously, stop acting like you're going to get a pet blm with all the strengths of a real black mage. Hell, a real job of whatever the PUP is trying to mimic would be a better use of the slot; that's why the job is so weak. All it's giving up a LOT of potency and power, for the ability to play multiple roles. Until PUP provides something unique and actually useful; they're going to be the fat kids for exp parties and endgame; only picked when there's nothing left.

Every job has a role, except for PUP; unless you count sucking as a role. Actually that could be the role, SE might have added it to make the other jobs look even stronger. In the words of Hank Scorpio, "I want 10,000 tough guys and 10,000 weak guys, just to make the tough guys look even tougher." :wink:

The current nukes are strong as they are. If the Automaton could cast Thunder III, it would do about 1000 damage every nuke with close to 100% accuracy.

Also, believe it or not, but Salvage is more dependant on preventing the enemy to gain TP then almost any other situation. 5 NM's in particular you need to prevent this as much as possible on, with 2 others being a "it makes them easier". As an example, try to even kill, or hell, even keep your melees alive with only 1 WHM, with everyoen whacking on an enemy with 800+ AoE's and a self-heal move that heals itself for more damage then you can deal. It basically becomes a mini-Einherjar-marid with deadly AoE moves. Only its immune to Stun.

 

[pchan]

Subbing MNK gives less than half the Subtle Blow of a 75 Ninja. The puppet also feeds TP to the mob. PUP itself will not do near as much damage as a Ninja.

Unless the ninja has merits ... NO lol. Or maybe unless the PUP has dex rings and eva earrings and red cape .. +1, which i see a lot.

They (smn) have higher Staff skill than PUP has H2H skill, so should they be meleeing alongside their avatars? Hell no.

More because smn don't have melee gear. And staff sucks.

(Pups) would excel as a back line job more then a front line.
Meaning, have their auto out in front fighting while sitting in the back doing whatever it is that those mage jobs do.

The master has to melee. It is a frontline job. Even with a WHM pup.

you can't lose something you never had...
how do you kill that which has no... life?!

lolnoobthatnevertriedpup

Also for the LOL-hnm part. I couldn't stop laughing. It seem that some shell out there are desperately in need of "crowd" to help them reward their leaders and are disappointed that PUP cannot do good. I'll gather a bunch of pup and come entertain you in the Aery. /dance motion ftw.

The reason using pup in HNM is nonsense is because they get nothing from it. PERIOD. Same for dynamis, limbus etc ... lolendgame. PUP needs revisions from LV1 to LV75 and merits.

 

[Sharpe]

Unless the ninja has merits ... NO lol. Or maybe unless the PUP has dex rings and eva earrings and red cape .. +1, which i see a lot.

Do you honestly think the Puppetmaster him/herself can out DD a Ninja?

 

[Sharpe]

The reason using pup in HNM is nonsense is because they get nothing from it. PERIOD. Same for dynamis, limbus etc ... lolendgame. PUP needs revisions from LV1 to LV75 and merits.

From what i've heard from someone in your Dynamis shell your mage puppet was a fucking joke at nuking the stones.

 

[pchan]

From what i've heard from someone in your Dynamis shell your mage puppet was a fucking joke at nuking the stones.

Well not my fault if the BLMs miserably failed that time, and rdm too. They failed so much that pup and drk had to nuke.

 

[Sharpe]

Well not my fault if the BLMs miserably failed that time, and rdm too. They failed so much that pup and drk had to nuke.

From what I heard there was only a couple of BLM's and either way I thought PUP's nukes were good?

 

[Moink]

You seriously have on clue how endgame works based on this post. PUP is a horrible job for endgame(not terribly great for exp either) in it's current form; the only endgame areas where it'd be anything but a liability are dynamis, limbus and salvage; basically the endgame that it doesn't matter that the job is just a TP battery for the mob.

Unless you can control exactly what spells your puppet casts and when, it's going to be pretty useless for endgame with the new hats. Even if the puppet could get Tier 4 spells(which I seriously doubt they'd give the puppet that much power), a red mage could still probably out-nuke it due to the massively better gear a red mage could wear. Seriously, stop acting like you're going to get a pet blm with all the strengths of a real black mage. Hell, a real job of whatever the PUP is trying to mimic would be a better use of the slot; that's why the job is so weak. All it's giving up a LOT of potency and power, for the ability to play multiple roles. Until PUP provides something unique and actually useful; they're going to be the fat kids for exp parties and endgame; only picked when there's nothing left.

Every job has a role, except for PUP; unless you count sucking as a role. Actually that could be the role, SE might have added it to make the other jobs look even stronger. In the words of Hank Scorpio, "I want 10,000 tough guys and 10,000 weak guys, just to make the tough guys look even tougher." :wink:

In current standings ya, PUP can't do much of anything in endgame. But also I don't see (unless the PUP wants to) where it's anywhere profitible for a pup to be joining any endgame shell outside of aht urgan events. Also PUP's skills are being increased from 240 (We all have personal experience what a skill level has to do with what magic are obtained right?) to whatever, allowing more stronger spells and who knows possible WS that need to be unlocked for the PUP like MNK with Asuran Fists. Its a stretch but meh, worth the time to think about. I wouldn't put it past SE also to give the BLM head AM and aga spells, also it is a stretch but the low tier 4 spells is possible. But until the update let those who haven't leveled the job to 75 attack it because it has no standings in old endgame events. Like i said level the job because its fun and because you like it. If you don't like the job because of its lacking, then just leave it be. Its obvious that there are no jobs that are simply not allowd to have fun...

 

[chinis]

More because smn don't have melee gear. And staff sucks.

PUP has horrible selection of melee gear. BRD and RDM can wear better melee gear (SH and amemet+1 come to mind right away). Plus rdm has better sword and dagger skill than pup has h2h, and no one lets them melee.

 

[Ryujin]

you do relize what puppetmaster means right?

PUPPET- MASTER= a master of puppets

our main weapon is our puppet not our h2h. Now that Se is fixing the skill caps our auto might have A skill. Our h2h is what we fall back on. Like smn there main skill is to summone pets not to swing there staff. The big diffrence is pups can send there pet to attack and still help with there h2h.

 

[chinis]

you do relize what puppetmaster means right?

PUPPET- MASTER= a master of puppets

our main weapon is our puppet not our h2h. Now that Se is fixing the skill caps our auto might have A skill. Our h2h is what we fall back on. Like smn there main skill is to summone pets not to swing there staff. The big diffrence is pups can send there pet to attack and still help with there h2h.

Was just pointing out that PUP has pretty much the same selection of meleeing gear that SMN has.

 

[Moink]

Meleing ... we have Usukane gear and Barbarozza's(sp) i believe for melee

 

[mdkuser]

Do you honestly think the Puppetmaster him/herself can out DD a Ninja?

I dont want anymore ninjas in merit. 95% are complete suckage, im serious. My gimp monk outdd most people i had in merit pt, and i dont have any sky stuff lol. A ninjar withough sky stuff is bound to suck. Only a handfull of nins are good, and its hard (im nin 73 too nad im BAd, no sky stuff )