POL News May 21, 2007 "Warning about damage that can occur from harmful programs"

So let me get this straight.

On every server, you have a character (most likely a bot because no one in their right mind could spam AH histories 24/7) who checks AH prices history, in our cases, Cliff. Cliff probably uses Windower to allow another program to log and record the history data, which is then updated on the website ffxiah.com? That would explain the delay on fast moving items, given it still probably needs some time to complete a rotation of every item listed.

Do I get this right?

(Sorry for the derail, I just always wondered how ffxiah.com works.)
 
try finding Pyuguru on Quetz FFXIAH - no entries, yet it is an RMT fish bot in Qufim. Same for Frasierd.

I doubt Cliff would pay for that many characters just to maintain FFXIAH. He'd be more likely to just get it from us.
 
Why most people, who use it, use Windower and its common plugins:

- Because it's just plain *stupid* from a design standpoint, to *not* be able to run the game in windowed mode and thus be able to use the computer for things other than the game. Particularly when the ostensible reason is to prevent third-party program use, which it doesn't accomplish in the slightest.

- Because its macros aren't laggy and don't have an arbitary and excessively low limit to the lines (particularly factoring in SE's love of sidegrades rather than upgrades).

- Because a lot of people have graphics cards that can be pushed to higher settings than the game otherwise allows.

- Because not all Americans know zero Japanese, and thus appreciate the ability to type in the language. But they may not be so fully fluent that they'd want the entire game to be in Japanese.

- Because it's nice to take in-game screenshots at the actual resolution that you see them. Or to take screenshots that include the dialogue window, or to take screenshots of cutscenes. (You can do all this anyway with good old Windows printscreen, it's just you can only take one picture without going and dumping the clipboard contents into a file.)

- Because there's really no valid reason why you can't see alliance MP or anyone's TP. Especially since it's even sent to your computer unencrypted. It's not like it hides any gameplay mechanics the way hiding, say, the magic accuracy stat does. All it accomplishes is an added nuisance factor in that you have to be in the right party or get MP/TP reports from people.

(This last point is *almost* true for distance to mob, but the non-plugin ways of knowing this number (for example, position on the radar) are inexact aside from stuff like the Double Agent assault or the Azimuth Circle event, so you can't *quite* say that it's entirely equivalent aside from the nuisance factor.)

My point of listing these out? Until SE offers most or all of these with some legit option, and no matter how many threats they make about the subject, people will continue using third-party options to correct for what's arguably just plain poor UI design on SE's part.

The solution to this is not to go "how *dare* you use something better than we've provided you, /banstick player-base-with-UI-standards en masse", the solution is to go "hey, let's spend a little while coming up with a good UI so people don't have *reasons* to go third-party except for outright cheating - and then if they're still using third-party stuff when ours is as good or better, *then* we can cheerfully banstick!".

I think even SE realizes this (though they obviously haven't taken - or at least announced - any sensible steps to dealing with it by coming up with an equivalently good UI), which is why they don't ban for *just* Windower unless you make it blatantly obvious that you use it (see Rappa's post), and thereby force them to stick to the letter of the law.
 
Last edited:
It is a good argument. I just wish SE saw it like that.
 
They have finally announced that they are upgrading the UI, though, which leads me to believe they are taking into account peoples complaints, and are doing something about it. But we'll see once its released
 
It is a good argument. I just wish SE saw it like that.

Well the fact that I think they still maintain that disallowing windowed mode actually does something to prevent cheating, makes me a little bit suspect that they might not know what they're talking about. :P
 
- Because it's just plain *stupid* from a design standpoint, to *not* be able to run the game in windowed mode and thus be able to use the computer for things other than the game. Particularly when the ostensible reason is to prevent third-party program use, which it doesn't accomplish in the slightest.
Yes. I really need to get a source on the fact that's basically a Sony demand for PS2 support.

- Because its macros aren't laggy and don't have an arbitary and excessively low limit to the lines (particularly factoring in SE's love of sidegrades rather than upgrades).
This is 100% true though, especially with the number of intentional gear swaps they present a player with.

- Because a lot of people have graphics cards that can be pushed to higher settings than the game otherwise allows.
While this is true, windowed mode has nothing to do with this. Honestly, it's a terrible port that doesn't use a video card's capabilities as much as it could. It's needed an overhaul since day one.

- Because not all Americans know zero Japanese, and thus appreciate the ability to type in the language. But they may not be so fully fluent that they'd want the entire game to be in Japanese.
This is also true, but had to do with the licensing of the IME tool Squeenix uses. It's not really worth it to pay more to have it in use for the US.

- Because it's nice to take in-game screenshots at the actual resolution that you see them. Or to take screenshots that include the dialogue window, or to take screenshots of cutscenes. (You can do all this anyway with good old Windows printscreen, it's just you can only take one picture without going and dumping the clipboard contents into a file.)
Sadly, the main reason is that they want to shove that "Copyright Square-Enix" tag on it. Maybe a compromise is in order.

- Because there's really no valid reason why you can't see alliance MP or anyone's TP. Especially since it's even sent to your computer unencrypted. It's not like it hides any gameplay mechanics the way hiding, say, the magic accuracy stat does. All it accomplishes is an added nuisance factor in that you have to be in the right party or get MP/TP reports from people.
TP is for teamwork, plain and simple. You aren't shown it so that you have to *gasp* work together in a group.
MP, I'll give you that though. The likely reason is space limitations on PS2, make sure to thank it.
Both of them are sent to the client so that the client can reference the values when it needs to, not the player.

(This last point is *almost* true for distance to mob, but the non-plugin ways of knowing this number (for example, position on the radar) are inexact aside from stuff like the Double Agent assault or the Azimuth Circle event, so you can't *quite* say that it's entirely equivalent aside from the nuisance factor.)
Distance is just one of those things. With real experience, you can eyeball it. When you use a plugin to let you know for a long time, have fun when you can't use it anymore.


Long story short, it's a split really, lots of the stuff mentioned are legitimate UI concerns that even windower can't quite fix. Some of it is just laziness or people being spoiled. Either way, what other people have said. Don't announce it, and maybe some of these will get changed with the UI updates.

...though it wouldn't surprise me if they caved in (like with CoP missions) and put TP and distance in. They're really starting to cater to the lazy and whiny.
 
Yes, you're supposed to work together; but I don't see how I'm working any less with a skillchain partner when we don't have to spam our TP values to let each other know when we're ready. That's also not accounting for the absurdly large number of retards who never report their TP even when asked repeatedly. Not allowing you to see others' TP does nothing to support teamwork, it only adds extra steps to the same process.
 
Xsara, Saburi, Hauby, Anemu (i think thats the name) are well known Spider web botter

Those 4 able to buy stuff right after it placed on AH for 2k second after is placed in AH

and usually when no one putting them on AH, it can last 20-40minute before anyone have more web placed on the AH

so my question is... how those 4 able to keep bidding for 1hr+ and always outbid others? will you spend those time keep bidding til you able to buy them? or there is Botting involved?
 
You won't get banned for using Windower unless you admit in-game that you're doing it, in which case you're an idiot and deserve your banning. Anyone who downloads programs randomly and runs them is also an idiot and deserves their banning and item theft, too.

Rappa's Handy List of Things Not to Say In-Game:
-(Mob name) is at (exact percentage) hp!
-Wow (player not in your pt but in your alliance), you have a lot of mp!
-Don't bother with tp reports, I know how much tp you have.
-You should stand at 9.5-10.5 to use your bow. / Wind instruments have a range up to 9.9. / etc
-Anyone else having problems with windower? / Can you help me with windower? / etc
-/sh Attention Square-Enix GMs, I am currently running Final Fantasy Eleven in windowed mode!

Probably more, but you get the idea.

Or just tell them you have a separate comp like I do

load windower since it doesnt take up the whole screen or space I have the rest of my comp to use hence the term "separate comp"

not quite on the screen at all times but not neccesarily invisible if that makes sense
 
Cua said:
Is everyone still going to show windower screen shots now?

Whether or not this is helpful towards the OP, I didn't see it mentioned. While I currently don't care about the windower and all its debates, I enjoy reading, forum boards make me laugh, and I found this.
In the init file, if you leave it alone, there is this line inside it (I believe this is is the original line):

bind sysrq screenshot bmp

That makes the program know to do a screenshot when you press Print Screen.
Add a single word to the end, hide, like so:

bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

Save changes, and whatever plug-ins running are not displayed on the screenshot. Sure it's now at w/e res you're using, and menus are displayed, but they now look like they've been taken by a different 3rd party image capturing tool, take your pick on which one. Toss it in Photoshop or your image editing program of choice, resize to 640x480 and you've a "official" screenshot, minus the copyright tag.

If I went against any rules, feel free to nuke my post or w/e.
The previous line was brought to you by the paranoid individual that I am.
 
Money! Thanks, didn't know that.
 
Whether or not this is helpful towards the OP, I didn't see it mentioned. While I currently don't care about the windower and all its debates, I enjoy reading, forum boards make me laugh, and I found this.
In the init file, if you leave it alone, there is this line inside it (I believe this is is the original line):

bind sysrq screenshot bmp

That makes the program know to do a screenshot when you press Print Screen.
Add a single word to the end, hide, like so:

bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

Save changes, and whatever plug-ins running are not displayed on the screenshot. Sure it's now at w/e res you're using, and menus are displayed, but they now look like they've been taken by a different 3rd party image capturing tool, take your pick on which one. Toss it in Photoshop or your image editing program of choice, resize to 640x480 and you've a "official" screenshot, minus the copyright tag.

If I went against any rules, feel free to nuke my post or w/e.
The previous line was brought to you by the paranoid individual that I am.
this is some really nice info, ty
 
The most useful post so far.
 
Back
Top