Price gougers GOD DAMN YOU![M]

[Pascal]

Just a general comment about economics, both socialist and capitalist economies are founding in very good beliefs that are meant to better the people. The real problem is neither system has enough checks or balances, thus allowing it to be easily corrupted and manipulated.

I resent that remark. There is nothing that could be considered a "redeeming feature" to communism/socialism. (And yes, I've read the Communist Manifesto.)

(And No, I've never read the Communist Manifesto)

 

[Pascal]

And on a releated note, price gouging the Flu Shot.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/16/health/main649770.shtml

That is capitalism at its finest. My flu shot this year cost me $160.00 where last year it only cost me around $20.00.

 

[Tyrion]

Socialism is all around you and you take part in it, does not mean you are a communist or accept the communist views. The essential idea and goal of Socialism is to abolish money and greed from the world, so all people are equal. The same goal that democracy originally had, but it too has fallen victim to the corruption of money.

>_< I don't want to have this argument, but I can't stop.

The kind of Capitalist Democracy we have in the US is about equality of opportunity, which is good - everybody has the same chances other people have. It doesn't work properly all of the time, but it is far, far better than the alternative.

And what, exactly, is wrong with (as you put it) "greed"? I prefer to call it rational self-intrest. Was the personal computer you typed that message on made for the GOOD OF THE PEOPLE, or was it designed, built, and programmed by people working for their own rational self-intrest?

It just floors me how many people around the world have wanted to come to America to get a better life, and how many people who have known nothing but the freedom and prosperity of America and still rail against it. :roll:

 

[Pascal]

>_< I don't want to have this argument, but I can't stop.

We can stop it at any time, I just enjoy debating, I find it broadens people’s horizons as we as my own, plus you can put up an intelligent argument against my argument.

The kind of Capitalist Democracy we have in the US is about equality of opportunity, which is good - everybody has the same chances other people have. It doesn't work properly all of the time, but it is far, far better than the alternative.

As you have just stated it does not work all the time, and the balance that keeps it in check is Socialist Democracy (not to be confused with Socialist Communism). If you look back historically to our economy during the industrial revolution, people worked in sweat shop conditions, where paid sub standard wages and where forced to work extreme amounts of hours just to keep up with living expenses. The Socialist movement in the US changed this by establishing minimal wages, a maximal work week and standards of work conditions “for the people”. Thus balancing the system back out. If capitalism in its idea form worked, then we would not have need of such things. It was also the Socialist movement which established the public school system so we could all have at least a basic education, rather than only those who could afford it. All of the things I have listed in my posts you are benefiting from, no matter if you like socialism or not. The only reason you do not hear it referred to as Socialism it because the whole stigmatism put on it by the “Cold War”, where if you had socialist views, you automatically became a communist. The reason so many democrats where accused of being communists during this time is because the democrats have socialist views on most issues.

And what, exactly, is wrong with (as you put it) "greed"? I prefer to call it rational self-intrest. Was the personal computer you typed that message on made for the GOOD OF THE PEOPLE, or was it designed, built, and programmed by people working for their own rational self-intrest?

I understand your example, but that is a bad example, simple because a large amount of the parts in my computer where built out of this country, including a few parts made in China. There is nothing wrong with the acquisition of wealth, but when you directly effect and prevent someone else’s equal right to gain the same amount of wealth, then it becomes greed. (Wealth used in a broad term, not just money)

It just floors me how many people around the world have wanted to come to America to get a better life, and how many people who have known nothing but the freedom and prosperity of America and still rail against it. :roll:

At no point did I say I was for Socialism or Capitalism, because I am not for an extreme of either. My original post was the core “ideas” of them were in the right place, but with out a balance, either system fails. As for people wanting to come to America, people immigrate into Canada, Great Britain, Japan and so on from America as well. It is not like everyone is only coming here. The reasons people choose to move, does not always have to do strictly with our economy.

Pure capitalism means zero government interferences, which is not what our economy is. The reason why is because there are two problems at the core of pure capitalism. Money equals power, and with that power you can take the right away from others to earn wealthy and it requires a class system to work, there must be common people and there must be rich people. If the system ever got one sided, the system would crash.

This is also why we have a two party political system, so that we have a balance of ideas. If extreme democrats or extreme republicans ever had absolute power, then we as a people would no longer live in a free country, but rather in a dictatorship. Since I’m pretty sure you are republican, I'd like to point out that Tony Blair is a member of the Labour Party, which tends to be a socialist party.

 

[Tyrion]

Im actually a libertarian/objectivist.

 

[Pascal]

Im actually a libertarian/objectivist.

Thou I do not know of any single political ideologies to cover me, I do tend to learn more towards the Libertarian view (as it is in NC). Not exactly sure what an objectivist views is, but I can assume simple based on the word. So I’m sure we actually have a lot in common.

 

[Tyrion]

(puts flame-retardant armor on)

Objectivism is the much-maligned philosophy of Ayn Rand. If you care to learn more, http://www.aynrand.org.

(every time I mention her stuff, I get flamed.)

 

[Sindern]

A good book by Ayn Rand that kinda explains her philosophy is "Atlas Shrugged". It's a long read but it's pretty good in it's own way.

 

[Direwolf]

You can not controll the economy. Periode. Socalism is about the goverment controlling the economy. Its also about giving to those who have not worked for it. In the end the economies of socalist countries becomes stagnant. The proof? The US and Japanese (the most capitilistic of the worlds economie) are in first. Now that China has admitted Comunism is just a waste of time it is quickly gaining ground.

Now this does not mean there should not be regulations, teh industrial revolution can show the harsher side of Capitalism.

Back to this quest though. You are the ones who are buying the stuff, you know damn well you can hop on the airship and go get it for cheaper.... you don't why?

 

[Sirelrohir]

Not sure this is true, but I heard that after the event is over, the staffs are gonna lose their latent abilities. This was apparently based on what happened last year. If thats the case, then this is a huge waste of time and money. Oh well.