Pulling and Incompetent players.

[OniTatsujin]

I've leveled a few jobs through the Dunes, Qufim, and Kazham and I've noticed a couple things with players.

1. Pulling- I've noticed that a lot of melee's don't even bother to get a ranged weapon, etc when they level(especcially Ninjas, and Theives). They want to avoid being puller, so they don't buy a ranged weapon or anything. I've had to pull as Bard and Black Mage, even though the Dark Knight could pull with Poison and it would be safer since my DEF is lower than theirs, and I've got to keep songs up, so it was more work, but whatever. Basically, when it comes to picking puller, everyone puts their finger on their nose and say "Not it!". I've seen too many Ninjas and Theives(not including the new player theives) that don't carry a ranged weapon, or anything, and ABSOLUTELY avoid being puller.

2. Tanking- When there is no PLD, or NIN around, you invite a WAR don't you? Yeah, so I invite a couple WAR's. Again with the finger on the nose deal. I've had to tank as SAM(Yeah, it works in the early levels however WAR does better IMO) however, I was also puller as well. I might as well be main healer while i'm at it. I've almost tanked as Theif before. At least I was competent in my abilities to tank as a non-tanking class.

3. Incompetent Players- Usually when i'm a melee, i always try to set up a skillchain, however, people like to think that it's retarded to skillchain. "Waah! It takes so long to set up one!" Ok, how does "Tachi: Enpi >> Burning Blade" take too long? "Waah! Timing is so difficult!" How the hell is counting to three after they do their weapon skill SO HARD? "TP reports are just useless battle spam!" It is not useful at all, i'd rather have you spam it every 10 seconds than not at all, I'd like to know when you are close to 100% TP.

These three can be associated with new players, however, i'm refering these off players that have leveled a job past 30, and sometimes even rank 5+(This falls under the thing that rank does not matter despute).

 

[masterorion]

I've leveled a few jobs through the Dunes, Qufim, and Kazham and I've noticed a couple things with players.

1. Pulling- I've noticed that a lot of melee's don't even bother to get a ranged weapon, etc when they level(especcially Ninjas, and Theives). They want to avoid being puller, so they don't buy a ranged weapon or anything. I've had to pull as Bard and Black Mage, even though the Dark Knight could pull with Poison and it would be safer since my DEF is lower than theirs, and I've got to keep songs up, so it was more work, but whatever. Basically, when it comes to picking puller, everyone puts their finger on their nose and say "Not it!". I've seen too many Ninjas and Theives(not including the new player theives) that don't carry a ranged weapon, or anything, and ABSOLUTELY avoid being puller.


These three can be associated with new players, however, i'm refering these off players that have leveled a job past 30, and sometimes even rank 5+(This falls under the thing that rank does not matter despute).

not trying to start a flame war, but if a nin is in party, chances are that he is tank...tanks shouldnt pull

 

[Daroth]

yeah if you want a puller get a damn thf or a ranger which is 100000000000000000000 times better unless your me the uber puller!

 

[vang]

Thf is the best pulling job.

End of story.

 

[Fyrus]

Why is THF the best pull class in your opinion? Just Curious.

 

[OniTatsujin]

I've leveled a few jobs through the Dunes, Qufim, and Kazham and I've noticed a couple things with players.

1. Pulling- I've noticed that a lot of melee's don't even bother to get a ranged weapon, etc when they level(especcially Ninjas, and Theives). They want to avoid being puller, so they don't buy a ranged weapon or anything. I've had to pull as Bard and Black Mage, even though the Dark Knight could pull with Poison and it would be safer since my DEF is lower than theirs, and I've got to keep songs up, so it was more work, but whatever. Basically, when it comes to picking puller, everyone puts their finger on their nose and say "Not it!". I've seen too many Ninjas and Theives(not including the new player theives) that don't carry a ranged weapon, or anything, and ABSOLUTELY avoid being puller.


These three can be associated with new players, however, i'm refering these off players that have leveled a job past 30, and sometimes even rank 5+(This falls under the thing that rank does not matter despute).

not trying to start a flame war, but if a nin is in party, chances are that he is tank...tanks shouldnt pull

Actually, NIN should be the only tank that pulls, early hate and since they have Blink, no damage the WHM or RDM has to cure.

yeah if you want a puller get a damn thf or a ranger

I don't mean to be an ass about this, but did you read the full post? I stated that Thieves i've partied with(the non-new player thieves) don't buy a ranged weapon or anything, they do that to avoid pulling. And to Add to it, if there were Rangers around, sure I would invite them, but throught out my whole time I think i've partied with three rangers. To top it off, the jobs that can pull far better than a black mage or bard, weren't competent enough to do so. So of course, I pulled, i'm not going to sit around playing "Not it!" games to get the exp. rolling in.

 

[Laur]

Pre 37 you shouldn't have a Nin pulling if they are also tanking. The recast time on Utsusemi:Ichi is quite slow and if your tank is losing shadows on the way back to camp he/she is just going to have to recast that much sooner and most likely there will be a time when it will not be possible to put any shadows up.

But I do agree with the original post, when leveling low jobs most melee do not have a ranged weapon when they should. I was leveling in the dunes the other day and we had a drk pulling with poison, well that was fine, except the drk felt the need to refill his mp after every battle and therefore creating any kind of exp chain was rather difficult.

 

[Fyrus]

THF is my first character, considering I've only been around about 6 months, I consider myself a newb in FFXI and even I have a flame boomerang that I maxed the skill at for my level.

I get asked by just about every group I join to pull for them. Since I played 5 years of Everquest I do know what I'm doing but I do NOT know why. I'm dying to know why some folks think THF is such a good pick for a puller. I can't think of any abilities that stand out to me at my level, being a mere 23. Is it the varied assortment of ranged weapons(boomerangs, bows, guns)?

 

[Fyrus]

THF is my first character, considering I've only been around about 6 months, I consider myself a newb in FFXI and even I have a flame boomerang that I maxed the skill at for my level.

I get asked by just about every group I join to pull for them. Since I played 5 years of Everquest I do know what I'm doing but I do NOT know why. I'm dying to know why some folks think THF is such a good pick for a puller. I can't think of any abilities that stand out to me at my level, being a mere 23. Is it the varied assortment of ranged weapons(boomerangs, bows, guns)?

 

[Fyrus]

THF is my first character, considering I've only been around about 6 months, I consider myself a newb in FFXI and even I have a flame boomerang that I maxed the skill at for my level.

I get asked by just about every group I join to pull for them. Since I played 5 years of Everquest I do know what I'm doing but I do NOT know why. I'm dying to know why some folks think THF is such a good pick for a puller. I can't think of any abilities that stand out to me at my level, being a mere 23. Is it the varied assortment of ranged weapons(boomerangs, bows, guns)?

 

[OniTatsujin]

Pre 37 you shouldn't have a Nin pulling if they are also tanking. The recast time on Utsusemi:Ichi is quite slow and if your tank is losing shadows on the way back to camp he/she is just going to have to recast that much sooner and most likely there will be a time when it will not be possible to put any shadows up.

Good point.

One thing I will add though, the whole time i've pulled, rarely have I gotten hit, only time really is when I'm casting a spell and the animation lags and keeps going and I can't move for half a second, then I get hit.

 

[Fyrus]

holy lag batman.... Sorry about the triple post... My puter is on the fritz.

 

[OniTatsujin]

THF is my first character, considering I've only been around about 6 months, I consider myself a newb in FFXI and even I have a flame boomerang that I maxed the skill at for my level.

I get asked by just about every group I join to pull for them. Since I played 5 years of Everquest I do know what I'm doing but I do NOT know why. I'm dying to know why some folks think THF is such a good pick for a puller. I can't think of any abilities that stand out to me at my level, being a mere 23. Is it the varied assortment of ranged weapons(boomerangs, bows, guns)?

lvl25, Flee, boosts your running speed. -But- that is a 5 minute cool down. Another reason is Evasion Boost, Thieves are harder to hit, which means less MP the healer or sub healer has to use. For pulling, I think both Ninja and Theif take the cake.

 

[Drewtaru]

Nins shouldnt pull..... simple as that.......

1 or 2 cures from the whm or rdm is nothing compared to an early provoke + utsusemi + whatever ninja tools (kurayami inparticular).

If nin WERE to pull:
the nin would have hell trying to set up for the 2nd utsusemi cast.... seeing how he already lost 2 out of 3 shadows on the pull and needs time to hold onto that last one long enough to recast utsu. Just like any other spell it's not inparticularly easy to cast and move at the same time.

If nin is going to pull and it work, it would have to be pretty short pulls and no ranged is needed.... simply kurayami^^ (yeah im a kurayamioholic)

As for RNG and THF pulls....
RNG pull attack is stronger and wide scan. Shadowbind for those MINOR mishaps.
THF has flee and perfect dodge... great for those bigger screwup pulls.

Storytime!!!!
I had a pretty good party. Was my THF at the time. Garlaige Citadel near Serket pop site fighting beetles. My whole party dies (and me being a THF/NIN didnt get much hate so im last on its hit list). The beetle had almost no health left after my 6 blinks and perfect dodge and my ace-finisher (sneak attack + hide... it saw through hide so SA never hit) were all used up. But i'd die in a few hits so was forced to run. Instead of zoning where there would have been countless bats ready to eat me... i ran around in circles... or laps rather. I ran 4 laps around those 2 island things around serket pop site before my war/nin got raised. Enroute for the 4th lap finisher i ask my war/nin to voke it off me which he quickly obliged although still weakened. He did with blink up and i ran in behind with a nice sneak attack and finished off the mob. 200something exp for the both of us.

I learned the art of running away since my BLM was in valkrum dunes.....
i also learned that running away is the worst thing to do as a BLM while i was still in valkurm dunes.... unless you're a thief^^

I run away... it's my job... its what i'm best at.... 8)

 

[Drewtaru]

oh... and 24+ THF and RNG often sub nin so they make much better pullers since they too will have utsusemi

 

[Direwolf]

I've leveled a few jobs through the Dunes, Qufim, and Kazham and I've noticed a couple things with players.

1. Pulling- I've noticed that a lot of melee's don't even bother to get a ranged weapon, etc when they level(especcially Ninjas, and Theives). They want to avoid being puller, so they don't buy a ranged weapon or anything. I've had to pull as Bard and Black Mage, even though the Dark Knight could pull with Poison and it would be safer since my DEF is lower than theirs, and I've got to keep songs up, so it was more work, but whatever. Basically, when it comes to picking puller, everyone puts their finger on their nose and say "Not it!". I've seen too many Ninjas and Theives(not including the new player theives) that don't carry a ranged weapon, or anything, and ABSOLUTELY avoid being puller.

2. Tanking- When there is no PLD, or NIN around, you invite a WAR don't you? Yeah, so I invite a couple WAR's. Again with the finger on the nose deal. I've had to tank as SAM(Yeah, it works in the early levels however WAR does better IMO) however, I was also puller as well. I might as well be main healer while i'm at it. I've almost tanked as Theif before. At least I was competent in my abilities to tank as a non-tanking class.

3. Incompetent Players- Usually when i'm a melee, i always try to set up a skillchain, however, people like to think that it's retarded to skillchain. "Waah! It takes so long to set up one!" Ok, how does "Tachi: Enpi >> Burning Blade" take too long? "Waah! Timing is so difficult!" How the hell is counting to three after they do their weapon skill SO HARD? "TP reports are just useless battle spam!" It is not useful at all, i'd rather have you spam it every 10 seconds than not at all, I'd like to know when you are close to 100% TP.

These three can be associated with new players, however, i'm refering these off players that have leveled a job past 30, and sometimes even rank 5+(This falls under the thing that rank does not matter despute).

When you get parties like this in teh dunes it is mildly inconvenient, there are after all like a hundred people partying there. When you get parties like thios in the 40s and 50s... Swear to god I got a party that decided not to skillchain in Kuftal Tunel.... I left party very shortly after when people started dying.

 

[Faedryth]

Kk I will pour my infinite wisdom into this topic. I have both Ranger and Thief at 50+ now so I have obviously done a lot of pulling. This is mainly to help the guy who wants to know about thief pulling etc.

First off, there are 3 widely accepted pulling classes. Thief, Ranger, and BARD! Bard is a very rare case and ONLY for kickass major time parties. The Bard runs out, grabs the next mob, and sleeps it. This is ONLY for parties that are doing like 6k+ I'd guess. Reason being is that bards dont really engage in battle, so they dont have to take time to disengage and stuff etc. I have only read about that so cant say for sure though I have pulled a few times as bard.

I get asked by just about every group I join to pull for them. Since I played 5 years of Everquest I do know what I'm doing but I do NOT know why. I'm dying to know why some folks think THF is such a good pick for a puller. I can't think of any abilities that stand out to me at my level, being a mere 23. Is it the varied assortment of ranged weapons(boomerangs, bows, guns)?

Alright I will now give you some of my experiences. Thief is better for many reasons. Thief have slower delay weapons for one. This is not extremely important, but when you are in a high traffic zone, a voker can snatch stuff from you. Also when mobs move around, you want to pull quickly. I cant tell you how many times Ive stood right behind a gobby who woulda smoked me if he turned to pull. Secondly, flee. Yes it is a five minute cooldown, but in most cases this will not even need to be used. Only times are when it moves towards you as you pull and you start getting hit either because you subbed Warrior or your shadows were down, etc. It gets used more at higher levels against faster enemies as well. Third, evasion. Thieves have the highest evasion in the game, obvious why that is important. Fourth, post -30, Thieves NEVER EVER get hit. Well not never ever, but maybe once a level tops. Your melee wont come close to pulling hate and your big dmg is all going to someone else. So by pulling, you get hate initially, but as soon as it is taken away, its gone. Ranger on the other hand, will most likely hit, whereas a thief will miss on the pulling shot. Even if it does, a Thief ranged attack is not something to call home about. But I have seen a Ranger pull hate from a fresh voke in two shots. So if you hit on the pull, tank vokes, Ranger shoots and pulls hate, that isnt a good situation. I have been in this situation before and while I usually live, you learn not to put yourself into it again. Finally, this is maybe a pointless one, but to me it is important. As a Thief, my damage comes from one attack a minute. My melee can add up, but the numbers show up on SATA. Now I want to do as much damage as possible to speed battles. When I pull, I know EXACTLY how long it will take me to get back to camp. So I can say I'm pulling, blast my SATA macro, get back and place hate, then do another SATA in about 10 seconds. This is awesome for multiple reasons. If battles are super quick, then SATA will be ready much qucker to repeat the process. If they are longer, I can get more SATA's into a battle. Also, I dont like to open with a SC. I know its best, but unless the first voker is /nin, I dont like them getting slammed while we get into position. That way SC is ready in 10 seconds or so. This is maybe a moot point, but an advantage to a good Thief.

Ranger is a great puller, but if you are a Ranger, and a Thief gets invited, expect any GOOD leader to hand your job over. Ranger has Widescan true, but honestly, you can get better results telling puller where the next mob is than Ranger going out anyways. There are scenarios when you will have multiple pullers as well. Crowded areas often result in this. When I play Ranger and there is another Ranger pulling, I follow them. That is a free shot for me. I use Crossbow. Not the most damaging weapon I realize until OBow, but I like the versatility it brings. It is my favorite weapon no doubt, and the lower price tag is just a bonus.

98% of the time, these are the pullers. Any job with ranged weapons can pull however. Just these two have the most experience and pulling is a crucial job. Perhaps one of THE most important. Something for all you mages to think about. Most pullers keep a good eye on MP, they dont need to be told when to pull and many find it rather annoying. They also usually have lots of experience so know when to cram an extra kill in for that chain 5. It might be a little risky, but I have seen a lot of party setups, and I can usually determine if it will happen or not.

Well that is my input. Hope it helps some. Faedryth out.

 

[Flameass]

Oh and add the Chicken Knife at THF58(or 59 not sure off the top of my head) and you can increase your pulling speed with a free flee once in a while.