QCDN The Democracy???

[K. Ishitar]

I don't want to nuke the flameboard - I just want people to not be total, absolute assholes to eachother and then blame everyone else when their toes get stepped on.

you mean maturity? Thats not here for the most part

 

[CmdrFly]

I don't want to nuke the flameboard - I just want people to not be total, absolute assholes to eachother and then blame everyone else when their toes get stepped on.

Hey it's a great source of entertainment, and the legitimate flames are nothing short of orgasmic to read most of the time. I'd hate to see it go more than I would love to, even though I hardly read it.

There's still a solid base of good people here mixed in with the "I'm l33t3r!" "now4i, ur moar f4ilzer den j3bus r!" folks. I don't know how to kick l33t3rs down a notch either so I've started to just read a couple sentences from some people's posts, determine if they're l33t3ring or not, then skip the rest if they are.

Yeah, I'm just trying to do my part to save the world from emissions that cars like yours produce. Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-aaaaaanks!

Why is it that every time I need a picture to use as reference, South Park fits the bill perfectly?

 

[RoM]

Baah forget it, this is like talking to a wall. You kinda remind me of peregrine at this point - you think you're jesus who's been nailed to a cross to die for some rediculous video game forum sins and should be recognized as such.

I don't want the recognition or to hang on the cross. What i want is a little validation given to how i am what i came to be around here and what the formative process was.

In short if you guys could manage mods and admin who knew how to run a board effectively they wouldn't come lookin to me for advice. To Sculli's credit he never cheered me on only to dump my advice and serve me up for the wolves to have at. In fact i was told that while my heart was in the right place we simply didn't have enough convictions in common. Something i wasen't aware he and alyada had in common until today. Something that could've easily been stemmed a couple weeks ago mid-way through this cloak and dagger bullshit.

Again, if you have to or had to come to me for insight and advice (Keep in mind i never initiated contact on these issues, they came to me). Then you should've just stepped down in the first place.

 

[Arien]

Wow, I never thought I'd say this but RoM is bringing the correct on this thread.

 

[RoM]

It's just this simple:

There's the rules. Don't like them or their enforcement don't fucking post. If you do and it's obvious you don't have a healthy respect for the rules or haven't read or comprehended them you've earned whatever you get no matter who you are.

Period.

We covered this in another thread not too long ago. Comprehension and enforcement are the keys. Both must be universal or the system fails.

I'm not saying mods and rules are beyond question. What i'm saying (and have said) is that a simple PM suffices instead of thread stalking mods from thread to thread looking to tear them down for fucking up. As to our recent state and the examples sighted here my PM to alyada sums it up quite clearly.

nuetral is BS. There's breaking the rules and not breaking the rules. What's the point of political manuevers? Exactly what, if anything, does anyone stand to lose by calling violations what they are no matter who they come from? Why even have a report post button if you or the staff or just going to ignore it based on who reports or who is reported?

It's not as if i would've thrown a shit fit if i had been busted for fucking up. I was kind of expecting the examples that needed to be made would fall at my doorstep at some point. 4.5 years and only 1 warning that was more Sculli flexing at me than anything else? You don't have to be one of those morons who simply can't stand my style to know there's somethign fishy there.

As a moderator it's your job to babysit. If you don't to put the time or the effort in to keeping idiotic internet people from mucking up your site or if you can't take the abuse that comes with the position when you fuck up then don't be one. Hell i've been babysitting mods, users, AND admin in that ammount of time. You're either a product of your environment or your environment is a product of you. I've been on the latter end for a few years now, can any of you say the same?

Thought not.

 

[Shyrra]

The whole "Us vs. Them" mentality coming from both "sides" is a really bad way to solve the issue. The mods are part of the community too, even though they DO have more "power" than the average poster.

 

[Lavi]

The whole "Us vs. Them" mentality coming from both "sides" is a really bad way to solve the issue. The mods are part of the community too, even though they DO have more "power" than the average poster.

But mods are the ones who have the power to enable change. A normal member cannot set a standard because just as easily as they start some form of change for the better, someone else can tear it right down in hopes of remaining the same.

 

[Shyrra]

But mods are the ones who have the power to enable change. A normal member cannot set a standard because just as easily as they start some form of change for the better, someone else can tear it right down in hopes of remaining the same.

Like I siad, they DO have more power, but you can't alienate them from the community, that creates this "Us Vs. Them" mentality, which creates tension.

 

[RoM]

Here's the crux of that: If you're not out to break the rules, haven't broken the rules, comprehend the rules, and post accordingly why should there be tension?

I daresay if the mods and admin do their job properly and the same standards are enforced the board over there really shouldn't be any tension because the only people making waves are those either planning to or already having had broken rules.

In the event tension does develop it's on the user to pursue either a better explanation or a resolution with the staff on a private or at the very least a respectable basis. Without the cries of abuse we've been hearing from the staff for god knows how long now.

If a user can't manage that blacklist, ROA, temp-ban, ban, and move the fuck on with your day knowing you're doing what you're suppose to around here. To quote alyada 'You should just learn to let things slide.' ... As a user, somehow the same logic doesn't hold for mods who, in theory, should be above the slander anyway given their position.

This whole discussion is summed up by the first 5 minutes of jesus christ superstar. Srsly. Too much heaven on your minds.

 

[Miros]

Oh snap, this thread is getting good...

 

[Kotsu]

The whole "Us vs. Them" mentality coming from both "sides" is a really bad way to solve the issue. The mods are part of the community too, even though they DO have more "power" than the average poster.

I wouldn't call it power as much as it is responsibility. The most they can do is direct the website in a path that's befitting to where they want it to grow. That said, force too quickly or the wrong way and you lose the community. What's a house without a foundation? They'll watch it all crumble. I'd say we just drop this shit because they are no different then you (plural, not you Shyrra) and I. The play sports, the play the game, and the willingly gave themselves more work to help progress this website and community. Don't like it, cry yourself to sleep or something. In the end, if a person has a problem with them then they should have proven to be mature enough to take the role and requested the oppertunity to make a difference. You don't win the game for your team while you're sitting on the bench.


-Edit: Note for RoM; I've never read the rules and I don't plan on creating tension. I'm just not an ass.

 

[Sabia]

A coach is only as good as his team. Same can be said for this board - the mods may be there to help point the way but without a good community of people backing them up it's a waste of time. I know I haven't done anything mod worthy really since the whole reeve thing came about but I know whenever I did something as a mod it was always for the benefit of the community even though some may not agree.

A mod or multiple mods can't mold this site into your dream board without the support of the community. I know why I stepped down after years of being a mod - it was because I was tired of being vilified by the community and cast out just because my name was green.

 

[Shyrra]

Sabia: The users are to blame!

RoM: The mods are to blame!

Both: /fail.

Love,
Shyrra.

 

[RoM]

-Edit: Note for RoM; I've never read the rules and I don't plan on creating tension. I'm just not an ass.

Speaking to my point you've made a respectable statement and related it even more respectively without causing tension so much as seeking to understand.

Unfortunately people like you don't tend to post a ton to subjects of this matter or those that relate.

It's like i was saying about the town-halls and 'open to suggestions' threads. There's like 20 of you on a good day who, without fail, care enough to provide input and feedback. Meanwhile when someone who's generally not up in the popularity poll who steps out of line there's a good solid 2-3x that that love to preach to the mods and yell, scream, and rail on when they couldn't be bothered to provide positive feedback when the opportunities are presented. Moreover they can't be bothered to reach a resolution respectable or otherwise in private so much as prostrate their sandy vaginas from thread to thread complaining about whatever happens to take their fancy expecting at the very most some attention for it.

The sad thing is i do what i do how i have at the behest of those in a position of authority and have for quite some time not for the attention but because i believed i was being put to use for the good of the community and board as a whole for people who share my vision of things which are rather simplistic at their core.

No, Shyrra. Everyone's to blame. The only people who can solve the problem are the staff. You can ask users not to be dicks till you're blue in the face. Staff are the only people who can restrain the influence of dicks based on the power they have. Like .. What i'm trying to say is that if the staff lead by example and build structure out of rules instead of trying to play neutral or shuffling for political reasons everyone wins unless they break the rules. Then that person loses, hard and singularly. The rest of the board points and smirks and doesn't repeat that guy's mistake. Not like the situation we found/find ourselves in now where mutliple people if not the entirety of the rule following population of the boards lose based on who's the flavor of the month and wether or not the mods like the taste.

There's no way to escape a moderate ammount of abuse in a position of authority over other people. You're not going to make everyone happy. Those who are unhappy have two options: respectable resolution and/or understanding and being a complete douche. Both groups of people are incredibly easy to deal with from a moderator or authoritave position.

And i want to be clear here. Sabia is about the furthest person from my mind when i rail on about mods, i don't want this to get personal on your count sabs. We can disagree only so far before it becomes apparent, to me at least, both of our points meet in the middle. Unfortunately it only takes a bad apple to spoil the bunch if the bunch don't give a crap about the bad apples. People, unlike apples, can raise an objection and deal with popularity issues on their own time.

 

[Shyrra]

No, Shyrra. Everyone's to blame. The only people who can solve the problem are the staff. You can ask users not to be dicks till you're blue in the face. Staff are the only people who can restrain the influence of dicks based on the power they have. Like .. What i'm trying to say is that if the staff lead by example and build structure out of rules instead of trying to play neutral or shuffling for political reasons everyone wins unless they break the rules. Then that person loses, hard and singularly. The rest of the board points and smirks and doesn't repeat that guy's mistake. Not like the situation we found/find ourselves in now where mutliple people if not the entirety of the rule following population of the boards lose based on who's the flavor of the month and wether or not the mods like the taste.

There's no way to escape a moderate ammount of abuse in a position of authority over other people. You're not going to make everyone happy. Those who are unhappy have two options: respectable resolution and/or understanding and being a complete douche. Both groups of people are incredibly easy to deal with from a moderator or authoritave position.

Yeah, pretty much what I've said all along! lawl. I don't really care either way, I enjoy reading the site the way it is now, if it gets changed, I'll probably still enjoy it then.

 

[Alyada]

But mods are the ones who have the power to enable change. A normal member cannot set a standard because just as easily as they start some form of change for the better, someone else can tear it right down in hopes of remaining the same.

Not really enable change. I mean, they can ban people, temp-ban people, remove unwanted bot posts, and generally try to smooth things over with the general populace when they do something. They don't have access to the underground of the board, so-to-say. They decide on the rules but they try to keep it up to Reeve to really set them in stone.

& it seems to me that, everytime they enable some sort of change the community gets up & arms about it (except bringing the FB back).

 

[Sabia]

Ho-ley christ, I'm not saying the users are wrong - I"m saying the ones that are constantly flaming mods are causing more of a problem than helping. They're usually the ones that need their posts locked/edited and are constantly flame baiting others and are usually the most vocal in the community. Mods are only human, they'll disagree they'll make mistakes but I'm trying to explain that they do their best. They're not out to get you, they're not playing faves, they're just trying to make the board work again, trying to find a nice middle ground - but I'm pretty sure after the latest bout of resignations they're feeling pretty shitty - I know I am.

Whatever, I'm done.

 

[RoM]

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=42089

Required reading, post 1.

But i come off like peregrine and i'm attacking mods tho...

If i read too much in to the 'people who flame mods' line then my appologies. I'm a little heated right now.

Wasen't so long ago i was hoping you guys would pick yourselves up by your boot straps and avoid this entire fiasco. The whole thing is just sad, made moreso by the fact it's a repeating pattern and actually decent staff members are being burned out or run off because it just never falls in to place and if it does it does for entirely too short a period.

 

[Alyada]

Notice how the only people protecting the mods right now are ex-mods. D:

 

[Myrrh]

I'm protecting the mods. Wheres my love!? D: