Question for all the SAM's

Darklion

Darklion

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Darklion
Now I know ppl are going to think this question is simple hands down, But I don't think so. Which Great Katana is better?

They both have the same Delay(450) but what sets them apart is the DMG. Shinsoku standin in at 80 while the more expensive Hagun stands in at a laughable 75.

Now when I was up and comin sam everyone would tell me STR > any possible thing in the world, but Now I dunno if thats the Case with these 2 GK's does the TP bounus Out do the +5 more DMG and the +5 Str and the added effect of TP drain?

Here are the stats on both Great Katanas. Help me out!




Shinsoku.gif


Hagun.jpg
 
Hagun, better damage weaponskills. (for less amount of time TPing)

However, if you find yourself going upwards of 200% TP while partying, before you skillchain (Even if you don't, if you wait till 200%+ to SC) Hagun is a waste of time, as the TP bonus only affects weaponskills used under 200% TP.
 
I agree

Hagun ftw, sold my Shinsoku few weeks ago. Ushikirimaru from Zipacna actually as good or even better than Shinsoku. If you got enough STR, Hagun will out damage other GK on AH. Hagun 100TP -> 200TP which will out damage Shinsoku at 100TP, but if both GK at 300TP then Shinsoku will out damage Hagun since Hagun don't gain bonus TP at 300 and the damage on hagun only 75 compare to shinsoku 80 damage and 5STR. Most of the time you WS at 100TP, so over time hagun will do more. Again, people had told me that the DoT on the regular hits of shinsoku out damage Hagun.

In my opinion, STR is important for samurai but that not all sam need, Gorgets in sea also make huge differences. You should check them out Darklion. I have about 69STR base /thief (lvl 3 STR merited) and +67STR from the gears with hasso. Too poor to buy Triump Earrings. I use Brutal and Etherreal Earring. I did 1250 damage and sometime 1300 to the statues at Ulli camp, but the 1,300 is rare and the damage wasn't consistent all the time. When equip Aqua Gorget I lose 3STR which left with 64STR and done about 1,310 almost everytime.

Justice Torque from Jailer also good too but not familiar with it yet since I don't own one atm. Some of the sam out there own it, they should know the differences between Aqua and Torque.
 
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Hagun for 100%, like when yer at stuff like Dynamis, where yer WSing constantly. But, Shinsoku, or in my case USHIKIRIMARU, the drop from Zipacna, are overal better if yer the main SATA to send a skillchain w/ 300% on a god.

Hands down Hagun is the best. Consistant WSes under 200% is awesome considering it's even better for self SCs w/o Meikyo Shisui.

That's my opinion.
 
well, out of you endgame choices in reasonable grasp:

hagun
PRO: most popular, most practical, puts out good ws reguardless of sub in most cases, probably your best bet until you get full merits and/or top notch gear and can exsperiment with differant gk's. hagun will add 200-300 to any weaponskill.
CON: with only 75 base dmg, Tping isnt nearly your strong point. Michishiba get 3 more base DMG then hagun for only 420 delay. so this is a major downfall.

shinsoku
PRO: STR+5 and AGI+1, it's nice for /rng if you dont have sorobo.
CON: tp drain, the thing about it is, it's normally going to take you 7 swings to get 100% tp (1 of those being a previous ws), unless of course your 70+ and doing the 6/100 with store tp. So, shinsoku has to trigger 2-3 times in one round to make it anything worth it's merit.

Ushikirimaru
PRO: 82 base dmg, hellz ya, and 2 str too boot. Tp'ing in this is going to be your strong point. 7 DMG above hagun, your ws are going to come quite close to haguns ws. Also works well on behemoth and byakko.
CON: emnity+2 is one, no exp mobs realistacly to use the acc effect on.

Onimaru
PRO: atk18 and acc5 of course. and 83 dmg to go along with this latent. great Tp'ing GK. Best GK for 300tp ws so i hear.
CON: bad for drawn out fights where your in a sc.

i havent tested, but some other options worth testing in thier proper situation:

Michishiba (still working on my latent ><)
Kamewari (dont have one, deco weapons onry)
Kumokirimaru (want one badly looks very promising)

forgive spelling, typing in the dark.
 
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You guys are also leaving out the Soboro Sukehiro as an option. It'd suck on a big endgame HNM(where TP = really bad things happen), but for just about anything else it's all I really use. The DoT is far superior, and it's weaponskills are comparable to any other GK besides Hagun. When I borrowed a friend's Hagun and tested it, I wasn't all that impressed with the damage of the weaponskills, so I stuck with my soboro. If you get off on big numbers, then soboro isn't for you; but if you care about your total damage it's one of the best, and it's unmatched in terms of TP gain.

For big fights, Hagun would be best if you're going at 100-200% TP. If you're building up to 200% or more, Onimaru would probably be your best bet in terms of damage.
 
Shinsoku blows ass. Hagun 4tw. Pretty sure Hagun would out parse soboro in end game exp as well, just eye balling your DMG doesnt really mean your DMG is good. And I don't understand this concept of "DoT." Its like noone includes your WS dmg in that. Who gives a fuck what your melee damage is if your WS DMG and overall parse dmg sucks. Soboro is fun, but Hagun is the best overall GKT besides relic.

Shinsoku is just terrible though. Was the biggest mistake I made in terms of purchases. Luckily I bought it when ppl thought it was actually good and resold it to some poor soul for the same I got it for. Even if your at 300%, I'd just use Ushikirimaru, since its free, where as shinsoku is...well not. Its TP drain is *worthless.*
 
Zoolander said:
Shinsoku blows ass. Hagun 4tw. Pretty sure Hagun would out parse soboro in end game exp as well, just eye balling your DMG doesnt really mean your DMG is good. And I don't understand this concept of "DoT." Its like noone includes your WS dmg in that. Who gives a fuck what your melee damage is if your WS DMG and overall parse dmg sucks. Soboro is fun, but Hagun is the best overall GKT besides relic.

Shinsoku is just terrible though. Was the biggest mistake I made in terms of purchases. Luckily I bought it when ppl thought it was actually good and resold it to some poor soul for the same I got it for. Even if your at 300%, I'd just use Ushikirimaru, since its free, where as shinsoku is...well not. Its TP drain is *worthless.*
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The only thing hagun is good for is weapon skills, and my hagun weapon skills were not doing considerably more damage than with my soboro with +62 strength. I don't remember the exact numbers on the parse, but the two swords were approximating the same damage per fight. If your parse damage sucks with soboro, it's going to suck with hagun. Your weaponskill damage is lower, but you make up for it by doing 3x the weapon skills than you can with hagun. Where most samurai are doing 1-2 weaponskills per fight, I'm doing 4-5 without meditate. Based on my own admittedly limited testing, they parse about the same, and since I already have a soboro I didn't need to spend money on a hagun.

Apparently I'm one of the very very few samurai with a soboro, because I see to be the only one who thinks it's any good. Just about every other samurai swears by Hagun when they don't even have a soboro or seem to know anything about it. I'm surprised you're not still wearing osode full time for all the glory you're giving a single weapon without any consideration of another.

The reason why no one includes weaponskill damage in their DoT, is because it's not damage over time. A weaponskill is spike damage, it's a single attack that does massive damage; it'd be infinite damage over time if you try to count it the same way. They are both counted in your total damage, but they are two separate forms of damage.
 
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I like to use hagun for normal fights and xp just bc you are spamming ws every 100% tp and as they said it gives ya a nice boost. For big fights id say use shinsoku just because you most likely wont want to spam ws if you are going to die from taking hate; rather build tp to 300 and do one big ws every 2 min or so (depending on merits and af2). Id suggest Soboro Sukehiro when subbing rng which would give ya really fast tp to spam sidewinders. Besides that id say get the highest STR gear possible :) but thats just me. If you can id suggest just keeping all 3 of those because they are all 3 situational.

Corvinus said:
Justice Torque from Jailer also good too but not familiar with it yet since I don't own one atm. Some of the sam out there own it, they should know the differences between Aqua and Torque.
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When i started using gorget i saw my ws doing like 1200-1300 with 300 tp on those balls in sea. After i got torque i stopped using gorget and noticed ws was 1200-14??. The main thing i noticed was not having to use sushi on really higher lv mobs and hitting like 99% of the time which is pretty nice getting to use attack food. So in my experience of using both id say the torque would be a better use.
 
Hagun > Shinsoku

the tp bonus effect is greater than shinsoku's base dmg
 
In response to Baja:

Soboro IS nice even at higher levels, provided you have the gear to compensate for the seriously lacking base dmg. I don't have one myself (and I do want one), but I've seen it in action before, soloing albeit. I have to say I was impressed by how often the SAM fired off ws even without meditate, like you said. Many people go for the Hagun because of the increase in ws damage, but since the job of sam is to sc and sc often, Soboro is a wise choice as well, provided you have the gear to back it up.
 
Amanomurakumo ftw
 
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