Question of etiquette

[Fonzy]

ok, just a quick question for all you folks.

what is the consensus on zoning mobs past exp parties while getting links and the like.

I ask cause last night I was confronted with the very unwelcome situation of being in Gustav tunnels while exping at around level 40 on the resident low level Gobs. Well, it's a well known fact that the goblin shepperds leeches down near the high level gobs are primo for exp for BST at around level 50. Anyways, a BST trys to zone near past our low level ass' and ends up dying right on top of us, killing a party member before we get off escape. This happened 2 times, certainly not an intentional mpk but very inconsiderate. Another high level party below us was zoning the mobs as well. So my question, past qufim island where zoning mobs has consequences for other parties aside from just your own ass, is it really appropriate to just zone a mob and let the other partys deal with it? Is it cool to zone mobs at level 50 in Garlaige Citadel when you have level 32-35's exping near the zone? When does common courtesy overide saving your own ass, usually if a party get's a link it's either and unfortunate accident, a bad camp, or a shitty puller.


As a THF, if I get a link(even if you are the best puller you will get them), I either inform the party and try to deal with the mobs in party(agro mobs linking mobs only) through a mage/bard sleeping it, or just man up and take the death and wait for tractor/raise. Anyways, I get in a /shout argument with some jerk who says if you don't zone, no matter where you are at, you are just dumb, kind of irked me. Dropping high level mobs in a low level parties camp imo is a disgrace and a sign of how much more selfish FFXI players are than many other games

 

[Rylend]

A few things happen at the Zone line:

Puller ----

1. Bad Pull --- Puller finds a decent spot to die so he can be resurected (rarely happens)

2. Bad Pull --- Puller will zone the mob (call for help) and /shout that he has to zone monsters. Most Pullers should have a /shout Zone Macro set up to warn the folks at the Zone.

3. Bad Pull --- Puller will zone with out a single shout at all.

(# 2 & 3 will happen about 99% of the time and #1 will happen about 1% of the time)

Folk camping at the Zone:

1. Be prepared (everyone in the party) if somone notices a Thief (or 3-5 members of a party) sprint by all of a sudden, please let your party members know that they may have to high tail it to the zone line.

2. Be prepared because (my guess) is about 49 % of the time you will not get a /shout by the Zoning party or the puller of the monster

3. Be prepared because even if you get a shout it will normaly be when the Puller is on top of you not giving you much time to react.

4. Shit happens at the zone and in the end it is you and your party's responsibility for keeping your butts alive.

Bad pulls happen and in the excitement (for the puller) they may forget to do a /shout about zoning. Generaly zoning happens on accident so getting mad will not help out at all. Shouting battles will not help and trying to MPK them back will not work.

Now if the same guy/gal does it 3 times or more then well they deserve what ever they get (This is a whole new thread)

 

[Rylend]

A few things happen at the Zone line:

Puller ----

1. Bad Pull --- Puller finds a decent spot to die so he can be resurected (rarely happens)

2. Bad Pull --- Puller will zone the mob (call for help) and /shout that he has to zone monsters. Most Pullers should have a /shout Zone Macro set up to warn the folks at the Zone.

3. Bad Pull --- Puller will zone with out a single shout at all.

(# 2 & 3 will happen about 99% of the time and #1 will happen about 1% of the time)

Folk camping at the Zone:

1. Be prepared (everyone in the party) if somone notices a Thief (or 3-5 members of a party) sprint by all of a sudden, please let your party members know that they may have to high tail it to the zone line.

2. Be prepared because (my guess) is about 49 % of the time you will not get a /shout by the Zoning party or the puller of the monster

3. Be prepared because even if you get a shout it will normaly be when the Puller is on top of you not giving you much time to react.

4. Shit happens at the zone and in the end it is you and your party's responsibility for keeping your butts alive.

Bad pulls happen and in the excitement (for the puller) they may forget to do a /shout about zoning. Generaly zoning happens on accident so getting mad will not help out at all. Shouting battles will not help and trying to MPK them back will not work.

Now if the same guy/gal does it 3 times or more then well they deserve what ever they get (This is a whole new thread)

 

[Tymon]

Suprized the BST walked so far to zone it, there's a zone to Cape Teriggan right outside the tunnel with the Goblin's Leeches.

 

[Sneakypants]

I admit to having used all three solutions for a bad pull that Rylend mentioned.

I also agree with point number 4, regarding camping at a zone line.


Assuming the zone is not an MPK attempt, I would say that zoning a monster is just part of the game. Be aware of your surroundings. Camping a zone line is supposedly the remedy needed for that quick getaway...If you are camping the zone and someone brings an add, or a higher level monster to zone, JUST ZONE...And live to fight another day.

Annoying? Sure. But what can you do about someone else's actions? Not a damn thing. Just know how to run your ass out, with the quickness.

 

[Rappa]

The simple fact of the matter is that most people don't give a rat's ass what happens as long as they don't die. I was levelling BST with my duo partner last night in Crawler's Nest and someone zoned a Rumble Crawler, Soldier Crawler, and about 15 Worker Crawlers. I can't even begin to guess how many people zoned into CN and immediately died. Maybe 30 minutes after the zoning, we were replacing our pets and got aggro from the Soldier Crawler and my partner died, though I managed to finish it off eventually. Not much I could do when the Rumble and three of his Worker friends came after me though.

 

[Fonzy]

pulling

Suprized the BST walked so far to zone it, there's a zone to Cape Teriggan right outside the tunnel with the Goblin's Leeches.

2 parties where at the valkurm dunes zone already so exping there wasn't practical, we picked a camp right up above the Wyverynpoacher spawn area 56-60 exp area. You can make really nice chains here on goblins and, <bold>yes</bold>, Lizzy's as well(they are soft but tank has to tank backwards). So on way to Terrigan zone she had to pass through our party, we were not camped at any zone and only 3 of us could invis.

I understand noone wants to take a death and maybe this isn't the most extreme example, but I don't think it is considerate to just zone mobs after a certain level. Crawler's nest is a good example of just being a dick, I'll zone a beetle there if I get a link(chamber, nothing agro), but a soldier crawler or rumble crawler is just being a selfish dick. Remember, most parties have BLM(not all) and escape is always a viable option that most people don't want to consider cause it is usually a pain in the ass.

Listen I know links happen, I've had plenty and most aren't the pullers fault. Giving a warning isn't a get out of assholedom free card on it's own. I'm not guiltless in this matter but I can honestly say I have never killed a party member outside of my own cause I didn't want to die myself.

 

[Fonzy]

Re: pulling

Suprized the BST walked so far to zone it, there's a zone to Cape Teriggan right outside the tunnel with the Goblin's Leeches.

2 parties where at the valkurm dunes zone already so exping there wasn't practical, we picked a camp right up above the Wyverynpoacher spawn area 56-60 exp area. You can make really nice chains here on goblins and, yes, Lizzy's as well(they are soft but tank has to tank backwards). So on way to Terrigan zone she had to pass through our party, we were not camped at any zone and only 3 of us could invis.

I understand noone wants to take a death and maybe this isn't the most extreme example, but I don't think it is considerate to just zone mobs after a certain level. Crawler's nest is a good example of just being a dick, I'll zone a beetle there if I get a link(chamber, nothing agro), but a soldier crawler or rumble crawler is just being a selfish dick. Remember, most parties have BLM(not all) and escape is always a viable option that most people don't want to consider cause it is usually a pain in the ass.

Listen I know links happen, I've had plenty and most aren't the pullers fault. Giving a warning isn't a get out of assholedom free card on it's own. I'm not guiltless in this matter but I can honestly say I have never killed a party member outside of my own cause I didn't want to die myself.

 

[Rylend]

About the only way around this problem is to go to the very rarely used zones to lvl. With a bit of searching you can probably find a few diffrent spots to lvl at. The draw back is getting the players to move out of the cookie cutter leveling areas.

Otherwise, and I hate to say this but you will have to learn to deal with it (Zoned Monsters).

Oh and it seems that at High Lvls (lvl 50 and up) just as many people zone monsters as the lower lvls.

People are so worried about that EXP loss that they will do almost anything to stop it from happening.

Otherwise, and I hate to say this but you will have to learn to deal with it (Zoned Monsters).

 

[kodi]

2 parties where at the valkurm dunes zone already so exping there wasn't practical, we picked a camp right up above the Wyverynpoacher spawn area 56-60 exp area.

Having lvl'd BST in that area, I zoned quite a few times to Cape Terrigan. Had I run into a lvl 37-40 party in the area I would have been very surprised to find them in that area. I would imagine the BST was surprised to see a party of that lvl there as well.

I actually gave up on the Goblin Pets in that area. It's a very tense pull and just wasn't worth the rewards IMO.

 

[CmdrFly]

Personally I think this is just one of the disadvantages of camping near the zone. Sometimes people don't have the time (or brainpower) to warn anyone that might be there, so I would say it's moreso the zone-camping party's responsibility to be prepared for all hell to break loose.

Same with camping in an area where you know aggroing mobs will pop at some point... you choose to camp there, you understand there's a chance of a surprise pop / aggro / link. For some areas it's unavoidable due to a lack of good camps, but it still is the party's duty to know, understand, and be prepared for this.

 

[Sandria]

- I honestly think it is something we all learned to do as far back as Ronfaru, and have implimented into our exping experience. So often than not, as we move further up the lvls we continue to exp closest to zones. The higher one moves up the lvls, the more one is less likely to want to die and thus will be more apt to go to greater lengths to save exp loss.

- I have to agree with Kodi tho. It is very, very possible the bst did not anticipate that your party was there. I am curious if the person appologized or not. It is very possible that they mischarmed and paniced. Or, they were hoping to get in a recharm and was running it while waiting on the timer as I have had to do a time or two with slimes and leechs. Or in some cases.. assumed the worst that he was going to die and needed a safe spot to reraise or be raised.

Yes - he could've been a jerk and meant to kill your party. I guess I always try to give people the benifit of the doubt. I had a thf puller in Garliege Citadel that would often pull a linking bat.... she'd cue the party that she was bringing a link.. and proceed to zone the link... well..

I would keep expecting this bat to come back.. god, was wondering this for a good bit of time.. and just sorta patiently waiting.. bat never came.

I turn around.. the party behind us has dead members. I honestly felt bad for this sittuation - but, then at the same time, how do I politely explain to a puller of my party that you are by default mpking the party behind us?

 

[Aerandir]

Just the other night I was pulling in the Crawler's Nest, and accidently got a link. I chose to do what I always do, which is #1, find a good spot to die, and bite the bullet. A dark really shouldn't be pulling to begin with, but I accepted the job, and all that comes with it.

Besides the over all down time is less if the puller just eats it, as oppossed to risking his entire parties arse. So essentially the puller, in a lot of cases, will be better off exp wise just by dying, and making up the exp with less down time to the party.

Everyone respects someone willing to take one for the team.

 

[Lecan]

A dilemma really. Neither side is right. It isn't right for someone to say you should die for them, just for the sole purpose of not screwing them over. On the same note, it isn't right for somoene to zone 15 mobs if they know there is going to be a lot of trouble.

More or less, as a BST, I'm working with some pretty nasty mobs on a regular basis. I know these mobs can or will be stronger than the parties in the area, and generally will hurt them pretty bad if I have to zone. As a result, I've taken a policy of no zoning. Unless I'm in an empty area I won't zone. I'll do my best to rectify the situation (charming and releasing can go a long way) but if I can't, I just die. I may lose 1000 exp (I'm one of the few individuals without a bed) but the way I look at it, I'm costing a party 6,000 exp. 1,000 < 6,000, not to mention the common mentality that if a BST is in a 20 mile radius of a dead party, it was automatically his fault they died.

At any rate, my point is that really it's up to the discretion of the person zoning. My personal feelings is that you should try to fix your situation or eat the death, but others believe you should survive at all costs. Neither is wrong, so you just gotta deal with things as they come.

 

[Fonzy]

na

- - I have to agree with Kodi tho. It is very, very possible the bst did not anticipate that your party was there. I am curious if the person appologized or not. It is very possible that they mischarmed and paniced.

As I said previously, she did this 2 times, not once, but 2 timesi n the span of about 30 minutes. On the way down she saw our party and the other one as well. Both times she went down she saw our parties, she wasn't trying to mpk us, she was trying to exp in an area she obviously wasn't cut out for and instead of accepting that she decided to spare her own exp loss at the possible expense of others...... but that wasn't what bothered me the most.

What pissed me off was when I got into a /shout fight with the condescending little prick of a Taru in the other party who said only idiots will not zone a mob and that my party had half a brain for being upset about getting killed because of the selfish nature of so many in this game. And really if it all boiled down to you being responsible for your own party health and safety, noone should ever complain about MPK's because in all actuality, everything is fair and it's your fault if you can't handle a link or 20.

I'm aware it's every man/woman for themselves in this game. But I have to admit to never having met such a selfish community of online players as this game. But I guess for every dick willing to zone in Crawlers Nest, or Garlaige Citadel, there are people willing to do the right thing and take the exp loss. When you are puller you take on a certain type of responsibility, just like a PLD does, or a WHM does. It's your responsibility to keep exp flowing and safely return mobs back to camp. If you can't do it safely, you shouldn't be doing it at all. Accidents happen,links happen, how we deal with them is also a metaphor for how we play this game.

That's all I got to say
Thefonz

 

[Mokk]

My 2 gil, can't speak much for other people but:

When i get in a spot i know i'ma either possibly grab a link and need to zone or something just like pops up and screws my day up i weigh my options very quick

Option 1: stand there and take it to the grill while explaining to the party there's no way in hell i'ma make it either to camp or past that to a zone.

Option 2: ask the pt real quick how they wanna handle it i.e. try to take em and pray or bail out.

Sub-options for 2: if party wants to take it, inform them to get the hell away from other folks out of courtesy. if the party wants to zone then shout a warning in the nicest way possible informing camps that shit has hit the fan, it happens most people understand, and proceed to zone all the while using a say and/or shout to appologize for the inconvinience and warn people to get the hell out of dodge.

If yer training a massive link xping .. just take one to the grill, it's not the end of the world, no reason to screw an entire zone that's used for xping just cos you made a wrong turn or made a badly judged pull.

That's just me though .. may not be realistic to some folks but i attempt to be a nice guy in game on stuff like that, i've been there no need to raise someone's bloodpressure if you can help it.