Question to other Dynamis LS's

[Uzor]

The dynamis shell I ran for a short while did it's first Jeuno run on our 5th run. We had 18 people when we started. Before we got to the top of stairs one of our WHMs threw a fit and warped out, leaving us with one WHM. We had 3 BLM that run. We hit every extension, 3 hours of farming, nice deal.

3 days later, 4 BLMs 22 people, got our asses handed to us, only hitting 2 extensions.

A month later after a merge with another LS, 8 BLMs 26 people, every extension, and win.

Drops are going to happen how they happen. But there are a set number of mobs you kill before the win, and that number doesn't change. If you kill all of those mobs faster, you come out on top. Having only 3 BLMs will work, but not as well as having 8 BLMs.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's still easier stacking the important jobs over the weaker ones.

That's the thing, 3 BLMes make it just as good. All you really NEED BLMes for is to kill the stones. 3 BLMes can kill any stoens easily. Your melees can simply play TP burn on the mobs and kill them within 20 sec anyway.

While yes, a BLM could help nuke them down, but it wouldn't save that much time. The only thing BLMes is usefull for besides that is Sleepga II'ing adds. And I'd, in all honesty, rather they don't. Everything wake up at once and attack the same BLM? No thanks <.<; can be solved by having WAR's and NIN's provoke the mobs, yes, but accidents do happen.

And as you said yourself, 18 people got all extentions. It's easily doable. With 25 people we got all the extentions and could farm just fine before the boss, then kill the boss when there's around 10-15 min remaining, and then farm some afterwards. It really is not that hard to do with a limited ammount of mages.

 

[Mishaela]

Think the worst problem is, more people is supposed to mean faster, safer kills but alot of the time it's just counter-productive. The more of something (healer, DD, BLM, whatever) there is the more that group of people tend to slack, defeating the purpose of extra people. When there's less people they stand out more, and their screw-ups/slacking are more noticeable, thus they won't do it nearly as much.

 

[Uzor]

Think the worst problem is, more people is supposed to mean faster, safer kills but alot of the time it's just counter-productive. The more of something (healer, DD, BLM, whatever) there is the more that group of people tend to slack, defeating the purpose of extra people. When there's less people they stand out more, and their screw-ups/slacking are more noticeable, thus they won't do it nearly as much.

Well, I try to make it so that there's 1 sack holder in each party to keep track of their own party to make sure no one slacks off etc.

 

[meeze]

is it easier with 8 BLM instead of 3?

 

[Uzor]

is it easier with 8 BLM instead of 3?

Not really, we kill stones at the same speed. The reason we do slightly better is mostly due to the 18 or so extra melees, surprisingly enough. And we only have 6 BLMes, not 8

Well, we do have slightly more. me and another go as RDM, 1 go as THF. TH4 ftw.

So no, I wouldn't say it's much difference with 6 BLMes then with 3. Our BLMes did an awesome job killing stuff before. Our BLMes do an awesome job now too, so there's really not much difference xD

 

[Courtney]

I don't think you can clear the mobs of any dynamis zone in 2hrs, no matter how godly you are. The closest we came was within 1 stone of clearing bastok after getting all extensions including the win. And we had around 50-52 members in attendance that night, which also set records for most Relic and Single Coins.

from site:
Most Relic: 19, Bastok 11/14/06
Most 1c's: 304, Bastok 11/14/06

Of course people are happier with shorter runs, hell I would be too, but I think SE made it so the best LS's in the game would still have a hard time clearing the zone with a full 3hr run time, this means a full 3hrs of potential Relic drops and currency farming, which is probably better then running out of mobs after 2hrs.

If your arguing efficiency, then I would say the longer the run the more efficient use of time since you will be getting more drops and more chance of people getting what they want the longer you are in the zone and the more you can kill during your time in the zone increases that efficiency further.

One of the Shells I'm in clears Bastok with 55min remaining and Sandy with 30min remaining, with 35-40 people. I'd say with a 64 it would be very possible.

Surely clearing the zone faster is more efficient? I've never heard of killing more mobs or getting more drops by killing slower?



The reason Dynamis Shells have so many RDM/WHM/BLMs is because most endgame players have at least one of these jobs levelled. In endgame situations, these jobs are almost always needed, whereas a lot of jobs aren't. A Dynamis Shell may not take in 12 RDMs but it's likely that they have 12 members that play RDM...

 

[meeze]

There is also more chance of wipe in case of a link being pulled.

 

[Uzor]

There is also more chance of wipe in case of a link being pulled.

Not if your pullers are good

 

[meeze]

Not if your pullers are good

Geez, you'll argue just to argue. Even the best pullers get links because stones are fucking retarded, they liinger around and walk in circles before giving chase, meanwhile some other stone is coming by now, then he lingers and wanders into another stone.

Anyone who has pulled dynamis knows how retarded stones are.

 

[Stouter]

It's not that the shell actively recruits 12 rdms, it's that 12 of the people that sign up for the shell want to have rdm as their primary lot.

 

[Mishaela]

Geez, you'll argue just to argue. Even the best pullers get links because stones are fucking retarded, they liinger around and walk in circles before giving chase, meanwhile some other stone is coming by now, then he lingers and wanders into another stone.

Anyone who has pulled dynamis knows how retarded stones are.

Amen. Can't count how many times stones or their popped mobs will stop to cast crap like Blink, Stoneskin, AM or other stuff that quite literally guaruntees a link in some cases. =/

 

[Uzor]

Geez, you'll argue just to argue. Even the best pullers get links because stones are fucking retarded, they liinger around and walk in circles before giving chase, meanwhile some other stone is coming by now, then he lingers and wanders into another stone.

Anyone who has pulled dynamis knows how retarded stones are.

I've pulled Dynamis. I know. But if that happens for us, our puller do a suicide pull and have others claim mobs off of him. Like I said, our pullers don't mind dieing. that's why I <3 them

But in all honesty, they rarely ever link. I don't know how they do it, but it's almost always clean pulls. We wouldn't be nearly as succesfull as we are if it wasn't for them

 

[decidence]

Surely clearing the zone faster is more efficient? I've never heard of killing more mobs or getting more drops by killing slower?

For 99% of LS's the longer the run (more extensions recieved) the more efficient the loot pool. If you can clear the zone before the end of the run, obviously that is the most efficient.

 

[Uzor]

For 99% of LS's the longer the run (more extensions recieved) the more efficient the loot pool. If you can clear the zone before the end of the run, obviously that is the most efficient.

I think what he ment was that clearing the zone faster then they already are wouldn't result in more drops

 

[Courtney]

I think what he ment was that clearing the zone faster then they already are wouldn't result in more drops

Nope, actually I was questioning why he said running out of mobs in 2 hours was a bad thing, and taking longer to kill the mobs was a good thing. I was taking it to be a comment about tactics used by shells to kill, but I may have misread what he meant...

 

[Uzor]

Nope, actually I was questioning why he said running out of mobs in 2 hours was a bad thing, and taking longer to kill the mobs was a good thing. I was taking it to be a comment about tactics used by shells to kill, but I may have misread what he meant...

Well, that's basically the same thing xD Only it was a question rather then a statement

 

[Raesvelg]

On a side note, with the right RDM (Aragaeon) or WHM (Reya) I was never especially concerned about Hundred Fists even before the change to Sentinel. Besides, with enough people in the run, the things die too fast to worry about it that much regardless. These days I can practically sleep through Hundred Fists.

 

[Firestreak]

I just think if you're going to have 8 people as BLM main, then you should try and get as many of the different melees mains as well, to increase your kills. The trouble is that when you have 8 BLM and 1 SAM then the SAM gets the benefit of 8 BLM working for his AF and the 8 BLM only get 1 SAM working for their AF. I think that however many BLM mains you have should = how many of the other jobs you let in as mains.. assuming you don't cap out on members.

 

[Mishaela]

I just think if you're going to have 8 people as BLM main, then you should try and get as many of the different melees mains as well, to increase your kills. The trouble is that when you have 8 BLM and 1 SAM then the SAM gets the benefit of 8 BLM working for his AF and the 8 BLM only get 1 SAM working for their AF. I think that however many BLM mains you have should = how many of the other jobs you let in as mains.. assuming you don't cap out on members.

I mostly understand what you're referring to, but that's also not quite right to a degree, since you could very well wind up getting 8 BLM relic before the one SAM relic drop. Hell, my old LS got something like 5 THF hands, and we didn't see a single WAR Body.

 

[metachronism]

One of the Shells I'm in clears Bastok with 55min remaining and Sandy with 30min remaining, with 35-40 people. I'd say with a 64 it would be very possible.

Surely clearing the zone faster is more efficient? I've never heard of killing more mobs or getting more drops by killing slower?



The reason Dynamis Shells have so many RDM/WHM/BLMs is because most endgame players have at least one of these jobs levelled. In endgame situations, these jobs are almost always needed, whereas a lot of jobs aren't. A Dynamis Shell may not take in 12 RDMs but it's likely that they have 12 members that play RDM...

Clearing the zone is not what's difficult. What's difficult is maximizing the farming while still ensuring that other needs are met (i.e. getting wins for new people, getting attestations etc). The statistics deci quoted is for a "for the win" run in which the LS killed the boss with well over an hour left on the hourglass. Gone are the days in which you can book a zone at whim (especially on the contentious days), and it's imperative that you take things on the safe side if you have scheduled agendas to meet.

In all honesty, you can clear the cities with 30 people in under 2 hours if your melee jobs are overwhelmingly nin or war/nin and have bards. However, if you have an egalitarian LS which doesn't discriminate against people without the "optimal jobs" (which, I hope is true for most LSs out there), clearing in under 2 hours with such numbers, especially with an ensured win, is pretty difficult.

By the way, what is this about plds being scared of mnks? They could straight up tank mnks long before the sentinel update, and if it looked bad, they always had the option of kiting.