Question to other Dynamis LS's

metachronism said:
Clearing the zone is not what's difficult. What's difficult is maximizing the farming while still ensuring that other needs are met (i.e. getting wins for new people, getting attestations etc). The statistics deci quoted is for a "for the win" run in which the LS killed the boss with well over an hour left on the hourglass. Gone are the days in which you can book a zone at whim (especially on the contentious days), and it's imperative that you take things on the safe side if you have scheduled agendas to meet.

In all honesty, you can clear the cities with 30 people in under 2 hours if your melee jobs are overwhelmingly nin or war/nin and have bards. However, if you have an egalitarian LS which doesn't discriminate against people without the "optimal jobs" (which, I hope is true for most LSs out there), clearing in under 2 hours with such numbers, especially with an ensured win, is pretty difficult.

By the way, what is this about plds being scared of mnks? They could straight up tank mnks long before the sentinel update, and if it looked bad, they always had the option of kiting.
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Clearing the zone isn't defeating the boss, it's killing every last mob in the zone... By definition, it both maximises the farming, and gets you the win?
 
What made you think I was thinking otherwise...? Of course I'm talking about killing every mob in the zone. I'm saying if that was the primary objective, it's not that hard to pull off.

If all you cared about was city farming, the no-brainer is to kill the boss when your hourlgass is about to expire, and to use it only as a 30 min extension (other than sandy). However, as I mentioned before, LSs usually have other agendas to meet.

I don't know about your LS, but if the LS actually cares about the well-being of the members, it would not risk failing to obtain the win for that zone and potentially locking some new members out of northland runs by whatever accident which might occur. Hence, if you put wins at a higher priority than farming, you naturally would not delay the boss like that.

I hope I don't have to point out that the post-boss mobs are stronger. It should be obvious that the balance to strike is between the certainty of the win, and the ratio of the pre-boss mobs to the post-boss mobs. Most LS with a rolling roster would choose to take the guaranteed win and take the hit on the farming efficiency.

If you are under no pressure to meet win schedules and you have confidence that nothing will go wrong, yes, what you say sounds great. Unfortunately, I don't think most LSs can make the assumption that "nothing will go wrong."

Now, if you are mopping up the zones when you leave a big chunk of post-boss mobs, then I gather you're one of the merit job-heavy LSs which I mentioned earlier.
 
metachronism said:
What made you think I was thinking otherwise...? Of course I'm talking about killing every mob in the zone. I'm saying if that was the primary objective, it's not that hard to pull off.
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Because you are talking about a LS with 30 of the right jobs clearing zones in under 2 hours...

Because you keep indicating that somehow clearing a zone is counterproductive when a Linkshell has other aims? (which in a basic city I can only think are defeating the boss and getting AF2/coins...)

Killing all the mobs has to earn you the maximum AF2/coins.
Clearing the zone means killing most of the mobs before the Boss anyway. Whether they're stronger after the Boss (and I've never noticed them any stronger afterwards, they seem to die just as fast, but I'm not a mellee) isn't relevant as that happens after the boss is dead and your objective is achieved....

If it's not hard to pull off, then it should be the primary objective... everyone gets the win, you get the max AF2/coins, you can take 34 people with non optimal jobs, and everyone is out in under 2 hours.... I'm not seeing a downside there?
 
Courtney said:
Because you are talking about a LS with 30 of the right jobs clearing zones in under 2 hours...

Because you keep indicating that somehow clearing a zone is counterproductive when a Linkshell has other aims? (which in a basic city I can only think are defeating the boss and getting AF2/coins...)

Killing all the mobs has to earn you the maximum AF2/coins.
Clearing the zone means killing most of the mobs before the Boss anyway. Whether they're stronger after the Boss (and I've never noticed them any stronger afterwards, they seem to die just as fast, but I'm not a mellee) isn't relevant as that happens after the boss is dead and your objective is achieved....

If it's not hard to pull off, then it should be the primary objective... everyone gets the win, you get the max AF2/coins, you can take 34 people with non optimal jobs, and everyone is out in under 2 hours.... I'm not seeing a downside there?
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Why don't you try timing how long it takes to kill a pre-boss and a post-boss mob? If it appears the same to you, your group is either godly beyond anything I can imagine, or you are sorely in lack of the ability to observe <.< I would also add that you seemed to have missed the whole point about the priorities and not taking risks. Should you attempt the boss at 10 minutes to go and you somehow wipe, you can't recover from that and get the win.

~30 men LSs, if they meet the preconditions I mentioned, can clear a city zone in 2 hours, yes.
 
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metachronism said:
Why don't you try timing how long it takes to kill a pre-boss and a post-boss mob? If it appears the same to you, your group is either godly beyond anything I can imagine, or you are sorely in lack of the ability to observe <.< I would also add that you seemed to have missed the whole point about the priorities and not taking risks. Should you attempt the boss at 10 minutes to go and you somehow wipe, you can't recover from that and get the win.

~30 men LSs, if they meet the preconditions I mentioned, can clear a city zone in 2 hours, yes.
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But mobs being harder AFTER the Boss is dead cannot cause you problems in killing the boss....it's already dead...

Attempting the Boss with 10 minutes to go is a ridiculous example... it can't happen if you're clearing the zone because of all the mobs that pop after killing the Boss. There's also no way you can still be fighting initial pop mobs at the 2 hour 50 min mark (10 min before the end of Dynamis if you haven't killed the Boss) if you're capable of clearing the zone in under 2 hours....
 
...I'm sorry, I guess this whole thing went right over your head. Carry on and pretend you never read this thread, please.
 
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You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Have a good day ^^
 
I hope my time on qcdn will help some people score better on the reading comprehension sections of standardized tests. Please take note of where the conditional clauses are used, and try reading again.

This is why i hate having discussions on qcdn. People can't fucking read.
 
Jesus Christ meta, is it humanly possible for you to participate in a discussion outside of the flameboard without flaming? When people make eye contact with you out on the street and say hello, do you punch them in the face?
 
When someone descends upon a thread just to brag (that's basically what it comes down to), and keeps responding to everything within the scope of only what he posted, I think it is deserving of a mention?

The point is that a typical, heterogenous LS doesn't have the resources to just go and wipe everything in dynamis maps clean. The ones that can are the ones who are a) the ones in very high numbers, or b) ones who are selective about the participants. The extreme cases are ~30 member LSs clearing up cities and <20 member LSs killing all attestation mobs in 1 run. Yes, such LSs do exist, but not everyone can do that.

It's rather hard to have any sort of a discussion when the person who you're talking to is Marie Antoinette with the "let them eat cake" perspective on the whole subject. Yeah, it'd be really nice if you can just kill everything, wouldn't it?
 
someone said it was impossible, courtney said it was possible...then you yell at her for acting elitist, and then you say it is possible...dude wtf lol.
 
Would you care to add anything to the topic, or are you really here just to troll? Another illiterate bum? I don't think I've said a single thing that is contradictory. Care to point it out for me if you think there is anything, meeze?
 
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The topic is using only 3 blms, not bash a kaizen member cause you loathe kaizen.

Within that discussion came a discussion about what is more efficient. Most people believe more BLM= more efficiency, more or less because of the kills, but also because more blm make for better link control if bad pulls happen.

I haven't responded the last few pages because your dick is so hard from bashing a Kaizen member, and I didn't want to get too close to it.
 
metachronism said:
Would you care to add anything to the topic, or are you really here just to troll? Another illiterate bum? I don't think I've said a single thing that is contradictory. Care to point it out for me if you think there is anything, meeze?
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I wouldn't call it contradictory, but she was validating a fact that shells can clear zones with time to spare. The fact it is her shell made you come out and say she was just showing off.
 
If I may say so, I think you're the one who's getting a hard-on from pointless posts. Ever wonder why your "looking for a linkshell" post remains there without any response? You're free to draw uneducated conclusions about my attitude about certain groups, but the causal relationship between posts such as the one above, and the state of your thread doesn't require much to figure out.

What part of heterogeneity don't you understand? That involves having a distribution of jobs which actually reflect demographics, which, includes blms. Why don't you ask courtney to disclose the job configuration of the 35-man-zone-clear LS? Whether it be blms or merit jobs, I can tell you beforehand it's not going to have a distribution that's proportional to job demographics.

I mean really, do you need a serious answer on whether you can clear out zones with the aforementioned "3 of every job" configuration?
 
I'm still looking for a shell cause I don't kiss the ass of retards when they post stupid shit. I like to run my mouth, so I deal with it. Lucky LS that grabs me because I show up to everything, and am free a whole lot of the day.

Now, the argument is that Uzor thinks 3 of every job would be great. I say no, it isn't as efficient as stacking jobs that kill faster. Along the line, someone said you cant wipe a zone at all, Courtney said you can.

Now, here is the tricky part, when she tells us the job balance (or imbalance) my point will be proven because in fact, stacking jobs will allow you to clear a zone with plenty of time to spare.

Efficiency comes from fast kills, fast kills come from jobs that can...wait for it...kill FAST. If you want to clear zones (or do anything else in this game faster than the next guy) stack the right jobs.

Wonder why melee zerg kirin? It isn't becuase they have a shitload of DRGs and pups out there, it is because they stack wars, mnks, and brds.

Again, I'm sure you're bright enough to understand that, and you even acknowledged that LSs can in fact clear zones with time to boot, but you still attacked courtney for "showing off".
 
meeze said:
I'm still looking for a shell cause I don't kiss the ass of retards when they post stupid shit. I like to run my mouth, so I deal with it. Lucky LS that grabs me because I show up to everything, and am free a whole lot of the day.

Now, the argument is that Uzor thinks 3 of every job would be great. I say no, it isn't as efficient as stacking jobs that kill faster. Along the line, someone said you cant wipe a zone at all, Courtney said you can.

Now, here is the tricky part, when she tells us the job balance (or imbalance) my point will be proven because in fact, stacking jobs will allow you to clear a zone with plenty of time to spare.

Efficiency comes from fast kills, fast kills come from jobs that can...wait for it...kill FAST. If you want to clear zones (or do anything else in this game faster than the next guy) stack the right jobs.

Wonder why melee zerg kirin? It isn't becuase they have a shitload of DRGs and pups out there, it is because they stack wars, mnks, and brds.

Again, I'm sure you're bright enough to understand that, and you even acknowledged that LSs can in fact clear zones with time to boot, but you still attacked courtney for "showing off".
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Well, I couldn't have picked a better analogy myself. Thank you. It was about the equivalent of coming in to a "jobs you want for killing kirin" thread (clearly, meant for discussion amongst the community) and saying "well, my LS can kill it in x minutes using an army of kclub drks and ridill wars." That in itself, I don't have a problem with. Sure, you can do xyz. That's great. It adds nothing to the discussion for 99% of the people, but everyone can have their moment of vanity on a forum, no?

What I found obtuse and arrogant are the subsequent posts with "Well why don't you just melee zerg kirin? It's the best way. I don't get it" type of attitude *despite* the clear disclaimer that such methods are limited to those who impose certain types of restrictions on the participants (hence my suggestion to go and look at the conditional clauses which were apparently ignored the "first time around").

Is it rude for me to wash my hands of a poster if he's not even reading what was posted before responding? I find it amusing that people get angry at me for calling out people who are being "rude" in my books.

Well, rudeness or illiteracy, I don't know which it was, quite frankly. I decided to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was the latter.
 
metachronism said:
Well, I couldn't have picked a better analogy myself. Thank you. It was about the equivalent of coming in to a "jobs you want for killing kirin" thread (clearly, meant for discussion amongst the community) and saying "well, my LS can kill it in x minutes using an army of kclub drks and ridill wars." That in itself, I don't have a problem with. Sure, you can do xyz. That's great. It adds nothing to the discussion for 99% of the people, but everyone can have their moment of vanity on a forum, no?

What I found obtuse and arrogant are the subsequent posts with "Well why don't you just melee zerg kirin? It's the best way. I don't get it" type of attitude *despite* the clear disclaimer that such methods are limited to those who impose certain types of restrictions on the participants (hence my suggestion to go and look at the conditional clauses which were apparently ignored the "first time around").

Is it rude for me to wash my hands of a poster if he's not even reading what was posted before responding? I find it amusing that people get angry at me for calling out people who are being "rude" in my books.

Well, rudeness or illiteracy, I don't know which it was, quite frankly. I decided to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was the latter.
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well, the thing is, someone said you can't can't clear the zone with that much time to spare, she said yes, you proceeded to jump down her throat.

She wasn't boasting, she was correcting. Had she said, "i know a shell that can do it with 40 min left" you wouldn't have jumped down her throat.

The post she said her LS could do it, she had quoted Deci saying he thought it impossible. When in fact it is possible, you and her both agree on that.

Having balance of jobs will never be the most efficient in dynamis. Whether you are clearing full zones with time to spare with zerge jobs, or you are just going for clearing mobs before end boss with time spare. More BLMs and more overpowered jobs will net you the best result.
 
meeze said:
I'm still looking for a shell cause I don't kiss the ass of retards when they post stupid shit. I like to run my mouth, so I deal with it. Lucky LS that grabs me because I show up to everything, and am free a whole lot of the day.

Now, the argument is that Uzor thinks 3 of every job would be great. I say no, it isn't as efficient as stacking jobs that kill faster. Along the line, someone said you cant wipe a zone at all, Courtney said you can.

Now, here is the tricky part, when she tells us the job balance (or imbalance) my point will be proven because in fact, stacking jobs will allow you to clear a zone with plenty of time to spare.

Efficiency comes from fast kills, fast kills come from jobs that can...wait for it...kill FAST. If you want to clear zones (or do anything else in this game faster than the next guy) stack the right jobs.

Wonder why melee zerg kirin? It isn't becuase they have a shitload of DRGs and pups out there, it is because they stack wars, mnks, and brds.

Again, I'm sure you're bright enough to understand that, and you even acknowledged that LSs can in fact clear zones with time to boot, but you still attacked courtney for "showing off".
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I didn't say 3 of each job was the best way to go. I said it was it was possible to do it with just 3 of every job.

Certainly zerging everything with 20 WAR's, 30 BLMes, 5 BRD 5 RDM 5 WHM would lead to faster kills, but it'd also lead to people getting AF's very slow, thus being counter productive. I highly doubt people would stay very long when they don't have the AF they want even after 1 and a half year due to the huge ammount of WAR's and BLMes.

You can say you're extremely efficient, but getting AF's for the job they come as will be very slow unless you're extremely lucky, and I highly doubt anyone is that lucky. Thus, having 3 of every job would result in the most people getting the AF they want, while still being an efficient LS.
 
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