Question to other Dynamis LS's

[Psylentcuda]

I'm a big dumb idiot

Oh man this has really been a good thread for the past 50+ pages. Kid pulls a thesaurus out of his little desk and flips the pages until he find a relavent term. Then proceeds to talk about the topic without having a clue what he's talking about. My prediction, this gets moved to flameboards really fast since his epeen is obviously too big to accept he's been bested in a thread and bow out.

 

[metachronism]

Oh man this has really been a good thread for the past 50+ pages. Kid pulls a thesaurus out of his little desk and flips the pages until he find a relavent term. Then proceeds to talk about the topic without having a clue what he's talking about. My prediction, this gets moved to flameboards really fast since his epeen is obviously too big to accept he's been bested in a thread and bow out.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't expend so much effort to try to amuse morons like yourself. I don't use any terms you wouldn't see outside normal adult conversations. I do pity you if you need the assistance of a thesaurus to write a few English sentences.

If you want to get your intellectual level up to par, you can start out by learning to count to 17. Yes, 50 comes much after 17.

If you aren't a toady of one of the posters, and have a clue about the topic, go ahead, put in your two cents, instead of pathetically trying to save their face with useless commentary.

 

[Archmage]

there are tons of ways to make dynamis fun, most of which i get yelled at for doing, but still fun anyway

Things i have done recently.....

Let's review how I would react as a Dynamis Shell leader if you did this in my shell:

Ventrilo, We play 80's soundtrack music like "you're the best" and "danger zone" for some comical adrenaline

Well since my shell doesn't use this, yet, let's assume for a moment that we did and we used it to organize things. If it occured when we weren't trying to set up something major I wouldn't have a problem with it. If it happened while we were fighting a boss or something I might be even more amused, seems like those songs would fit an "epic dynamis battle" fairly well ^^

After clearing the stones as BLM i preceded to melee mobs and got the killshot on a quadav with a 22 point staff swing

lol I play BLM and I must admit I've considered doing that myself. I wouldn't have a problem with it at all, unless the BLM died from AoE and complained if didn't get a R3. lol "BLMs draw your weapons! Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ^^b

I tomahawked Wagnus.... so much fun.....

I'm not sure what a Wagnus is. If it's a charmed player I can forgive a little horseplay in that regard, but hitting charmed groups with Thundaga III would make me a bit peeved. Horseplay both parties consider fun = OK, needlessly slaughtering scores of charmed people to cost them their xp = X. If it happened too much though I might have to say something about it, but as an occasional activity might be a good release.

2 weeks ago we sang dynamis carols.... /sh while fighting, we actually didnt get yelled at for this, the leaders joined in..... "Marajade the AFK ranger... had a very lovely bow... and since he never shoots it, his DPS remains zero"
All in good fun, mara is actually a pretty good ranger.

Entertaining songs and stories in dynamis can be an excellent wait of breaking tension, easing boredom while waiting to recover from weakened, or just inject a bit of giddy feelings into the mix. ^^

fought as war in full I.M. armor and sang the power rangers theme song

lol sometimes it's all about the right costume. ^^

As war, fully buffing, everything i got and SATAing a slept mob (i have a rdm resleep it so it doesnt kill me... or anyone else) its fun to see what % you can knock it down too.

Sounds like you had the bases covered and it wasn't causing any problems. If you had done this I'd not have had any issues with it.

Getting mijin gakured.... was... well... i was pissed at the time, but it was pretty damn funny, i didnt get killed but rambaldi was more than happy to chi blast away my last 32 HP

See above post concerning horseplay and charmed people.

Some of these were at the cost of efficiency, most were not... but even so, keeping it interesting keeps me going, and its cool to see the leaders let us fool around sometimes, they recognize the grind it can be

Yeppers, dynamis is about more than drops, it's about fun and teamwork. It should be 3 hours of time with friends, a pleasure to attend, not something you feel forced to drudge through in order to get some piece of gear you feel you should have.

 

[meeze]

Vocabulary doesn't make you smart. Not having vocabulary doesn't make you stupid.

Derailing a thread because you hate Courtney/Kaizen for something she didn't even say makes you stupid. You can bitch and moan all you want about how people don't read what you're posting, and for the most part it is true. Mainly because you read shit that just isn't there. You're basing your whole argument in this thread on a lie your eyes told your scrabble based brain.

 

[metachronism]

Vocabulary doesn't make you smart. Not having vocabulary doesn't make you stupid.

Derailing a thread because you hate Courtney/Kaizen for something she didn't even say makes you stupid. You can bitch and moan all you want about how people don't read what you're posting, and for the most part it is true. Mainly because you read shit that just isn't there. You're basing your whole argument in this thread on a lie your eyes told your scrabble based brain.

You're right. Vocabulary doesn't make you smart. Not having vocabulary doesn't make you stupid either--just makes you look that way to anyone who is in a position to evaluate your intellectual level.

If the intellectual dearth of this forum is at a point where you need someone to say "I am an arrogant bitch who refuses to have a conversation outside the context of my elitist gameplay experience" in order to get the point, it truly is sad.

 

[meeze]

You're right. Vocabulary doesn't make you smart. Not having vocabulary doesn't make you stupid either--just makes you look that way to anyone who is in a position to evaluate your intellectual level.

If the intellectual dearth of this forum is at a point where you need someone to say "I am an arrogant bitch who refuses to have a conversation outside the context of my elitist gameplay experience" in order to get the point, it truly is sad.

Someone judging your intellect level would attack the childish way you attacked Courtney's comment based on the fact you oppose the LS she is in. You take stuff out of context, use quotes and imply truths in them, then tell everyone you are their intellectual superior.

They'd probably put you on the intellectual level of a middle school instegator. Bet you really sucked at that game telephone as a kid.

 

[Courtney]

Someone judging your intellect level would attack the childish way you attacked Courtney's comment based on the fact you oppose the LS she is in. You take stuff out of context, use quotes and imply truths in them, then tell everyone you are their intellectual superior.

I'm not even sure where that comes from... It's possible that Kaizen has had some run in with this guy in the past, but I honestly can't remember hearing his name before. Like I said before I'm the only Kaizen member in the Dynamis LS I've been talking about, and I'd be surprised if he even knows who the shell is.

I happy to have a discussion with anyone here. A discussion isn't a set of invented facts, and throwing temper tantrums when you don't get your own way though, and while he's behaving like that he can keep talking to himself ^^.

 

[Skaw]

You can pretty much link every one of Meta's arguements to bigotry. He probably hates Kaizen because he's Japanese. And he'll be damned if any second-class citizen American does things he can't/doesn't.

He probably argued with you because he'll be damned if any second-class citizen American excels at Dynamis more than his shell.

 

[metachronism]

I wonder if you are even aware of what it was that courtney said that made me bring the issue up in the first place? Since a lot of you guys seem to not even see it, here you go--and please actually read before making comments:

Going back. The original statement made by decidence:

I think SE made it so the best LS's in the game would still have a hard time clearing the zone with a full 3hr run time, this means a full 3hrs of potential Relic drops and currency farming, which is probably better then running out of mobs after 2hrs.

To which courtney replied

One of the Shells I'm in clears Bastok with 55min remaining and Sandy with 30min remaining, with 35-40 people. I'd say with a 64 it would be very possible.

Surely clearing the zone faster is more efficient? I've never heard of killing more mobs or getting more drops by killing slower?

Of course, what decidence was talking about was the fact that SE placed the number of mobs in the maps on the higher side so that the intended players (i.e. not ridiculously skewed groups) would not easily run out of mobs on a run. Of course, that's not courtney took it, as is obvious from the response ("let them eat cake" statement #1).

At this point, anyone who is familiar with Dynamis logistics would immediately know that the demographics of the kind of group courtney mentions is heavily skewed towards merit jobs + blms. And so, I point that out. Remember, this a response to someone saying Dynamis was meant by SE to be occupied for the full duration. Do you really think SE designed it for 3/4 of the participants to be drawn from a pool of 1/3 of the available jobs? The statement is about bombastic as saying kirin was meant to be killed in 5 minutes because people have zerged it down in less time with very skewed demographics. But as I said before, I've dismissed that.

What I found obtuse is what came later.

Should you attempt the boss at 10 minutes to go and you somehow wipe, you can't recover from that and get the win.

To which the reply was:

Attempting the Boss with 10 minutes to go is a ridiculous example... it can't happen if you're clearing the zone because of all the mobs that pop after killing the Boss. There's also no way you can still be fighting initial pop mobs at the 2 hour 50 min mark (10 min before the end of Dynamis if you haven't killed the Boss) if you're capable of clearing the zone in under 2 hours....

Why is the assumption that you're clearing the zone made? The answer better not be "because you mentioned clearing the zone" because I *clearly* disclaimered that there is a precondition attached to doing so: the skewed job distribution. And courtney did admit that the group he is with does indeed have such job distribution. If the assumption is "most people have those jobs leveled" (which artem *explicitly* said), that's "let them eat cake" #2.

Of course you can't be at the 10 min remaining mark with the boss remaining *if you are clearing the zone*. Guess what, most of the Dynamis LSs that are around are in the high30s to low 40s attendance range, and they *do not* go in assuming the zone will be cleared. Why? Because their demographics don't match up to the precondition. Just like most LSs don't run into Kirin with an army of kclub drks and ridill wars and talk about it as if that's the de facto strategy. And what would you think if people who do fight kirin that way came to a kirin strategy thread and talked as if experience and coordination were what enabled that. There's equipment involved in that case, but it's the same thing; it just make it even more exclusive. As much as courtney tried to make it sound as if the jobs don't matter, even his friends who tried to "help" were speaking on the assumption that the jobs *are* at the core of what enables small-scale short-time zone clears.

Just the fact that the job distribution in most LSs *don't* look like the aforementioned config should illustrate how outlandish the claims about "most people have war,nin,mnk,brd,rdm ,whm leveled" are.

Are you still going to tell me that there was nothing said that was elitist, and I was just imagining things?

Again, you are free to believe what you like about my opinion of certain people. I hope you know that I'm not even aware of what that LS's roster looks like. It just so happens that the ones I run into have a certain attitude that is common amongst them, which I find offensive.

And skaw, are you just dying to hear something along the lines of "Shut the hell up. You're the bottom of the barrel, even by the low american standards" or something from me?

 

[Skaw]

Man, if you consider me "bottom of the barrel," you're setting the bar pretty damn high.

 

[Uzor]

From those quotes Courtney didn't once say that all LS's could do it with 35-40 people with 55 min remaining. What she said, exactly, was that her shell do it with 55 min remaining, and surely that must be more effective then clearing it with 1 min remaining.

You're once again making up things that no one said. All arguments seem to fly above your head, and you keep repeating things she never said, for your own pathetic amusement.

But go ahead, do believe your arguments actually matter. It's the only time you'll get to feel you're "usefull".

You're right. Vocabulary doesn't make you smart. Not having vocabulary doesn't make you stupid either--just makes you look that way to anyone who is in a position to evaluate your intellectual level.

I don't think you're at a level to judge anyone's intellectual level, as has been proved several times in this thread.

 

[Courtney]

Of course, what decidence was talking about was the fact that SE placed the number of mobs in the maps on the higher side so that the intended players (i.e. not ridiculously skewed groups) would not easily run out of mobs on a run. Of course, that's not courtney took it, as is obvious from the response ("let them eat cake" statement #1).

And I misinterpreted what Decidence wrote. I wasn't sure that's what he meant, beceause he generally has a pretty good idea what he's talking about, so I wrote the response as a question. I had read his comment as being about player tactics, where in reality it was about SEs tactics in desinging the Dynamis zone. When it was pointed out I saw my mistake, and admitted that five posts before you even entered the thread. If you'd bother to read the rest of the thread you would have found it. Everyone else did and moved on.

What I found obtuse is what came later.

To which the reply was:

Why is the assumption that you're clearing the zone made? The answer better not be "because you mentioned clearing the zone" because I *clearly* disclaimered that there is a precondition attached to doing so: the skewed job distribution. And courtney did admit that the group he is with does indeed have such job distribution. If the assumption is "most people have those jobs leveled" (which artem *explicitly* said), that's "let them eat cake" #2.

You clearly claimed that 30 of the right jobs can easily clear Dynamis Zones in under two hours.

IF this is the case, then substituting other mellee classes for the optimal ones means that the zone should still be cleared. Increasing the number of mellees by a small number (say from 15 to 19 or from 20-26) should compensate for the lower damage output of so called non-optimal mellee jobs. You keep saying that with mellees other than MNK/NIN/WAR that you can't clear zones, and my opinion is that you're wrong.

The comment that "most players have these jobs levelled" was specifically the endgame players, and it was specifically the jobs NIN, WAR, MNK, BLM, WHM, RDM, BRD and THF. This is an endgame discussion and this is an endgame board (or it's supposed to be). Nowhere did I say that others can't contribute, or that they shouldn't be included. I've specifically told you that both shells I'm involved with have members with mellee jobs other than MNK/NIN/DRG, and that 30% less damage from some mellees (again, your figures) doesn't make that much of a difference.

You can keep ranting, insulting, petty name calling, throwing tantrums, etc for as long as you like. I've already wasted far too much time on you, and I'm not even sure why I've bothered because you've shown you're not interested...


edit: forgot THF in the "elitist" job list

 

[Courtney]

And as an aside,

5 minutes ago, on Quetz there were 399 level 75s logged in, and unanon.

53xBLM, 50xWHM, 49xNIN, 42xRDM, 39xTHF, 34xWAR, 26xMNK and 17xBRD.

Nearly 78% of the unanon 75s were playing one of the eight jobs I mentioned most endgame players as having, and that doesn't include any of the other 22% that have alt jobs in those eight.

Seems like "most" to me...

 

[metachronism]

Are you going to refute the fact that most dynamis LSs cannot center their configuration around predominantly merit jobs? If you are, please explain why the LSs would choose not to do so when they have the option. If you aren't, how can the claim about most people having the merit jobs leveled be true, unless you somehow exempt dynamis from being an "end game" activity? You can't have it both ways.

34 was the number? Why don't you see what you can come up with if you include just one of every pre-aht urghan job in the mix? That's 10 "melee" spots right there, and 5 mage spots. Add 4 blms? Sure. 4 more rdms? All right. 4 more whms? Okay. Oops, since you're assuming an upward of 19 melee positions (at least that was one number that looked reasonable in that gibberish of numbers), We can't have any more bards. In fact, we'd have to toss a few blm/rdm/whms. We want the TH so let's add 2 more thf. And just for shits and giggles, let's fill the rest up with 2 war 2 nin 2 mnk.

What did we end up with? 5 blm 5 rdm 5 whm 1 brd 1smn 3 war 3 nin 3 mnk 3 thf 1 pld 1 drg 1 drk 1 bst 1 sam 1 rng. Well, we gotta toss a couple blm/rdm/whm to stay at 34, so let's toss a rdm and whm.

5 blm 4 rdm 4 whm 1 brd 1 smn 3 war 3 nin 3 mnk 3 thf 1 pld 1 drg 1 drk 1 bst 1 sam 1 rng

Assuming you'd want the one brd to be singing for the blms, no melee jobs will have songs. 1 party doesn't have a whm. 1 party doesn't have any form of refresh. Does this look to you like a group that can clear out a city zone in 2 hours? I sure hope not. Feel free to juggle around the jobs, as long as you have at least 1 of each pre-aht urghan in there. I'm right with you in the opinion that they shouldn't be barred from participating. Since I couldn't find the post in which you purportedly answered what such a group would look like, I'd appreciate it if you'd take the opportunity now to do it.

By the way, the kind of people who'd be on, and be playing level 75 jobs at this time of the day are....? I don't need to say the rest, do I? I also hope you also remembered to filter out the JPs, as their most active hours have started.

 

[neophytal]

arguing with some people is like arguing with a wall............


except sometimes the wall at least makes more sense......

 

[Uzor]

Are you going to refute the fact that most dynamis LSs cannot center their configuration around predominantly merit jobs? If you are, please explain why the LSs would choose not to do so when they have the option. If you aren't, how can the claim about most people having the merit jobs leveled be true, unless you somehow exempt dynamis from being an "end game" activity? You can't have it both ways.

34 was the number? Why don't you see what you can come up with if you include just one of every pre-aht urghan job in the mix? That's 10 "melee" spots right there, and 5 mage spots. Add 4 blms? Sure. 4 more rdms? All right. 4 more whms? Okay. Oops, since you're assuming an upward of 19 melee positions (at least that was one number that looked reasonable in that gibberish of numbers), We can't have any more bards. In fact, we'd have to toss a few blm/rdm/whms. We want the TH so let's add 2 more thf. And just for shits and giggles, let's fill the rest up with 2 war 2 nin 2 mnk.

What did we end up with? 5 blm 5 rdm 5 whm 1 brd 1smn 3 war 3 nin 3 mnk 3 thf 1 pld 1 drg 1 drk 1 bst 1 sam 1 rng. Well, we gotta toss a couple blm/rdm/whm to stay at 34, so let's toss a rdm and whm.

5 blm 4 rdm 4 whm 1 brd 1 smn 3 war 3 nin 3 mnk 3 thf 1 pld 1 drg 1 drk 1 bst 1 sam 1 rng

Assuming you'd want the one brd to be singing for the blms, no melee jobs will have songs. 1 party doesn't have a whm. 1 party doesn't have any form of refresh. Does this look to you like a group that can clear out a city zone in 2 hours? I sure hope not. Feel free to juggle around the jobs, as long as you have at least 1 of each pre-aht urghan in there. I'm right with you in the opinion that they shouldn't be barred from participating. Since I couldn't find the post in which you purportedly answered what such a group would look like, I'd appreciate it if you'd take the opportunity now to do it.

By the way, the kind of people who'd be on, and be playing level 75 jobs at this time of the day are....? I don't need to say the rest, do I? I also hope you also remembered to filter out the JPs, as their most active hours have started.

You're doing it wrong. You're, once again, overkilling in the mage department. I'm used to doing Dynamis with small groups. you could beat it with this set up.

3 BLM 3 RDM 3WHM 3 BRD 3PLD 2NIN <- 17 (out of which 14 are the so-called "god jobs")
1WAR 1MNK <- 2, of the so called "god jobs" giving us 19 people total, or 16 "god jobs". This leaves us 17 more melees to throw in, for 2 full alliances. Let's try it, shall we?

3DRG 4DRK 4SAM 1RNG 1SMN 1COR 3THF <- 18 people. None of the so-called "leet job".

This is a rather well-balanced set up, in that the THF's can be spread out through the parties to give TH. The set up you could use is the following:

alliance 1

party 1: PLD, PLD, WHM, WHM, RDM, BRD <- this party is the "Tank party". They won't have a problem tanking, trust me.

party 2: BLM BLM BLM COR RDM THF <- This is the "stone party". They're there to keep the BLMes refreshed and alive. The THF is there for TH.

party 3: THF DRG SAM RNG DRK RDM <- pull party + random melee party. They're there to pull and to melee. The RDM there is their main healer, and is only really there to keep the puller alive during pulls.

alliance 2

party 1:DRG DRG DRK DRK DRK BRD <- melee party.

party 2: SAM SAM SAM MNK BRD SMN <- melee party. SMN is the healer and buffer

party 3: WAR NIN NIN PLD WHM BRD <- stone voker party + melee party. WHM is the healer.

This party will work just great, and only contains 1 WAR and MNK, and no more then 3 of the "godly jobs", like I reccomended before. Let me ask you something, why would you want "just 1 of every pre aht-urhgan melee job"? You're setting up retarded limitations that no one have discussed to prove your worthless point. You said it was impossible to do without a shitload of WAR's and MNK's, are you going to change your point and suddenly say no more then 1 of every melee job?

Every party doesn't need a WH Msicne every party won't end up tanking. You only need one job of anything that can heal. That includes RDM and SMN. As for refresh, you don't need refresh in every party, since there's MP and HP stones. The mage in question can also /heal to recover MP.

This isn't a merit party. Main healing in Dynamis in melee parties is no where near as hard as in melee parties, since the ONLY damage they'll take is from AoE attacks. And that won't happen often since you kill things fast. The only parties that really need a WHM are the tank party and the stone voker party, since they are the only parties that will be taking direct damage.

And yes, this set up can kill all the NM's in Xarcabard, and clear all of Wall of Eyes with more then 45 min left to farm. Hell, my LS have done it with 45 min left to farm with as little as 25 people, when we had no WAR's and 1 MNK, and only 2 BRD's and 2 RDMes. I said it before, and I'll say it again. You don't need more then 3 of every job.

 

[Artem]

oh no uzor that doesn't work COR is leet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not just about the jobs, it's about your experience and skill

Mobs in dynamis die in seconds regardless if you have 17 WAR or 17 DRG, you really only see the difference on NM's and bosses

It takes experience to handle large groups of monsters, because if you don't wipe at all, and don't take unnecessary pauses, it's a lot easier to clear zones.

 

[Uzor]

oh no uzor that doesn't work COR is leet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not just about the jobs, it's about your experience and skill

Mobs in dynamis die in seconds regardless if you have 17 WAR or 17 DRG, you really only see the difference on NM's and bosses

It takes experience to handle large groups of monsters, because if you don't wipe at all, and don't take unnecessary pauses, it's a lot easier to clear zones.

Yeah, it does take experience. If the same 35 people stay in the same shell for a year, they'll get better even if they always play the same job with the same equip and the same merits throughout the year.

 

[metachronism]

Uzor, are you saying that the configuration of 34...or rather, 36 you have given is capable of clearing out the zone in 2 hours? I think it goes without saying, but the band of 30 which did clear in 2 hours was... well, essentially an army of wars, very few of other jobs mixed in, and the obligatory mage/brd support staff. I don't think there need to be an argument made that the configuration you came up with will come anywhere near the same kill rate.

problem 1) alliance2 is in utter dearth of curing capabilities. If people exercise control and not take hate, yes, you might be able to get by in bastok. Sandoria? Out of the question. Jeuno and Windurst are not one of the zones commonly taken down in low numbers, but it goes without saying that the frying pans and other aoe will make it infeasible.

problem 2) fragility/low damage output. as you mentioned, you rely on the pld always maintaining hate. This means that your dd can't unleash WS right away on a new mob, and your kill rate suffers from that.

I think you missed the point. Everyone knows you can *do* dynamis without unrealistic confugurations like the army of wars--and that's how it was meant by SE to be done. You do that, I do that, and in fact, most NA dynamis LSs do that. They don't run in with a bunch of "god" jobs--as you put it--in low numbers and mow everything in the zone down.

As you can see from trying the "34 man worksheet" it should've been apparent that as you deviate from spartan configurations, that courtney's supposition of "well, just replace the merit melee jobs with other ones, but just add a few more" doesn't work--because the number of mages need to scale superlinearly to it as you lose the utsusemi casters (well, maybe you didn't, since some of your parties are unrealistically lacking in healing). You take more damage which needs to be cured. You lose utsusemi casters to crowd control. You can't spam WS at the beginning of a new mob. This is what I was referring to as the logistical problems that was totally overlooked.

 

[Rommie]

party 2: BLM BLM BLM COR RDM THF <- This is the "stone party". They're there to keep the BLMes refreshed and alive. The THF is there for TH.

Just to nitpick and because you seemed to want to teach a class on alliance design, this line is really preposterous.

If you want the COR to refresh the blms you should have at least given her the smn, and even that way, getting all blms in range of a roll will be pretty hard if they are all moving (as they should be) to nuke stones, help bring down mobs on 2hrs (Invin/PD), help on sleeps and stuns, and constantly stay out of range of any sort of AoE (including Mijin).

The way you have it, the blms will be getting (even in ideal "we are all in range for a roll" conditions) +matk and very weak refresh, which they don't need anyway with the rdm in the party. To be honest, blms really have no need for refresh with mp stones and the strenght of Aspir on double-dark weather with the correct equipment.

With something like WAR, DRK, SAM, SAM, COR, WHM you help your efficiency a lot more, since the significant +atk and +DA will give that party high damage rate and they will all be close (namely, around the mob) for the COR to keep them buffed full time. In fact, if she's good enough she'll be rolling for the WHM too to improve +hMP.