Question to the PUP's

Okay, I've lvled the job, and have talked to alot of higher Lvled PUPs. Yes, they do have a C skill in Hand-to-hand, which limits their weaponskills, but they pretty much get the hate-grabber ones, like Raging Fists.

You sub /NIN because when you use the pet command "Maneuver" (different elements), you're puppet becomes buffed up, in both stats, and other things pending upon the attatchments you have. However, at around 50+, your puppet (especially if it is Sharpshot or Valoredge models) will gain alot of hate because they will be doing very decent, consistent damage. And what I've noticed, is that my puppet isn't nearly as effected by Cocoon or STR down effects as me, the actual master, does. But when you use a Maneuver, you gain hate, not your puppet.

PUP is onl a damage dealer because at a certain point (20+), you will have various attachments and model choices/combos you can use.

Harlequin - starting model - RDM - uses Enfeebles only

Shadowalker - Lv. 10, 20, 30 model - RDM - uses nukes pending on magic lvl, and uses Enfeebles only with attachment ~~this one tends to generate somewhat alot of hate, according to PUPs I have talked too~~

Valoredge - Lv. 10, 20, 30 model - WAR - has Shield Bash, and has massive HP, STR, and VIT. ~~this one can participate in self-skillchains like Impaction, Distortion, and a few others pending on when you use a WS, and which WS you use. Also depends on its attachments~~

Sharpshot - Lv. 10, 20, 30 model - RNG - uses ranged attacks only ~~this one does the most damage out of all the models, but has a weaker DEF and HP. With several ENM 60 attachments like Drum Line, or simply lower Lv. Attachments, you can do severe damage with this one~~

Also, while lvling PUP, I have often found myself with hate. When you go PUP/WAR, PUP/MNK, or PUP/NIN, you're essentially a melee, who should have STR gear, and should be able to compensate for your loss of skill levels in Hand-to-hand. And, up from 10-30, most PUPs sub MNK. So, Martial Arts isn't a problem.

With the proper gear, PUP can take hate with Raging Fists or what not in the higher levels, seeing as how your puppet's hate rolls onto you if you use Maneuvers, hence the /NIN.
 
Taking 1 or 2 hits every fight does not a NIN sub make. Accidentally becoming the permanent tank of a party with one WS is the reason for a NIN sub, which is why MNKs do it. Or dual wield (can't do that on PUP) or pulling (Auto's for that).
 
Eeewwww pup >.>

I subbed whm for my pup, that uncommon now? O.o

Gah -.x I wasted 500k on that puppet ;;

Or so.

Hope it gets eaten by a whale!
 
I don't really buy that PUP's are the DD powerhouses that you're claiming Torqameda; I held hate off a PUP 2 levels higher than me with no problem, and no thf involved. With C skill, there's no way they'd be able to generate enough damage to pull hate on their own; and I wasn't impressed enough with the DD of the puppet to be able to generate that much hate either. It seems like the justification of /nin came from lower levels, where no tank can hold hate and just continued to higher levels.

As Ikari said, pulling hate briefly isn't a reason to declare you need /nin to survive; it's when you pull hate and hold on to it and start sucking up a bunch of MP that you can make that justification.

No clue why you started talking about the frames, I didn't care and it doesn't really give any info relevent to why PUP's sub nin; sounds more like advertisement for the job.

Edit: I was hoping for something other than just "I do too much damage, so I need /nin," but if that's the only reason I'm not impressed and it just sounds like PUP's want to be on the /nin bandwagon. If they're going to gimp themselves for no actual reason, I'm just going to have to avoid them; and until I see a PUP that's actually tanking rather than just having hate for a split second, I've never seen a good reason for /nin.
 
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Bajaratt said:
I don't really buy that PUP's are the DD powerhouses that you're claiming Torqameda; I held hate off a PUP 2 levels higher than me with no problem, and no thf involved. With C skill, there's no way they'd be able to generate enough damage to pull hate on their own; and I wasn't impressed enough with the DD of the puppet to be able to generate that much hate either. It seems like the justification of /nin came from lower levels, where no tank can hold hate and just continued to higher levels.

As Ikari said, pulling hate briefly isn't a reason to declare you need /nin to survive; it's when you pull hate and hold on to it and start sucking up a bunch of MP that you can make that justification.

No clue why you started talking about the frames, I didn't care and it doesn't really give any info relevent to why PUP's sub nin; sounds more like advertisement for the job.

Edit: I was hoping for something other than just "I do too much damage, so I need /nin," but if that's the only reason I'm not impressed and it just sounds like PUP's want to be on the /nin bandwagon. If they're going to gimp themselves for no actual reason, I'm just going to have to avoid them; and until I see a PUP that's actually tanking rather than just having hate for a split second, I've never seen a good reason for /nin.
Click to expand...

Hence lolpup.
 
Pasquale said:
Windy's right. Subbing /whm is good for what, 3 cures? That's hardly worth resting for. Selbina Milk ftw.
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3 cures?

I am galka...i wish I could /WHM and get 3 cures

/whm for Galka is really worthless 1-10
 
/NIN does absolutely nothing for PUP. I've seen people doing it and I want to smack them. I've done it once or twice to test it for soloing, but that was it.

74+ it might be useful for soloing, but that's about it. PUP's will not pull hate in any kind of decent party 40-ish+. Our "low" H2H skill and 'meh' STR shouldnt let us. /WAR is the only decent subjob for an EXP PT since you get Berserk, and DA after 50.

/WHM is where its at for soloing, I just wish my Puppet wasnt retarded.
 
Don't forget pup's shitty gear options, which are roughly analogous to Summoner's gear options (only with a LOWER combat skill, fancy that).

etchdog2000 said:
3 cures?

I am galka...i wish I could /WHM and get 3 cures

/whm for Galka is really worthless 1-10
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Race doesn't affect subjob MP.
 
Lanien said:
I really have no idea why they would sub NIN. Duel-wield does nothing for H2H. And with the right attachments, the pet would be doing more damage especially if using the ranged attack automaton. You wouldn't have a need for shadows since you wouldn't be getting hit. Kind of a waste of a sub.
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Dual Wield knives?

I bet a lot of Puppet Masters forgot they even had Dagger skill, equal to their hand to hand skill.

But then again, you'd be more effective as a party member subbing WHM and using Energy Drain to replenish your MP since you can't heal it back while puppets are fighting.
 
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supposedly DW tier 1 grants a 1% weapon delay definitely not enough reason but just to through that out there
 
I doubt Dagger WS would match up to the H2H WS, even if they do have the same skill.
 
Tagrineth said:
Race doesn't affect subjob MP.
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Yes it does.
Taru 75 Brd/Blm - 243 MP naked (3 MP merits)
Mithra 75 Nin/Blm - 186 MP naked (also 3 MP merits)

Hume/Mithra Nin/drk has 80 base MP, galka has like 32, taru has 140ish.

You get half the HP and MP of your subjob. A level 10 taru whm has 118 MP, subbing a lvl 10 whm as a taru gives you 59 MP. A level 10 galka whm has 56 MP, subbing a lvl 10 whm as a galk gives you 28 MP.
 
PUP here. /nin is very useful for soloing. But yeah, I don't know why they are subbing nin. I guess it's because /nin makes you auto-awesome.
 
Baja, wasn't intending to mean that PUP is a DD powerhouse, 'cause it deffinitely isn't. SE still has ALOT of work to do with PUP. But PUP's DD capabilities is greatly underestimated. Of course, they don't compare anything to MNK and what not.
 
Torqameda said:
Baja, wasn't intending to mean that PUP is a DD powerhouse, 'cause it deffinitely isn't. SE still has ALOT of work to do with PUP. But PUP's DD capabilities is greatly underestimated. Of course, they don't compare anything to MNK and what not.
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Or any DD with B+ or Higher skills =/
 
Torqameda said:
Baja, wasn't intending to mean that PUP is a DD powerhouse, 'cause it deffinitely isn't. SE still has ALOT of work to do with PUP. But PUP's DD capabilities is greatly underestimated. Of course, they don't compare anything to MNK and what not.
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Same can be said for most all the mage/support jobs, amirite?
But wait, even the mage/support jobs get SOME sortof melee gear. PUP gets...a 6att cape? Some L72 Assault Point gear? Rawr.
 
Take a look at Puppetmasters skills here:
Hand-to-Hand C 5 105 225
Dagger C- 5 105 220
Club D 4 101 210
Throwing C+ 5 105 230
Guard B 5 109 250
Evasion B 5 109 250
Parrying D 4 101 210

Now that is something to discuss! A "C+" in throwing, yet not a single proper throwing item for PUP. Possible future implementation of a throwing "Animator" perhaps? I aint got a clue, but I think thats the most laughable of all its skills. =P

Knives could work, I guess.. With the right subjobs. Still, I wonder what they are actually planning to do to improve the job, or even going to bother making use and/or improving current stats and skills/automaton. Oh well, guess we're gonna have to wait...
 
Because blink tanking PUPs are baller.
 
i've probally lvled pup more then anyone in this thread /sigh
why is everyone so mean? you don't know ANYTHING about the job yet you insult it?
(btw i barjaraat i pt'd with u're ninja? i didnt suck did i >.>)

okies to the point :3
Pup isn't like any job there is
since basically the puppet does like 50-80% of the damage
so sub isn't really important at all to be honest since even berserk wont really up my damage thaat much.

I've spent like 16mil on my gear(my character not puppet) but ..i suck XD i do very poor damage myself..buuut!! my pet does very very nice damage :o she is adding basically triple of what i do.(i use mage mostly)
so the master themselves shouldn't have to worry that much bout teh sub since... meh it wont make much difference (im gonna be trying brd sub at 50 for teh ballad and min/mad)
i can see /nin for people wanting to pull

Also if a pup never pulls hate of you it should mean anything? pup is like drg(drg can shed it) in the fact that it will almost never pull hate even from the SH**tty tanks because the damage is more evenly spread out then any other job....pulling hate is a sign of noobness :p since any decent player knows this is bad for downtime

vaible subs for the pup
/brd /thf /blu
/whm /rdm and a few others
/war /cor
/nin /drg
/mnk /rng

you get the point? pup is a support DD or back up healer or puller and can solo pretty good too.
the thing is it takes lots of GIL and SKILL to be a decent pup

with enough you will be on top :p (im talking bout the ENM attachments theyre awesome) since its like having 1 gimp player and one decent player with enough gil it becomes 1 decent player and 1 L33t player(the puppet itself) theyre damage will add up ^^ compared to one L33t player onry :P


P.s title is called "Question to the PUPs" so only pup can reply :P
 
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Ok, so what I got out of that was:

"lolPUP is bad, mmmkay?"
Welcome to FFXI, now go sit in the corner with BST and DRG. :P

"10 + 2 may as well still be 10"
Not quite sure what to say to that one. More damage is always a good thing, that's why we pay gil for Beetle Earrings +1 instead of going without ear equip.

"I've spent more gil on PUP than the job has equip slots."
Seriously, what are you doing, PCC + Astral rings + astral earring + buying every auto part the moment it comes out so it's at max price + HQ sole sushi starting from level 1 + HQ elemental staves for no reason?

"Only stupid PUPs pull hate"
I can agree to that.

"I can list pointless info like Torqameda too!"
Yes. People can sub things besides WAR NIN and WHM. We know. And they're still not as good in 99% of circumstances.

"Support DD!"
There is no such thing as a support DD. Either your job's purpose is to DD, or it is not. DRG is a DD. DRG has support abilities through WHM sub and Healing Breath, but they are not a "support DD." RDM is not a DD. RDM has DD abilities through bursting magic and enspells, but they are not a "support DD."

"Can somone show me how to use a parser?"



Lemme put it simply to you, the reason why we call it lolPUP.

PUPs actively try to be melee RDMs. Mediocre in everything, rather than focusing on one or two things and doing them well like every other job in the game. I hear a PUP/WAR with Sharpshot is a pretty good DD. But how many of those do you see?

*runs quick /sea all pup* Um... short answer, not many. 4 out of 13 subbing WAR, god knows if any are using Sharpshot due to lack of search comments, and the only one in a party is /THF.
 
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