RDM rant

[Fellina]

I got tired of hijacking the BCNM thread, and decided to strike out on my own. It's time to talk about the most loved/hated class in Vana'diel- the RDM.

Now, being only level 46 in this job, I'm no expert. In addition, I know that RDM is a highly situational job, and changes from party to party, and even player to player. But there are still some ground rules that need to be followed.

Number One: MELEE ONLY IF/WHEN IT WON'T SCREW OVER YOUR PARTY TO DO SO!!!! A RDM is NOT a melee class, it is a Mage class. We happen to be lucky enough to equip some good swords/daggers and armor, and gain some slight melee boosing capabilities. This does NOT turn you into a melee god. You see that DRK, or MNK, or DRG, or WAR, or NIN, or THF or even frikkin PLD? They WILL melee better than you. This doesn't mean you can NEVER melee, but for gods sake, don't make the mistake of thinking you HAVE to melee. If there's any kind of AoE you don't want to be in (sleep, silence, INT down, drainga, whatever) or even an AoE you do want to be in (coughballadcough) then your place is with the MAGES. As a red MAGE.

Number Two: GET ALL YOUR SPELLS, AND USE THEM. I know, that Dispel is soooooo expensive at 70K, but without it, you are an XP leech. Period. If you have Dispel, you need to learn when to use it. It is not the tank's job to tell you when to Dispel, nor is it the DD's. It is YOUR job to know when that spell needs to be used. There are a multitude of tricks you can use to see when mob buffs need to be stripped- changing font colors, setting damage to screen only, even watching the mob for the ability graphic. Use any and all, if you must, but LEARN TO DISPEL.

Number Three: USE AN APPROPRIATE SUBJOB. Sub NIN is fine- for soloing. If you're in a party, they don't need you to be utsusemiing up and blinking the mob to death. They need you there as a MAGE. And what is the best sub for a mage? That's right! ANOTHER MAGE JOB. NOT THF, or WAR, or NIN.

Number Four: REFRESH DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOD. Enough said.

 

[Neche]

Yep, I'm 61 RDM. I agree with most. If you sub BRD, and all you have is elemental spells no healing then /slap.

This does NOT turn you into a melee god. You see that DRK, or MNK, or DRG, or WAR, or NIN, or THF or even frikkin PLD? They WILL melee better than you.

DRK,MNK,DRG,WAR,NIN,THF Will out damage us. But Im a taru, and i still can out damage some of the PLD in a party position.

Dispel, although very vital, some rdm are in the back, back-up healing/debuffing and cannot see the mob properly to dispel it. Now with Mage type mobs you debuff/ silence, then spam dispel. Its our job to know the spell. but saying Dispel. While your waiting for tp to raise really, who cares its not tough to do.

Number Four: REFRESH DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOD. Enough said.

Your right, it doesn't make us god. But why do most pties need/want a rdm?




































Refresh.

 

[CubsWoo]

Yep, I'm 61 RDM. I agree with most. If you sub BRD, and all you have is elemental spells no healing then /slap.

This does NOT turn you into a melee god. You see that DRK, or MNK, or DRG, or WAR, or NIN, or THF or even frikkin PLD? They WILL melee better than you.

DRK,MNK,DRG,WAR,NIN,THF Will out damage us. But Im a taru, and i still can out damage some of the PLD in a party position.

You forgot SMN (in a avatar damage role), and SAM (RNG and BLM are obvious.) But outdamaging a PLD? Bullshit. The only way you're outdamaging a PLD is:

a) The PLD is using Earth Staff exclusively to tank, switching to sword/shield only for Shield Bash.

b) The PLD has a horrible sword, since their Sword rating is A+ and yours is, I believe, B+ at BEST. Plus some PLDs at that level are wearing Life Belts.

And if you're doing all the jobs you said you were in your responses to me, HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU GET TO SWING YOUR TOOTHPICK? But prove me wrong. Parser your data and wave it in front of my face, I'll be more than happy to be wrong.

Dispel, although very vital, some rdm are in the back, back-up healing/debuffing and cannot see the mob properly to dispel it. Now with Mage type mobs you debuff/ silence, then spam dispel. Its our job to know the spell. but saying Dispel. While your waiting for tp to raise really, who cares its not tough to do.

No, a 'good' backline RDM will have the proper filters up to see in the chat log when the mob puts up a buff that needs Dispel.

Number Four: REFRESH DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOD. Enough said.

Your right, it doesn't make us god. But why do most pties need/want a rdm?

Refresh.

You just showed me exactly why you're a RDM. "Well, we need Refresh, so may as well bring him along."

 

[Neche]

GOD YOUR SO FUCKING INTENT ON DISGRACING ME ARENT YOU.
GO FUCKING SEE. RDM Debuff, they backup heal.

Number Four: REFRESH DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOD. Enough said.

I JUST FUCKING PUT THAT TO MAKE A POINT. THE MAIN FUCKING REASON PEOPLE WANT A RDM IS FOR REFRESH. THEY DO MORE. I'M NOT IN THE FUCKING MOOD TO ARGUE. YOU GO FUCKING SEE. YOU'VE RESEARCHED ALL THE JOBS. YOU KNOW RDM DO MORE. YOU DO NOT GE TO HIGHER LEVELS WITHOUT LEARNING A FEW FUCKING THINGS. DO NOT UNDER FUCKING ESTIMATE ME!

 

[Neche]

I WILL TAKE YOU TO THE NEXT FUCKING PTY WE HAVE. I WILL HIT MOB ONCE, PLD WILL. I CAN ALMOST GARUNTEE I WILL OUTDAMAGE HIM!

 

[CubsWoo]

I WILL TAKE YOU TO THE NEXT FUCKING PTY WE HAVE. I WILL HIT MOB ONCE, PLD WILL. I CAN ALMOST GARUNTEE I WILL OUTDAMAGE HIM!

You, my friend, just summed up in one sentence how absolutely stupid you are.

Damage.

Over.

Time.

What the fuck does ONE HIT prove? Double Slap hits IT mobs for 500 or so every 55 seconds. Does this make me a DD class? No. HELL no. Because for the rest of that time, she's either not summoned, or is hitting for maybe 30 a swing to build TP for a Bursted Blizzard II. Any respectable DD should be able to hit for more than my avatar.

Run a damage parser. Party for two or three hours. Show me that your Damage Per Second is markedly better than the PLD's - WHILE STILL FULFILLING YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES.

Then do it three more times, and then I'll start to believe you.

Fellow posters, be aware of the descent into madness many antagonists take. They begin with good enough intentions, but then they begin to let emotion cloud their judgment, refuse to accept simple facts, such as

2+2=4

and begin to devolve into nothing more than dick swingers and shit-talkers. It's cute, really.

 

[Neche]

Again. The great cubswoo is right. Of course hes right. Cuz hes FUCKING CUBSWOO.

 

[Pascal]

Please go read the debate I posted earlier about Paladins. A Paladin is a Tank; he is not a Damage Dealer. Yes his sword is doing damage, but it’s not the point. His sword is doing damage to Generate hate, not to kill the monster. Trying to justify a Red Mage as a Damage Dealer, by comparing it to a Tank doesn’t work.

Do not get me wrong, I am a melee RDM, but the reasons I melee are not to make my self out to be a Damage Dealer, nor is it why I cast Nukes. I would explain, but it would really turn this into a really nasty debate.

 

[Pascal]

The one key reason I try to stress to all Red Mages, is we are there to make everyone else more effective at there job and at our own. We have armor, a sword, and a dagger for a reason. None of which is to ever be mistaken as being a Damage Dealer Class (including Black Mage). There are reasons why we have armor and weapons and when used correctly and for the right reasons they are very effective.

As for dispel, I have my Chat Filters on and my colors altered and I do hit it most of the time right on time, but it is still very easy to miss with all the other stuff popping up on my screen, plus everything else I am having to do. I have to look at the HP Bars and the Text Bars and from time to time, I have to look up at what is going on. It is very easy to miss. So by all means, please tell me to dispel if I need to. It is very easy to macro and people do not seem to have a problem creating Refresh macros. I do not turn on Damage on Screen only, because if by chance I do miss a Buff, the melee damage out put is the next best thing for me to tell, I need to dispel. Also Dispel was only 67k for me. This is one reason why fame is very important, but if by chance you do not have high fame, gets some one (You Trust) who does and have them buy it at the lower price. Conquest Ranking also makes a difference here!

As for refresh, I do not have it yet, but I am VERY aware of it. The biggest thing I have to say about this is to everyone else. We are not refresh whores. All are other spells are just as important as you getting refresh. Also we can not refresh everybody, just the same the white mage can not Regen everyone. We have to priorities, which mean somebody isn’t going to get it. Personally I think this should be covered ahead of time with the party so you do not have everyone and anyone screaming for Refresh.

I read a post once, of a RDM who got so upset with the “RDM Refresh Only” screaming, that he started to do nothing but Refresh. No other spells. They found out really fast how important Blind, Paralyze, Slow, Gravity and the rest of our spells really are.

 

[Fellina]

I should reiterate on the RDM Meleeing- and let me add that, given any opportunity to do so, I will jump right in and melee my little heart out. But for me, I melee because it's fun, and because it doesn't detract from my job, which is debuffing/refreshing/backup curing/magic bursting/add control. If you can do ALL those jobs, NOT be hit with a crippling AoE, and still melee, then by all means, do. But, if ANY of those things start to slip, or you find you don't have the MP pool to keep up with all those tasks, then you need to be hunkering down with the WHM and BLM.

 

[Mithe]

The full story on RDM in short-

Higher levels, you need one no matter what. No dispel? No thanks. No refresh? Again, massive exp loss. Only exception so far has been 1 single mob type. Velociraptors. They don't buff. Everything else mega buffs to hell and back.

Backup healing/debuffing. They're really good at it.

Problems- RDM are spoiled fucking rotten. Yea, I said it, and I don't care. 99% of the time every single one of my parties is stuck with a halfassed RDM who doesn't try his best, and we're all irritated as hell, but you know what? We can't boot him. Nobody can boot him. No dispel? No thanks. It's just how it works. I only know a few good RDMs in the entire game. The rest that I've met have been grade A slackers and idiots.

For the good RDMs, hey, I praise you, you're one in a million and I wish I could get more of you in my parties, but holy fuck.. I'm sick and tired of lazy sack of shit RDMs who ride dispel and refresh to high levels and don't do anything else.

Anyway RDM can melee fine and dandy. On the other hand, I do not recommend it to people that type below 100 WPM. If you can type over 100 WPM, you can melee and manually cast everything within one second or two and it's very easy and you look very impressive. For those of you still working on spelling out three letter words, stick to resting and macros targeting players please.

RDM with a brain that has good equipment and melees and catches dispels on time- I love you. Hell, I want to make love to you. Can we get married? Have my children please. PLEASE.

RDM with no staffs, debuffs that can't stick, misses dispels, and whines when somebody asks for refresh(roughly 90+% of them)- Please die. That is all.

 

[Songi_]

The full story on RDM in short-

Higher levels, you need one no matter what. No dispel? No thanks. No refresh? Again, massive exp loss. Only exception so far has been 1 single mob type. Velociraptors. They don't buff. Everything else mega buffs to hell and back.

Backup healing/debuffing. They're really good at it.

Problems- RDM are spoiled fucking rotten. Yea, I said it, and I don't care. 99% of the time every single one of my parties is stuck with a halfassed RDM who doesn't try his best, and we're all irritated as hell, but you know what? We can't boot him. Nobody can boot him. No dispel? No thanks. It's just how it works. I only know a few good RDMs in the entire game. The rest that I've met have been grade A slackers and idiots.

For the good RDMs, hey, I praise you, you're one in a million and I wish I could get more of you in my parties, but holy fuck.. I'm sick and tired of lazy sack of shit RDMs who ride dispel and refresh to high levels and don't do anything else.

Anyway RDM can melee fine and dandy. On the other hand, I do not recommend it to people that type below 100 WPM. If you can type over 100 WPM, you can melee and manually cast everything within one second or two and it's very easy and you look very impressive. For those of you still working on spelling out three letter words, stick to resting and macros targeting players please.

RDM with a brain that has good equipment and melees and catches dispels on time- I love you. Hell, I want to make love to you. Can we get married? Have my children please. PLEASE.

RDM with no staffs, debuffs that can't stick, misses dispels, and whines when somebody asks for refresh(roughly 90+% of them)- Please die. That is all.

A few comments. I know I'm not level 60+, but hear me out.

RDM seems to be replaced and beaten out by bard. I know bards aren't as common, but you don't need a RDM NO MATTER WHAT.

Need Dispel? No problem. We have Finale, and we get it for about 60K less. Yes, the drawback is the 24 second recast timer, however, it's better than nothing.

Need Refresh? There's a lovely tune called Ballad. At higher levels, bard can stack double ballad in a lot less time than rdm can cast refresh. Some people will say that you can't hit the PLD with ballad like you can refresh, but I will address that later.

Bards don't have the MP pool as RDMs. However, our enfeebles are free. Enfeebs can be covered by WHM and BLM, and bard can add Requiem, Elegy and Threnody to the mix. At level 40, I have 111 MP as a taru BRD/WHM. If I altered my gear, I could add more MP gear, but I've yet to need it, and I'd start eating pies before then. If a party is any good I shouldn't have time to cure.

Bards add melee buffs as well, of course.

Problems-BRD are spoled fucking rotten. Yup, it's true. We don't need expensive gear to function, and our spells are cheap. We get invites anyway. +1 instruments help a ton, and I can't believe so many bards get away without them (I mean really a cornette +1 costs 6K gil, you won't pay 6K to substantially increase the stat boost and time a song sticks that you'll be using from level 3-75?).

I rarely party with bards, because they are not common. On the off chance I do party with a bard, I get annoyed. They often lack even basic CHR gear. No Noble's ribbon. No Bird Whistle. No CHR rings. (I HUH?! I). Don't even mention the monster signa (overrated) or Mary's Horn (not worth the price). Further, they don't even know their fucking range. You CAN stick ballad on a Paladin and not the other melees if you try hard enough. Yeah, you can do it. It's not difficult for the bard at all. The hard part is making sure that people know where to stand and don't chase the fucking monster. You can also get minne on the PLD as well, it's all in the positioning. You CAN stick Mambo on a Ninja and not the other melees. It's not hard AT ALL. And guess what? RDM don't have a buff that increases evasion, or defense that stacks with protect.

Should we be able to get away with this stupidity? No. Do we? You bet.

Also, I avoid partying with RDM as my Bard at all costs. The one time you NEVER EVER EVER melee is when there is a bard in the party. WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD would you pass up ballad? And if you melee, I can't keep etude on you, either. Don't melee with a bard in the party. Please. The only way I can keep songs on you if you melee is if you stand in one spot, we have a ninja tank, and you don't move from that spot for the duration of the battle. Don't expect bards to be able to do that, it's extremely tricky, but it's all in the positioning. If you melee, you also better have equip macros for a wand. I haven't played with a RDM competent enough to get this off yet, but I will gladly provide ASCII diagrams of how a RDM can melee and still get ballad and etude with a ninja tank. I can ASCII the Mambo and Ballad on PLD, too, if anyone is interested.

 

[alanon]

Neche, let me add something to your being able to outdamage a Pld. Most Plds understand their JOB. They have a sword equipped based on certain stats that help them (Vit, HP, MP, Enmity, etc) and often times are not equipping the sword with the highest damage. I am sure that if a Pld equipped a greatsword he could outdamage you, but that is not his job. Hell as a Blm I sometimes melee when travelling somewhere and catch aggro from DC's. With a scyth I can considerably outdamage my pally. Does this mean that I should melee in an XP situation? HELL NO!!!

And Im so sick of hearing how Rdm's can do their job AND melee. Some are able to pull this off, but no where near as well as one who stands in the back with a wand and plays as a mage. There is also something besides refresh that gets you invites : Dispell.

To really turn up the heat here, if it comes down to the last spot in the party and there is a brd and rdm seeking, and I know nothing about either, give me the bard. It has nothing to do with which job is better, it's just that in my experience, it's not as much of a crapshoot with the bard.

 

[Pascal]

Ballad = Mage Pot
Ballad II = Mage Cocaine
Ballad + Ballad II = Mage Crack
Ballad + Ballad II + Refresh = Mage Crystal-Meth

 

[Tyrion]

Ballad = Mage Pot
Ballad II = Mage Cocaine
Ballad + Ballad II = Mage Crack
Ballad + Ballad II + Refresh = Mage Crystal-Meth

Ballad + Ballad II + Refresh + Juices + Chainspell = MAGE FUCKING FORCE OF NATURE. 8D

I wanna do that and then run through Valkurm with -ga spells and kill everything.

 

[Pascal]

SE gave BLM a scythe for a reason, I just haven’t figured out why.

 

[alanon]

SE gave BLM a scythe for a reason, I just haven’t figured out why.

Farming baby, farming. I went on a hunt for Tenshido fame this weekend. Went to giddeus and slaughtered Yags. In the old days, it would take 2-3 wacks with my wand or staff -OR- I would have to train farm which does tend to piss some people off. Now that I have the scyth, I go through Yags like BUTTA!!!! :lol:

Also, like i said killing aggro'n DC's when traveling, I can now help without using MP. Also for quests like tele-yhoat or tele-vahzl where killing is neccessary, it is helpful. Other than that, the scythe doesn't help.

 

[Mithe]

Yea, Songi, bards do basically the same important things except bards mega buff as opposed to being able to backup heal as well as RDM do. I mean, BRD are nice and all, but it's a miracle to even see 1 seeking party around my level. I never see them.. More people should play them. I remember having almost 500 attack the last time I partied with a bard. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Minuet owns.

They're kinda 50/50, though. BRD = RDM in comparison, I guess you could say. I've never had one actually do a better job than the other. But on the spoiled part, you're right for the most part.. but I do know that with there being so little bards, there is a larger percentage of them that actually throw down for a monster signa and all that nice stuff which makes most of them really nice to have around regardless. Benjoboy plays bard really well. Has signa and the whole 9 yards. Really good.

I think all it boils down to is that there are a lot of lazy people playing RDM. RDM can be such a godly job but some people just suck so much at it. The same can be said for Dragoon, except DRG doesn't have a staple place in parties, so they really get tossed into the shitter when verbal arguements bust out. I feel bad for them. I know a few really good DRGs but then again I know a lot more lazy DRGs who wear crap from 500 levels ago and make everybody else in their job look like ass the next time an invite rolls around. I'm totally off subject, though. D:

Let's call the ghostbusters to get rid of any lazy people playing RDM just looking for a free ride. GHOSTBUSTERS! After two movies, I think they can do it. Ghostbusters Pwn j00 Lazy Guy. The third movie.

 

[chpal]

Am I a lazy RDM:

I have about 60% of the spells at my lvl.
I meele but I also keep track of magic.
I havent figured out how to tell if Dispel wore off so I ask the tank to please tell me if I didnt notice.
I refresh the Tank and WHm before myself because usually I have more MP base than the whm.
I dont have a staff yet, but Im planning on buying only the dark staff. Maybe the light staff later on.

 

[Pascal]

Am I a lazy RDM:
I havent figured out how to tell if Dispel wore off so I ask the tank to please tell me if I didnt notice.

It doesn't wear off. Dispel strips whatever the last Buff the monster put on its self. Once casted, you do not need to cast it again until the monster has buffed it self again. So what you are looking for is Monster gains the effect of Godly Shell/Protect Spell.