REAL ID Act

[Norkio]

If this has been made.. well sorry.


Anyway, how many of you have heard about this? It was supposed to come in effect this year but has been cut off till 2011. More I read about it, more worried I get. I can't really explain it well myself but really good site I found, which is also against it, has a good in depth overview of the whole act.

I, myself, am highly against it....

Go to this this site here ~~~~> http://www.realnightmare.org/about/2/

 

[Figment]

one last F'CK you from Bush eh?

 

[Myrid]

I don't really see what's wrong with it. Just reading the facts on that page from the top, and skipping the speculation in the lower sections, it seems like it's something that state governments should have been doing long ago.

I dunno. I'm a stickler about checking peoples' IDs when checking someone out that pays with a credit card. Some state IDs are pretty dumb looking and look pretty easily reproducible (ie. kansas). If someone hands me an ID from a state I'm not familiar with, I don't know whether to accept it or not (If anyone's ever had a CC stolen, you'd know why I check ID).

While the privacy concerns are there ... I think there's worse things to be worried about, like the government trying to get into peoples' google search history. I doubt most places will have access to the actual national id database.

 

[Helius]

If they couldn't do it in 3 years, how can they do it in another 3? I don't see how they will impliment this and have it function correctly. If anything this is a step closer to "Minority Report" where they have the eye scanners. Until then, don't effing do it. It will be a pain to do almost anything here in the states, 'cause soon you know they will start putting scanners for the cards in malls and other stores and entrances to community housing sections.

 

[Falsey]

If you dont do anything wrong what do you have to be afraid of?

 

[Halifirien]

If you dont do anything wrong what do you have to be afraid of?

We're moving into a scary surveillance society where, at a click of a mouse, the government will eventually be able to confirm I paid 99 cents for a Cher song from iTunes and once rented Steel Magnolias. I don't need my carefully-constructed dude house of cards falling down because they're snooping on me!

 

[crookedmidget]

RealID is a typical bureaucratic knee-jerk reaction to attempt to solve a problem. In reality, the solution is akin to having an elephant in the back yard to rid the area of mosquitoes. This is dangerous on many fronts. An ineffective mitigation to a security vulnerability actually makes you less secure. Also, this is going to cost the taxpayers millions of dollars and all we get is more hassle and the issues identified will still be unmitigated. All for nothing.... Thanks a fucking lot.

 

[alanon]

Much ado about nothing. That particuliar link is a poor attempt at putting a "sky is falling" spin on it.

It really is not that big a deal. They are just looking to standardize the ID's (including the data structure that is already on the magnetic strips) and *shock* actually validating identity before giving an ID (alot of states already do this anyway). This is not just about security (though it has it's applications) but can also help with CC fraud, Identity theft, age verification, etc.

 

[beeznuts]

If you dont do anything wrong what do you have to be afraid of?

Just remember who defines "wrong"...

Hint: It isn't citizens.

 

[Bustaballs]

If you dont do anything wrong what do you have to be afraid of?

A corrupt, totalitarian government that has no respect for people's privacy. I like my fourth and tenth amendment rights, thanks. I don't need a handful of retards in D.C. going in my house and telling me I'm guilty until proven innocent.. or that I don't have a chance to prove my innocence.




http://www.unrealid.com/what.html

What Is 'Real ID'?
from the Hartford Courant, Oct. 30, 2001
Real ID = National ID Card

The REAL ID Act is a national ID card scheme that was passed by Congress back in 2005. It turns drivers licenses into national ID cards. There was no debate whatsoever on REAL ID as it was tacked onto a must-pass appropriations bill to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>> Browse the archive of faxes sent to Senators from this site...

Since it was passed, sixteen states have passed legislation rejecting REAL ID, making nation-wide implementation next to impossible.
So what, really, is REAL ID?

• A Multi-Billion Dollar Boondoggle.

According to Homeland Security's lowball guesstimates, it'll cost over 23 billion dollars to create this national ID card system. Almost 8 billion dollars of this will be paid by individual citizens through higher costs to obtain a REAL ID drivers license. Another 14.6 billion dollars for this is to be shouldered by the individual states.

• A Waste of Your Time.

Ready to renew your license? No matter how long you've had your drivers license, you'll have to get ahold of a Social Security Card with your full legal name on it (Married? Better fix your maiden name!), a certified copy of your birth certificate, and a ton of other documents just to renew or replace your license. Don't have them? That's your problem.

• A Boon to Criminals and Terrorists.

Once you do go through the trouble of getting your documents together, the DMV will make high-resolution digital copies and put them onto a computer network that can be accessed by any DMV worker, anywhere in the country. The data on your license or ID card will be able to be called-up by any federal or state agency, anywhere. And your information will be put in either a chip or unencrypted barcode on the back, making it easy for anyone to skim your personal information.

With so many databases sharing your information, all it takes is for one breach, anywhere in this massive data collection sharing system, and your information is out in the open, forever.

• A Back-Door National Gun Registry.

There are many states that don't respect the 2nd Amendment the way we do here in Alaska: gun registration in those states is often tied to drivers licenses. Once these state firearms databases are linked together with existing federal data systems, there begins the national gun registry. All that is then needed is to force all the pro-gun states to comply.

• A Threat to Freedom.

"Your Papers, Please" is not a phrase that sits well will freedom-loving Americans. A national ID card system flies in the face of everything we as Americans believe in. Across the country, the individual states are rising-up and saying 'no' to REAL ID. Now is the time for we citizens to stand-up for our fundamental rights and add our voice to the chorus.
What Do We Want From The Senate?

The REAL ID Act has never been debated on the US Senate floor. They've never talked about it in any committee. Heck, most of them haven't even read it! Yet they passed it unanimously, no questions asked back in 2005.

In order to make a single irresponsible Congressman with totalitarian leanings happy, the Senate leadership let him write the bill and then slipped it into a another bill, one that would keep our fighting men and women taken care of in Iraq and Afghanistan. Supporting our troops means making sure thy come home to a free nation, not a surveillance state.
The Senate Can Fix Their Mistake.

The Baucus-Tester and the Grassley-Baucus amendments to the current immigration bill making its way through the Senate will strip all REAL ID provisions from the bill. Fax your Senators and tell them to support these amendments and say 'No' to REAL ID in the Immigration Bill.

 

[Anttaru]

Anything to make the RFID chip look better.

 

[Falsey]

All you people post is biased articles and shit. Go to an objective source. If you dont break the laws, you have nothing to fear.

Dont kill anyone. Check. Dont steal. Check.

Complaining about this on a forum will get you nowhere. Either talk to your state official or stop posting biased shit.

 

[beeznuts]

All you people post is biased articles and shit. Go to an objective source. If you dont break the laws, you have nothing to fear.

Dont kill anyone. Check. Dont steal. Check.

Complaining about this on a forum will get you nowhere. Either talk to your state official or stop posting biased shit.

Maybe you should read what I said again.
The laws are defined by those in power, and as we see on a daily basis, these laws can be changed in favor of those in power. Federal government is trying to use state funding as leverage to blackmail the states into making sure this bill passes (Yeah, it's a states issue, but vote the wrong way and you'll lose funds...) The law today says that murder is wrong, and theft is wrong, but what happens when the law says that protest and criticism is wrong? It certainly sounds paranoid, and probably wouldn't happen all at once, but it is important that any government remain untrusted and under scrutiny. And what of the inevitable mixups that are bound to occur, if your ID stops working or says you are someone you aren't?

RealID by itself is a rather innocuous thing, but the slope is pretty slippery, and there's a lot of sinister stuff lying at the bottom. Simply put, there is no valid reason to implement this. Therefore it should not be. The powers of a government should be limited at every turn, not inflated.

I will give you one thing, though, you're absolutely right in that people who feel strongly about this should contact their state officials, and cast their votes against, and for the people who are against this crap. It's nonsense, it is a big deal, and while it may seem okay by itself, it's nothing more than a single piece of a lot bigger picture, and it isn't a pretty one.

 

[Falsey]

The thing is, I dont disagree with you. I am against the real ID. I just really dislike when people post biased sites/stories and then people all have touchie feelie time together.

Its like I'm a fan of Michael Moore, but I will be the first person to say he spins all his shit. Everything that comes out of that mans mouth is spun to benefit his cause, whatever it might be at the time.

 

[Bustaballs]

Being biased and having incorrect information are two different things.

 

[alanon]

I like my fourth and tenth amendment rights, thanks.

How is this a violation of either? I'm sure you will still need a warrant to be searched, and while the Federal government is putting considerable pressure by making things like airtravel difficult, they are not putting legal pressure on the states to accept this.

• A Boon to Criminals and Terrorists.

Once you do go through the trouble of getting your documents together, the DMV will make high-resolution digital copies and put them onto a computer network that can be accessed by any DMV worker, anywhere in the country. The data on your license or ID card will be able to be called-up by any federal or state agency, anywhere. And your information will be put in either a chip or unencrypted barcode on the back, making it easy for anyone to skim your personal information.

With so many databases sharing your information, all it takes is for one breach, anywhere in this massive data collection sharing system, and your information is out in the open, forever.

I got news for you, this is all out there already. I do a lot of computer work for court systems here in ohio. PO's have shown me the State database where they can search for a name, and pull up a copy of every drivers license I have had. The information? Forgetting for a second that it's mostly printed on the ID already, any of you that look at you ID an see a magnetic strip, your data is there. We use it for our electronic ticketing program, Instead of having an officer retype all the info, he just swipes the license through the reader and the info is filled in for him. This is not new and I'm sure would just serve as a way to standardize the data structure between the states, which is not a bad thing.

• A Threat to Freedom.

"Your Papers, Please" is not a phrase that sits well will freedom-loving Americans. A national ID card system flies in the face of everything we as Americans believe in. Across the country, the individual states are rising-up and saying 'no' to REAL ID. Now is the time for we citizens to stand-up for our fundamental rights and add our voice to the chorus.
What Do We Want From The Senate?

Again, nothing new here. Most states rquire you to prove your identity already. The states that are 'rising up' aren't doing it for freedom, they are doing it because they haven't already converted to digital IDs like the bulk of states have.

 

[Halifirien]

This is one of those things that could be horribly abused and subject us all to amazing invasions of privacy. Unfortunately, this is also one of the things I really can't get worked up about because it really is time to start standardizing some of this stuff.

That's one reason why I tend to look askance when people push the idea of federalism and states' rights (besides sometimes wondering if they're racists pining for the days when black people couldn't use their water fountains), since the information age has shrunk the country quite a bit. It's like one state bitching about community standards of decency about something on the Internet.

No easy answers on this one, really. The cost is staggering, but it needs to be done eventually. I'm pretty indifferent to this one.

 

[crookedmidget]

I got news for you, this is all out there already. I do a lot of computer work for court systems here in ohio. PO's have shown me the State database where they can search for a name, and pull up a copy of every drivers license I have had. The information? Forgetting for a second that it's mostly printed on the ID already, any of you that look at you ID an see a magnetic strip, your data is there. We use it for our electronic ticketing program, Instead of having an officer retype all the info, he just swipes the license through the reader and the info is filled in for him. This is not new and I'm sure would just serve as a way to standardize the data structure between the states, which is not a bad thing.

The issue is that there are disparate information pools coming together. The argument could be made that your local supermarket has all your shopping habits cataloged. They know your name, address, phone number and what kind of pizza you like in the summer. This is fine, it's an opt-in system and they throw a couple bucks of savings your way to encourage you to use their system. But what if your shopping habits were combined with your DMV information? One would be tempted to keep an eye on you after you bought beer to make sure you don't drink and drive; for the public safety's sake!

There's a growing trend to think that aggregated data is the holy grail in understanding the probability of someone doing something. Have you tried to buy multiple packs of cold medicine (that is now no longer on the shelf for the general public to access)? Good luck, you're put into a system that logs the sales of cold medicines to prevent someone from getting massive amounts in a single swipe. Obviously someone buying 5 (my arbitrary number, but you get the point) packs of cold medicine is cooking Methamphetamine! If you're an avid shooter and want to buy gunpowder in bulk (which is restricted) so you can reload your own ammo, you're shit out of luck, because you're probably a terrorist.

This brings us to the crux of the problem. The measures proposed don't actually achieve the goals they're trying to realize. RealID is expensive, bureaucratic, and ripe for abuse. Restricting everyday citizens in the hopes you prevent something bad from happening is the wrong answer in a free country.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm reminded of Ben Franklin's line,(paraphrased)"He who is willing to give up his freedom for security will receive neither."

 

[crookedmidget]

A very interesting writeup on the topic. Numerous links embedded in the article, please visit the source for more information.

Source: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...alfes-law-real-id-more-crime-less-safety.html

Analysis: Metcalfe's Law + Real ID = more crime, less safety

By Jon Stokes | Published: January 19, 2008 - 08:35AM CT

We have a saying in this business: 'Privacy and security are a zero-sum game.'" Thus spake security consultant Ed Giorgio in a widely-quoted New Yorker article on the US intelligence community's plans to vacuum up and sift through everything that flies across the wires. But Giorgio is wrong—catastrophically wrong. The story of Fidencio Estrada, a drug runner who bribed Florida Customs agent Rafael Pacheco to (among other things) access multiple federal law enforcement databases on his behalf, suggests that when it comes to the government collecting data on innocent civilians for law enforcement purposes, privacy and security are essentially the same thing.

The factual background in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals' recent decision to uphold a lower court's conviction of Estrada details how in early 2000, Pacheco accessed DHS's billion-record Treasury Enforcement Communications System (TECS) database looking for any information that the feds had on Estrada. (Hat tip to CNET's Declan McCullough, whose blog post brought this story to my attention.) Pacheco also went into the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database in order to dig up information on the warrants that were out for Estrada's arrest. Pacheco then fed the info back to Estrada, who was better able to elude law enforcement in as he plied his narcotics trade.

Estrada and Pacheco were eventually busted, sentenced, and are currently doing time for their crimes, but their story shows exactly why the United States' headlong rush to build government databases full of data on noncriminals (i.e., mere suspects, like OneDOJ, and the completely innocent, like Real ID) are such a spectacularly awful idea. All it takes is one bad apple with the right level of access, and the entire database is compromised.
With great (network) power comes great vulnerability

Here's an ugly prediction that you can take to the bank: as the amount of data that the feds collect on innocent civilians grows, so will the number of people who are victims of crimes that were made possible by unauthorized access to a government database. I'm not just talking about identity theft, though that is a huge danger with Real ID, but violent crimes as well. As I explained in the OneDOJ post linked above, this prediction is just Metcalfe's Law at work:

This is, of course, a fundamental problem inherent in the very nature of any massive, centralized government data-sharing plan that spans multiple agencies and connects untold numbers of state and federal law enforcement officers: the usefulness of such a system to any one individual (a white hat or a black hat) grows roughly with the square of the number of participants who are using it to share data (Metcalfe's law). So the more white hats that any of these programs manage to connect to each other, the more useful the network as a whole will be to the small handful of black hats who gain access to it at any point.

That such databases will be "useful" to black hats means any number of things—useful for identity thieves, and useful for terrorists who seek to impersonate lawful citizens.

While I'm citing laws and trends from the world of computing that shortly will have a direct impact on all of our ability to carry out our lives in relative safety, let me bring up two more trends worth factoring into our deteriorating privacy/security equation: the rapidly diving cost-per-bit of mass storage and the increasing amount of bandwidth available on networks both public and private.

So the government wants to collect tons of detailed data on citizens in these large databases; meanwhile, the speed at which an attacker could siphon off that data is increasing, as is the frightening but real possibility that ever-larger swaths of that database can fit onto a single lost or purloined hard drive.

But perhaps all this talk of government databases squeezed onto hard drives that then fall into the wrong hands is just fear-mongering, and that's probably best left to professionals.