Relic Weapons just aren't that great...

[Dowzer]

Yeah. You know how strong his boost is? Naturally THF is useful for Jailer of Love because you can steal the boost to WS :wacko: Because its completely beneficial to keep the boost on for the THF to steal it 1/5 of the time every 5 min, right?

I never said it was beneficial to leave Boost on, quit putting words in my mouth. And yes I've seen how hard Jlo hits for.

I have no idea about sea. How were those THFs able to steal it? I'm guessing it could have been stolen before anyone had a chance to dispel.

Either way, your precious SAM can't compare to that kind of damage.

 

[Uzor]

I never said it was beneficial to leave Boost on, quit putting words in my mouth. And yes I've seen how hard Jlo hits for.

I have no idea about sea. How were those THFs able to steal it? I'm guessing it could have been stolen before anyone had a chance to dispel.

Either way, your precious SAM can't compare to that kind of damage.

I never put words in your mouth. I said that its not beneficial to leave Boost on for THF's to leave it, which makes it harder to pull those kinds of damage.

And no, SAM is still better since THF need to steal J'los boost effect in order to do anything close to that kind of damage. Just because someone shows a pretty picture of a THF doing 3k damage Mercy Stroke doesn't mean its anything close to the norm.

Last I checked, JAs fired off faster than Dispel, assuming equal reaction time on both the part of the THF and the presumed-RDM. A dispeller should still try to Dispel without waiting (can't wait too long anyway, it's used - or hopefully gets wasted on a shadow or possibly a whiff - on the next hit after all), but a THF should still *try* to ace them out and nab the effect for themselves.

Yes, but assuming the THF have 100% TP, it would require him to stand in steal range, and then steal boost soon as it goes on, which would still only be a 20% chance to steal it (60% with capped merits), so its still not that common.

Pretty much the norm for the last year and a half I've been killing Tiamat. Pretty much the same goes for the only two other LS that kill her. Obviously all three groups have used one or two tanks for extended or all parts of the fight. If I had my choice, I'd take three tanks. Its pretty much failsafe and you can let your DDs go all out without ever really worrying about hate loss.

Not really sure how you qualify as a Tiamat expert either.

Anyways, carry on this awsome conversation about how good mnk relic is...

two tanks with shadows will allow for precisely the same amount of damage spammage that three tanks would. Hate isn't stacked on PLD's, its individual. Two tanks with capped hate will have exactly the same amount of hate that three, four or even five tanks with capped hate have. So something about the bolded statement makes me think you either just leached your Tiamats, or have no idea how hate actually works.

 

[jamal]

two tanks with shadows will allow for precisely the same amount of damage spammage that three tanks would. Hate isn't stacked on PLD's, its individual. Two tanks with capped hate will have exactly the same amount of hate that three, four or even five tanks with capped hate have. So something about the bolded statement makes me think you either just leached your Tiamats, or have no idea how hate actually works.

The reason for multiple people with hate isn't to withstand nukes as much as it is to be prepared for Roars...If you have 1-2 tanks with mages getting quite a bit of hate build-up over time, then it or they are roared close together, which does happen...then you'll experience movement towards the mages. This is why with 1-2 tanks you hold back, not because 1-2 tanks can't sustain the hate over time. This is also why he calls it failsafe, because with 1-2 tanks, you're running the risk of consecutive roars hurting you much more than with 3.
Anyone DD'ing on Tiamat would have to log more often to retain a low level of hate if only one or two tanks is viable. NIN/DRK can also gain hate back MUCH quicker than plds. PLDs merely sustain it over time, but when /nin, its much more difficult to regain the lost hate. I'm sure Zoolander was aware of this, just didn't feel the need to spell it out. This is why he said he would prefer it, not that it couldn't be done without.

 

[Zoolander]

two tanks with shadows will allow for precisely the same amount of damage spammage that three tanks would. Hate isn't stacked on PLD's, its individual. Two tanks with capped hate will have exactly the same amount of hate that three, four or even five tanks with capped hate have. So something about the bolded statement makes me think you either just leached your Tiamats, or have no idea how hate actually works.

Yea, it could be that. Or it could be that you completely missed the point of what I said. I've been a main tank in one of the more successful LS on the server, you honestly think I leached my Tiamats or don't know how hate works? Jamal pretty much explained the concepts that I assumed anyone with Tiamat experience would have understood.