returning/windower

[Skaw]

So, you agree that they can terminate your account without reason, and you agree to take no action if they do.

...and then you think you can get your account back by legal action?

Unfortunantly, if you're banned for windower, you're not banned without reason. That doesn't exactly apply to the situation. The without reason claus is mostly for when the game goes under. There have never been any MMO bannings for no reason.

 

[Bajaratt]

So, you agree that they can terminate your account without reason, and you agree to take no action if they do.

...and then you think you can get your account back by legal action?

They can terminate your account just because it's a tuesday if they feel like it, but they cannot do anything illegal, like spy on your computer. You wouldn't be able to get your account back if they hacked into your computer and found out you used windower so they banned you, but you would be able to sue them for hacking into your computer.

 

[decidence]

#1 They can see your using Windower
#2 If you get banned for ONLY using Windower (no plugins) and without a doubt have never said anything about using it in game where SE could find out you were using it legally then you are entitled to a lot of money like Skaw said because they obviously used #1 which is illegal without you agreeing to let SE scan your computer for 3rd PT software.

 

[Courtney]

Unfortunantly, if you're banned for windower, you're not banned without reason. That doesn't exactly apply to the situation. The without reason claus is mostly for when the game goes under. There have never been any MMO bannings for no reason.

Of course not. But they are under no obligation to give you a reason. Most of the bannings here have been for fleehacking, but they don't say that (or so the banned people have said), they're just banned.

So far, (again according to the people who have been banned) no amount of trying has managed to get SE to give anyone a reason why they were banned, except that they've violated the ToS...

SE may be liable if they admit to doing something illegal, but they don't need a reason, and they don't tell you why you're banned...

 

[Skaw]

Of course not. But they are under no obligation to give you a reason. Most of the bannings here have been for fleehacking, but they don't say that (or so the banned people have said), they're just banned.

So far, (again according to the people who have been banned) no amount of trying has managed to get SE to give anyone a reason why they were banned, except that they've violated the ToS...

And whats a violation of the ToS? "No Reason" isn't a violation, it's SE holding up the clause specifically.

If you know exactly what was violated, despite SE not responding with details, you've got enough information to go with any action you please. Sit there, knowing you did something wrong. Or press them, knowing they did something worse.

Think of it like this. You get a job where you're under contract. A clause states you must not have any religious symbols on you at any time, or be visible with them any where.

Your house has a cross(or star of david if thats your thing.) You get fired for it, even though they cannot legally know you have something in your house, without setting up a hidden camera system without your knowledge.

It's the same thing, and in both cases, the little guy would win.

For an example, fleehacking would be like bringing the cross to work.

 

[Strid]

Apparently, windower sometimes has an effect of making you run a hair faster, at times. Which is a good backdrop when they want to ban someone running a windower without saying, "You're banned for running a windower program." Probability of it happening is probably slim to none but considering the time and effort it takes to get anywhere in this game, is it really worth the risk?

 

[Courtney]

And whats a violation of the ToS? "No Reason" isn't a violation, it's SE holding up the clause specifically.

If you know exactly what was violated, despite SE not responding with details, you've got enough information to go with any action you please. Sit there, knowing you did something wrong. Or press them, knowing they did something worse.

And you have the finances for an international lawsuit against a company (which has indemnified itself against its actions by having you agree to them)?

You're that sure of how windower operates that you'd be willing to spend that kind of cash to bet that it sends no trace at all to the server itself (and some of the plugins definitely give traces that they're there...).

 

[Skaw]

Apparently, windower sometimes has an effect of making you run a hair faster, at times. Which is a good backdrop when they want to ban someone running a windower without saying, "You're banned for running a windower program." Probability of it happening is probably slim to none but considering the time and effort it takes to get anywhere in this game, is it really worth the risk?

I've never heard of this alleged "speed boost" until people started to get banned. The worth of the claim pretty much speaks for itself.

And you have the finances for an international lawsuit against a company (which has indemnified itself against its actions by having you agree to them)?

You're that sure of how windower operates that you'd be willing to spend that kind of cash to bet that it sends no trace at all to the server itself (and some of the plugins definitely give traces that they're there...).

We're not talking about the plugins. Windower doesn't interact with FFXI as much as it interacts with Direct X in the first place.

 

[Courtney]

We're not talking about the plugins. Windower doesn't interact with FFXI as much as it interacts with Direct X in the first place.

That doesn't answer the question.

In addition, you also agree not to disclose any communications with SEI everytime you login. If they tell you you're suspended for a violation of the ToS, you can't even use that against them...

 

[Skaw]

That doesn't answer the question.

In addition, you also agree not to disclose any communications with SEI everytime you login. If they tell you you're suspended for a violation of the ToS, you can't even use that against them...

Once you're banned for the violation, you're no longer under contract. You're free to spew forth whatever you want.

 

[Strid]

I've never heard of this alleged "speed boost" until people started to get banned. The worth of the claim pretty much speaks for itself.

A wonderful example is in Chasym's lil' thread comming right out of the GM's mouth(fingers, sue me). If there is need for any more proof that they actually might look at it that way, I got nothing. Like I said before, and I'm guessing you missed it, it's probably a slim to none chance of them actually calling you out on it but that chance is there no matter how small and shouldn't go unconsidered. Just because the GM calls it a speed boost, doesn't mean that is what it is. It's about like a cop abusing his power and word, slightly.

 

[Chasym]

I've never heard of this alleged "speed boost" until people started to get banned. The worth of the claim pretty much speaks for itself.



We're not talking about the plugins. Windower doesn't interact with FFXI as much as it interacts with Direct X in the first place.

you never heard about it because those who knew didnt want the program compramised, it was never widley spoken of till my i quit post, hackers have known about it for years.

 

[Skaw]

A wonderful example is in Chasym's lil' thread comming right out of the GM's mouth(fingers, sue me). If there is need for any more proof that they actually might look at it that way, I got nothing. Like I said before, and I'm guessing you missed it, it's probably a slim to none chance of them actually calling you out on it but that chance is there no matter how small and shouldn't go unconsidered. Just because the GM calls it a speed boost, doesn't mean that is what it is. It's about like a cop abusing his power and word, slightly.

They also say using third party applications encourages RMT. A pretty desperate line to draw.

you never heard about it because those who knew didnt want the program compramised, it was never widley spoken of till my i quit post, hackers have known about it for years.

Quit jabbering on. Your comments are worthless, having forfeited any idea of formal input on the topic with your actions.

 

[Bajaratt]

you never heard about it because those who knew didnt want the program compramised, it was never widley spoken of till my i quit post, hackers have known about it for years.

That doesn't make any sense, given that there are arguments about how the windower is cheating every few months. If this was a real issue, it would have been brought up long ago, if even as a warning by the creator to the users. It'd be stupid not to have "hey, when using this illegal program, you MIGHT run slightly faster for a few seconds and SE can detect that, so use at your own risk."

The timing of the release of the information is way too convenient to be easily believable, it's far more likely it's just a cover for people to hide their hacking.

 

[Strid]

They also say using third party applications encourages RMT. A pretty desperate line to draw.

I agree, but unfortunatly it's their line to draw. I don't agree with either, but their should be better reasons given.

 

[dedalius]

Actually, I have noticed a speed bug. My computer runs fast (no idea why, too lazy to figure it out.) And I tend to run a little bit faster than other people. Believe me or not, I don't nor have I ever speedhacked.

 

[Juvenile]

im still using the fleetools, they cant touch me

 

[Chasym]

That doesn't make any sense, given that there are arguments about how the windower is cheating every few months. If this was a real issue, it would have been brought up long ago, if even as a warning by the creator to the users. It'd be stupid not to have "hey, when using this illegal program, you MIGHT run slightly faster for a few seconds and SE can detect that, so use at your own risk."

The timing of the release of the information is way too convenient to be easily believable, it's far more likely it's just a cover for people to hide their hacking.

being that the creators are not around anymore and have moved on being too busy coding for vista and what not, the new guys even have trouble putting the detectability and speed claims to rest, they cant give an exact answer on it from what i seen browsing around there.
I stopped going there when the original creators left and passed on the torch to someone else. cute to find a post about me over there too lol.

most people who use windower just download and use not knowing anything about it except that it windows and has plug ins, they didnt code it or care who did. They are just users, its been said before that while its there its barley noticeable. no reason for anyone to notice besides someone who looks for that thing, A GM.
SE has probly known longer (lol cant believe im sayin that) than any hacker i know of with that little thing.
its hard to be detected if no ones paying attention like i said.
and windower has always been a "use at your own risk" program.

and skaw i can see my comments are worthless to you since you called what i said BS and when someone said the same thing right after that it wasnt BS.
my actions may have dissolved my rep as a player, but what i state is true if you care to believe it or not, and if not i hope you end up in the situation that you claim you can sue your way out of. Because i just dont see that happening.

 

[Taurothar]

Honestly, if SE bans for windower alone, they'll lose 50% of their fanbase to other MMOs. To me, I gladly risk losing my account for the ability to do OTHER things on my pc while looking for party, or waiting on people for something. SE seems happy with fucking everyone over, so we'll see what they end up doing. The day they ban me I'll just laugh, because I don't have any problem with them enforcing their ToS.

Btw, I've talked to GMs about hackers WHILE running windower with plugins on, and I've talked in /l about my windower while in the conversation with the GM. So they obviously don't care or don't look for the program unless there's a direct hacking claim.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Honestly, if SE bans for windower alone, they'll lose 50% of their fanbase to other MMOs.

They know that, thats why they dont to a mass ban.

Notice how a mere 250 accounts got suspended this time around while thousands got the boot? Better to try to scare it outta people than lose their players