Right to Secede?

[Dejavu]

I will form some responses later but i was looking to open a discussion about whether or not a state has the right to leave the United States if it wants to. I am asking this because there has been some secession talks recently in several states and i would like to see where everyone stands on this issue. My guess is that there are probably people on both sides of this issue.

 

[Mirewen]

lol my guild was kinda talking about that last night. The majority of them want Texas to leave. I would love it if Montreal did, although they did try before, they would have succeeded if their terms weren't "we're leaving you with our massive debt".

 

[Grandphoenix]

Texas has the right to secede and/or split into 5 different states iirc.

 

[Skaw]

The best part about Texas' threat and up in armsness over Obamas decisions, is that they let Bush tear apart the constituion for the better part of 8 years without a peep.

Texas, fuck yeah! Always looking out for the American Way!

Personally, I'm fine with a state seceding if it thinks the freedoms of it's people have been fucked with. But not when it's just a hypocritical whine and bitchfest over Republicans losing power.

 

[StanDarsh]

Fuck that, if Texas secedes I'm moving.

 

[Dejavu]

Texas has the right to secede and/or split into 5 different states iirc.

Yea actually that's not true according to the supreme court... according to Texas vs. White Texas gave up the right to secede when it joined the union and when the did secede around the time of the civil war when they joined the confederate states it was in fact invalid.

The best part about Texas' threat and up in armsness over Obamas decisions, is that they let Bush tear apart the constituion for the better part of 8 years without a peep.

Texas, fuck yeah! Always looking out for the American Way!

yea i disagree with not being against the bush policies but i would like to keep the questions more along line of if the right does/should exist seeing as there was a dramatic shift on this subject when the south tried to secede during the time on Lincoln. Before that staying in the Union was considered voluntary and mutually beneficial.

In a letter to James Madison in 1816 Jefferson reiterated his support of the right of secession by saying, “If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation ... to a continuance in union ... I have no hesitation in saying, let us separate.”

Fuck that, if Texas secedes I'm moving.

me too... to Texas

 

[Skaw]

me too... to Texas

Too bad their internet is the same as the rest of the worlds.

 

[Alberic]

It'd be funny if Texas DID try to secede >.> Its economy, government, and infrastructure aren't exactly independent of the rest of us. Enjoy your lack of federal funds Texas, it went real well for Louisiana all those years

 

[Dejavu]

and federal funds come from?... oh!!! i know this one!!! FAERIES!

or was it taxes...

 

[Aaleel]

I don't see how a state could be self sufficient in this day and age, with no federal aid for anything like infrastructure, or anything.

Any natural disaster like a hurricane, no federal aid.

Would have to police its own boarders, and you already have criminals from Mexico coming into border states and kidnapping people, and Texas would be standing on it's own, no national guard or anything.

Would the US cut off any trade of goods with them? Would they have to get their own currency?

I just don't see it.

Do they have the right? Would depend on the charter. But I doubt a state could pull it off standing totally on their own without having outrageous taxes, fees, etc.

 

[Trippyhippy]

it would create more problems than it would solve.

 

[Dejavu]

I don't see how a state could be self sufficient in this day and age, with no federal aid for anything like infrastructure, or anything.

Any natural disaster like a hurricane, no federal aid.

Would have to police its own boarders, and you already have criminals from Mexico coming into border states and kidnapping people, and Texas would be standing on it's own, no national guard or anything.

Would the US cut off any trade of goods with them? Would they have to get their own currency?

I just don't see it.

Do they have the right? Would depend on the charter. But I doubt a state could pull it off standing totally on their own without having outrageous taxes, fees, etc.

It wouldn't be easy by any means but the government cannot give anything that it already has not taken. The only real issue is that the pool that you are taking from is much smaller. But at the same time your risks for disaster is much smaller as well. Currency would also be an issue but there is nothing that says that a country must use their own currency. I would say look at the EU but that is a bad example because they are somewhat in the process of making themselves one country and turning what used to be countries into states.

Whether or not trade between the US and Texas would happen is an issue but it would almost have to seeing as Texas has most of the Oil reserves in the US along with being a major food producer.

It does not depend on the state at this point. Texas has always affirmed its right to leave if it wanted to but the Federal Government does not recognize that right.

 

[Dejavu]

it would create more problems than it would solve.

I am trying to keep the argument away from if it is a good idea or not and more along the lines of if it is a right of the state to do so or not.

 

[Alberic]

and federal funds come from?... oh!!! i know this one!!! FAERIES!

or was it taxes...

Taxes from the entire Union, not a single state? >.>

I think someone needs to post a lot less political threads, these are getting really obnoxious. Oh I know, I HATE THE UNITED STATES HURRRRR~

Now I'm one of the cool kids right?

 

[Dejavu]

Taxes from the entire Union, not a single state? >.>

I think someone needs to post a lot less political threads, these are getting really obnoxious. Oh I know, I HATE THE UNITED STATES HURRRRR~

Now I'm one of the cool kids right?

Ok... here are the scenarios under secession...

Currently ... Taxes from 50 states go to 50 states... each state more or less takes care of itself.

After secession... Taxes from 49 states go to 49 states... taxes from Texas go to Texas... each state still more or less takes care of itself.

I don't hate the United States actually... i hate the direction that it is taking. If that requires me to leave the United States and be a part of something better... so be it. The ideas that made the United States great are what are important and lately lost... not the physical land itself.

 

[Skaw]

Taxes from the entire Union, not a single state? >.>

Taxes are also distributed state to state depending on who needs what.

Texas gets less than it gives, currently. I think it's something like 96 cents on the dollar, being one of the few red states that is under the 1:1 ratio line coincidentally. Financially, Texas could theoretically survive on it's own. Whether or not it has the necessary means to is another problem. But then again, if it does secede. Those that still want to be Americans will move the fuck out. Which means less taxes funding Texasia.

 

[Mirewen]

So... do you guys want Quebec?

 

[Dejavu]

So... do you guys want Quebec?

No...

 

[Lyall]

\

Whether or not trade between the US and Texas would happen is an issue but it would almost have to seeing as Texas has most of the Oil reserves in the US along with being a major food producer.

Because the US has never, ever taken another country by force for oil, amirite? Let someone try to roll with the linkshell bank when the members all know where he lives, see what happens.

Hope they don't have nice windows, or a car, or anything.

 

[Aaleel]

The biggest expenditures of any government are entitlement programs and military.

Texas going to handle it's own medicare, medicade, welfare, etc. Going to design & build or buy it's own tanks, jets, etc.

But as far as their right. They were a former republic, so in theory they would retain the right to secede. But also if there was nothing in the charter or whatever was signed that brought them into the US that says they have the right, then they probably don't legally.

Nothing can stop them from leaving, but in theory nothing would stop the US from running them over and forcing a surrender on terms worse than what they think is so bad now.

But like I said, I don't see any way Texas could operate and defend itself outside of Federal funds without having unbearable fees and taxes. The state budget is probably just breaking even or in the red now with Federal money.